The human soul - it's time to get to the bottom of this

[Tzalix]

At our current level of science we cannot prove that such a thing as a "soul" exists, but neither can we prove that it doesn't, much like the afterlife and God. To discuss wether it's a possibility or not can be interesting, but to try to bring in "facts" in such a discussion is pointless.

[semaphore]

Estimations are not proof.

There's no proof in science.

That's what's known as the observable universe.

My mistake. Misunderstood what the conversation was about because I just read that one line

[Deleted]

even then it's only a theory.

afaik right now the idea is that if all the mass in the universe is exactly at a particular critical threshold, the universe must be finite and if it's above or below that threshold it must be infinite. right now with the inclusion of dark matter and dark energy we may have exactly critical threshold of mass in the universe and this suggests a finite universe.

that's still hotly debated theory though, or have i missed breaking news? i almost hope i have.

i dosent really work that way thought, if we would shot a rocket at x speed to an y destination, the rocket could never get to that destination, and as mostly every galaxy has 70% more ''gravity'' that what the actual mass of the calax is we have lot to bunder

(sorry about me bad english :P )

[Deleted]

After cheese is made it has almost 0 lactose, that's why lactose intolerant people can many times eat cheese with no effects.

Depends on how long you store it. I was told, since I'm lactose intolerant, that it needs to have been stored "long", around 10-12 months.

Most cheese is around 6 months, I think. Your average storebought cheese.

[OrcsRLame]

You observe a universe that constantly undergoes entropy and operates on the principle of cause and effect -- both of which affect all things in the Universe -- and you apply those same concepts to the beginning of the Universe. Of course your observations are true of the Universe as we currently exist in it, but there's no evidence at all that those same observations apply to the Universe before it even contained mass. Who knows what it was before it expanded? Who knows how long it existed (assuming there was such thing as time before it existed)? Who knows what set it off (assuming anything actually set it off)?

One thing is certain, the Universe when/before it started expanding was nothing like it is now. So to assume that the observations you make of the current Universe are relevant when/before it existed is bad reasoning.

I already said all that, just not in so many words. I'll summarize for you. If I'm wrong then the human race's understanding of space, time and physics, is complete shit. If existence works the way we think it does, (I'm using the term existence simply because it's more broad than universe) then I have come to a logical conclusion. If existence doesn't work the way we think it does, then this entire discussion is meaningless, because no one has the proper knowledge to even begin to make ignorant uneducated guesses at the subject matter.

[Gamdwelf]

Depends on how long you store it. I was told, since I'm lactose intolerant, that it needs to have been stored "long", around 10-12 months.

Most cheese is around 6 months, I think. Your average storebought cheese.

I work in a diary, sort of, and almost all the lactose is in the whey, and so there is very little in the solid cheese curds, yes some, but even fresh cheese can be eaten by lactose intolerant people. But I mean it really depends on the person.

Aging the cheese kills off almost all of the bacteria that are going to be eating the lactose, and so the aging process is killing the things that would reduce the amount of lactose in the cheese.

[semaphore]

The laws of physics say that existence is probabilistic in nature.

That's a very different kind of "random" to what people normally meant by the word.

[OrcsRLame]

That's just it. Space and time were not what they are now.

You don't know that. That's an even bigger assumption than any of the shit I've said.

Edit: Going to bed. Fucking people with your interesting threads. Damn I'm gonna be tired for D&D tonight...

[Deleted]

Human soul doesn't exist, chemicals & stuff
/thread

[jimlow]

Thousands of philosophers, scientists,and religions have spent lifetimes trying to figure this out. But no, we are gonna settle this today...on a wow forum...through a course of an afternoon...

[Albert the fish]

i dosent really work that way thought, if we would shot a rocket at x speed to an y destination, the rocket could never get to that destination, and as mostly every galaxy has 70% more ''gravity'' that what the actual mass of the calax is we have lot to bunder

(sorry about me bad english :P )

mass, not weight.
gravity has nothing to do with mass.

[Gheld]

That's a very different kind of "random" to what people normally meant by the word.

Well random as in circumstances beyond your control override even causality. We live in an illusionary playground of causality somewhere in the middle. The hand throws the ball. Delve any deeper and causality makes way to probability, how does the ball move?. But step back and the question becomes, What controls the hand? Does control even exist?

But to complete the flow-chart on the issue: Does control (free will, consciousness, etc) even exist?

If Yes: Then go on to step 2. If No: Then it is safe to assume that we can't effect change on the world around us to the degree that would be required to perform scientific scrutiny. That is to say that in order for our science to be valid, we must accept reality as it seems to be. We seem to have free will, which would mean that science must be done under the assumption that everything we observe is through the work of a freely operating and conscious mind.

[Fudge]

There's not a shred of evidence for this magic substance.

Nor an explanation for how everything was created from nothing.... Magic is just science we don't understand yet. ;-)

[Dendrek]

You don't know that. That's an even bigger assumption than any of the shit I've said.

Edit: Going to bed. Fucking people with your interesting threads. Damn I'm gonna be tired for D&D tonight...

No, that's pretty accurate. Space expands (it's a well known fact). Time is a component of space.

[Deleted]

No, it's based on the fact that there is absolutely no proof of anything like a soul, and plenty against it. Swing and a miss, friend.

Thousands of years thrown in the bottomless pit of proofs. It sure is a dry world we live in.

[Dendrek]

I already said all that, just not in so many words. I'll summarize for you. If I'm wrong then the human race's understanding of space, time and physics, is complete shit. If existence works the way we think it does, (I'm using the term existence simply because it's more broad than universe) then I have come to a logical conclusion. If existence doesn't work the way we think it does, then this entire discussion is meaningless, because no one has the proper knowledge to even begin to make ignorant uneducated guesses at the subject matter.

Did you ignore the part where I said the assumptions you can accurately make about the current Universe cannot necessarily be made about the Universe before it existed?

[MrPaladinGuy]

The answer is obvious.

Either wait till you die due to randomness or age, or kill yourself.

Then you'll have your answer.



Just make sure you realize that your consciousness can't imagine itself not existing, therefore, it's impossible to imagine not existing.

[Lily Crowley]

We have our consciousness, that is as close to a 'soul' as we are going to get. When we die, our consciousness dies with us. So no, I do not believe we have what we define as a soul, since I do not believe in heaver or hell either.

[Gheld]

No, that's pretty accurate. Space expands (it's a well known fact). Time is a component of space.

So then if space is expanding, reason stands that time is moving backwards

[Gamdwelf]

That's not entirely accurate.

If you look at it from a scientific point of view, then love, hate, enjoyment, and disappointment can be classified as chemical and electrical signals in the brain. It might be insubstantial, but it's still a substance.

OT: I don't have the faith to believe in something that I can't define or see.

See this is the problem you are allowed to say happiness is made with stuff, but will not even start to attempt to define the soul and say it does not exist.