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  1. #281
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    any nerf that occurs on the PTR whether it is announced or not announced is by definition not stealth, because it is assumed *anything* can happen on PTR/Beta

  2. #282
    Why does Icy-Veins has a different Statpriority Order then your guide ?

  3. #283
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    stats are very wibbly-wobbly

  4. #284
    not sure if im doing it wrong but i grabbed sac talent and im stacking 320 mastery gems in yellow sockets int mastery in red and hit mastery in blue my dps has gone up quiet a bit still not sure about if mastery is putting more damage out normally over int seems to scale better

  5. #285
    The only time you EVER want to use mastery gems or even int/mastery gems is when mastery has a scale factor that is more than half of Ints. For example, if int had a scale factor of 3.0, if mastery scaled at >1.5 you would gain by using mastery or int/mastery. Socket bonuses allow for some non-pure int gems by providing bonus stats when colors are matched. In the case where the extra stats makes up the difference, you'd match socket colors.

    I highly doubt that mastery is worth more than half as much as int, but the only way to know is if you sim your own toon yourself.

  6. #286
    Keyboard Turner monello's Avatar
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    Hello m8 , i have some doubts regarding the statistics that follow and their cap, I'll post the link of my setup, can you tell me what you think?
    I currently have the following this : Int> Hit> Mastery> Crit> Haste

    Atm can't link because i am not allowed , you can find my pg on europe armory name : Ðarkstorm

    thanks so much

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by monello View Post
    Hello m8 , i have some doubts regarding the statistics that follow and their cap, I'll post the link of my setup, can you tell me what you think?
    I currently have the following this : Int> Hit> Mastery> Crit> Haste

    Atm can't link because i am not allowed , you can find my pg on europe armory name : Ðarkstorm

    thanks so much
    In general Int>Hit>Mastery>Crit>Haste is a rule of thumb (not always true) for when you're running Sacrifice and are able to cleave with havoc more than a few times.

    Int>Hit>Haste>Mastery>=Crit is the rule of thumb for a pure single target fight when you're running an observer with supremacy.


    Those are obviously not always true and it completely depends on your gear, so the only way to know which is better is to sim yourself in your gear.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-21 at 01:29 PM ----------

    It should also be noted that the difference on a pure single target fight is actually really, really small between the two setups. It's just that running sac places a higher priority on using your resources at the best possible times. The second setup is a bit easier in that there's less of a priority on when you use your resources. (Though it still exists)

  8. #288
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    It's just that running sac places a higher priority on using your resources at the best possible times. The second setup is a bit easier in that there's less of a priority on when you use your resources. (Though it still exists)
    This is true.
    But I think a GoSac+Mast setup is the best choice on almost all the fights, even in single target, as long as you manage precisely your embers & buffs.
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  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by Zumzumzum View Post
    This is true.
    But I think a GoSac+Mast setup is the best choice on almost all the fights, even in single target, as long as you manage precisely your embers & buffs.
    I agree. The only time I think I'd really ever run an observer would be on a single target fight that had a lot of movement.

  10. #290
    Keyboard Turner monello's Avatar
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    thx m8 for reply , now afther your suggest i am using this config : Int>Hit>Haste>Mastery>=Crit and it seems to be the best for me , doing +2kdps on dummy .

  11. #291
    It seems like I'll have to be on add duty for heroic Protectors in ToES and I have a feeling Destro will be much better than Affli at the job so I'm gonna try it tomorrow. I don't have that much experience with the spec so I'm not quite sure what stats to go for. Mastery should be king after Int & Hit, but then what? Remember it's about pure burst damage but I'll still be able to get at least one Chaos Bolt and Shadowburn on each add due to good Ember regen. I was thinking Haste>Crit but I should probably maintain some Crit, right? Armory in signature.

  12. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by Bonkura View Post
    It seems like I'll have to be on add duty for heroic Protectors in ToES and I have a feeling Destro will be much better than Affli at the job so I'm gonna try it tomorrow. I don't have that much experience with the spec so I'm not quite sure what stats to go for. Mastery should be king after Int & Hit, but then what? Remember it's about pure burst damage but I'll still be able to get at least one Chaos Bolt and Shadowburn on each add due to good Ember regen. I was thinking Haste>Crit but I should probably maintain some Crit, right? Armory in signature.
    Do you have feedback about this fight using Destro spec? I appreciate it!

    I have a doubt... I didn´t fight with this boss yet, but when the little adds dies, generate ember? I watched some Affliction videos in ToES, and I haven´t notice about shard recovery with Drain Soul. But I´m not sure!

    When I play with Destro spec, I like to reforge Mastery>Crit>Haste (GoSac)... But is better to take Zumzum opinion... =)

  13. #293
    Basically an add with 1.5-2M(?) health (in 10-man) keeps spawning and you have to kill it before it reaches the boss which has to happen in a time frame of around 15-20 seconds before the next add comes. In theory Destro should be much better at killing these than Affli because the spec has almost no rampup time since you can finish off every add with a Shadowburn to get an Ember.

    You'll use a rotation of something like Immolate -> Conflagrate (glyphed) -> Chaos Bolt > Incinerate -> Incinerate -> Conflagrate -> 1-3x Incinerate -> Shadowburn. Then the add will be dead because you will have a damage increase buff most of the fight.

    Affli is still good at this because you can refresh dots on boss with SB:SS between every add and still use 2-3 Haunts after putting up dots on the add with SB:SS. It's just the rampup time on the dots (mainly Agony) and the small time of using MG/DS that makes me considering going Destro.

    I haven't tried Destro but I will do tonight and I'll probably go for a Mastery/Haste build if I don't get any other suggestions.

    The plan is to be able to solo the adds for the first phase and then get some help from a dot class or hunter later on. We've had 2 people doing it all the time and been owned by the enrage timer so we have to rework our tactic.

  14. #294
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    When I play with Destro spec, I like to reforge Mastery>Crit>Haste (GoSac)... But is better to take Zumzum opinion... =)
    That's my priority too
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  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by Zumzumzum View Post
    That's my priority too
    Would you still go for it if you were on adds for Protectors heroic?

  16. #296
    http://simulationcraft.org/505/Raid_T14H.html (Simmed Live)

    http://simulationcraft.org/510/Raid_T14H.html (Simmed PTR)

    Of course these could change. However looking at the changes to Destro coming ,its showing a 6k increase compared to its live ranking. And it's closing in on Demo.

  17. #297
    I saw this changes last week, but I'm not sure if this change is because gear or conflagrate changes!

  18. #298
    Hello,

    This thread has been very helpful to me, but I am still confused. My understanding is that you guys consider GoSup to be a more forgiving build and slightly ahead on single target fights, especially if there is a lot of movement. I raid lead, so I prefer forgiving builds. You guys say, with this build, I should go for Haste->Mastery->Crit as my secondaries.

    When I run the latest version of Simcraft, after reforging to Haste, it is telling me that Crit is my most important stat. Do you guys believe Simcraft is simply making an error? Or it is something strange about my particular item level? Here's my armory but I sometimes log out in PvP gear so it may not help:
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Ashin/advanced

    Also, could someone explain the reasoning - why does Haste go from dead last to first place if you use GoSup instead of GoSac?

    Thank you!
    Ashin, Stormreaver
    South of Heaven

  19. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by ashin View Post
    Hello,

    This thread has been very helpful to me, but I am still confused. My understanding is that you guys consider GoSup to be a more forgiving build and slightly ahead on single target fights, especially if there is a lot of movement. I raid lead, so I prefer forgiving builds. You guys say, with this build, I should go for Haste->Mastery->Crit as my secondaries.

    When I run the latest version of Simcraft, after reforging to Haste, it is telling me that Crit is my most important stat. Do you guys believe Simcraft is simply making an error? Or it is something strange about my particular item level? Here's my armory but I sometimes log out in PvP gear so it may not help:
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Ashin/advanced

    Also, could someone explain the reasoning - why does Haste go from dead last to first place if you use GoSup instead of GoSac?

    Thank you!
    It's about 2 different sources of damage. With the mastery/crit build and sac you're doing everything you can to buff your 2 high dpct abilities, Chaos Bolt and Shadowburn. By buffing those, when you havoc you gain a large amount of damage, while haste has no real affect on havoc'd abilities.

    With the haste build you're basically saying that you don't care as much about Chaos Bolt and Shadowburn, and instead only really care about casting stuff faster and genning mana faster. AKA the haste build focuses more on incinerate damage and pumping out more.

    The reason the haste build is more forgiving and good for single target is that you're shifting damage off of one or two spells and onto what you're casting 60% of the time. (totally made up percentage). By shifting damage off of those two spells, you lose less damage when you royally screw up the timing of casting those spells. That's the primary reason. It's good for single target because you're not really putting any effort into buffing your cleave and are focusing on single target.

    The reason the haste build is good for movement is two fold. One, you're using supremacy, so your damage that comes from the grimoire is doing full damage all the time, while if you're running around a lot you're not. Two, is that because you have more haste, if there's stutterstep like movement, you can potentially get more casts off than you would if you were stacking haste/mastery, which means that not only are you spending less mana on fel flames, but you're genning more.


    Hope that helps.



    PS. It's more forgiving purely for single target. Once more adds come into play, and especially if those adds will give 2 embers back if killed by your shadowburn, then you definitely want to use mastery/crit and sac.

  20. #300
    Thank you - yes it is helpful. But now I think maybe I should not be bothering with haste/gosup at all..

    Also I am still curious why, after I reforged to Haste, simcraft is now saying Crit is the most important stat for me (still using gosup).
    Ashin, Stormreaver
    South of Heaven

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