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  1. #1

    MoP: Demonology Warlock Guide and First Week Gear List

    Beta - Build 16010
    To view this guide with proper formatting, Wowhead links, images and more, visit www.wowraids.org, or click here.

    Disclaimer:
    The game is currently still in beta. The information in this guide may change before Mists of Pandaria is released. I will endeavour to keep this guide updated as soon as possible after changes are made to the servers. Check back regularly to keep on top of changes to the class.

    The information in this guide would not be possible without the hard work of the people that develop Simcraft. This is based upon simulations and testing. Much of this information may change before release.

    To view this guide with proper formatting, Wowhead links, images and more, visit www.wowraids.org, or click here.


    Contents:

    0. Introduction
    1. Talents
    2. Glyphs
    3. Stats
    4. Gems
    5. Enchants
    6. Your Demon
    7. Spells and Abilities - Single Target
    8. Spells and Abilities - Multi Target and AoE
    9. Extra Tips
    10. Mists of Pandaria - Gearing up in Week 1
    Appendix 1 - Information for Level 85 Warlocks in 5.0.4



    Introduction

    The key change to this spec is the introduction of Demonic Fury as a resource. When you’re not in Meta, some of your spells generate this resource as you cast them. When you go into Meta, your spells all cost Demonic Fury, and it also drains at a constant rate of 6 per second, and the maximum you can have is 1000. Going into Metamorphosis gives you a significant damage boost and transforms your spells into different abilities. Metamorphosis also does not have a cooldown any more, which means you’re only limited by how much Demonic Fury you can generate, which gives you the option to decide when you want to activate Metamorphosis based upon the damage requirements of the fight.
    In its current state, Demonology offers strong single target damage and still retains its place as the king of AoE.
    This guide should teach you everything you need to know about the spec in order to play successfully.



    1. Talents

    In Mists of Pandaria, talents are no longer split into trees that have prerequisites. They also do not offer noticeable DPS gains, which means there is a lot more room for flexibility. Some encounters will have clear winners, whereas others it will simply boil down to your play style.


    Tier 1



    If you're going to be doing any AoE, you must take Harvest Life. This is your AoE filler spell. If not, there isn't a clear winner here. Soul Leech will ease your healer's work by providing a constant flow of health, but Dark Regeneration adds an extra survival cooldown that might save you in dangerous situations.

    Tier 2



    Howl of Terror isn't going to be useful in a whole lot of situations, although there may be specific encounters in the future where it's reliable. Mortal Coil has the benefit of providing you with 15% of your maximum health which gives it far more practical use in a raid situation, so it will be the talent of choice in most situations. With that in mind, on certain encounters involving stunnable adds, Shadowfury will be a great talent, so don't ignore it completely. I'll be explaining specific encounters where it'll be useful in future guides on my website.

    Tier 3



    The talents in this tree are all heavy defensive abilities. Soul Link in its current state shares damage between you and your pet so that you both remain at the same percentage of health. This works both ways, so you take a large amount of any damage directed at your pet. Any Warlock that did Madness of Deathwing Heroic will know that pets have a terrible tendency to stand in places that will get them killed, and whilst this could boil down to simply requiring better pet control, you're better off avoiding this talent completely. Sacrificial Pact offers you a ~300k shield, but Dark Bargain could save you from a lot more depending on how it's used, and is by far the best talent in my books.

    Tier 4



    Burning Rush is the go to talent of choice here - an on demand sprint with no cooldown is absolutely amazing. There may be the odd fight here or there where you want Unbound Will. There likely won't be any occasions where Blood Fear will have use in PvE.

    Tier 5



    Grimoire of Service offers the highest DPS gain for Demonology from the talents in this tier. This summons an additional demon to fight for you for 20 seconds on a two minute cooldown.

    Tier 6



    Honestly, the talents in this tier are all far too encounter specific to judge outright. For stationary "ultraxion type" fights without any AoE the only choice is Archimonde's Vengeance, on fights with considerable AoE you'll want to take Mannoroth's Fury, and on highly mobile fights Kil'jaeden's Cunning will be the talent of choice.



    2. Glyphs

    Like most things in MoP, the glyph system has been simplified. Most of the Warlock glyphs do not offer any DPS gains and are simply cosmetic or fun tweaks to the class. There are three you should consider for Demonology:

    [Glyph of Shadow Bolt]: Gives you a higher uptime on proc effects.
    [Glyph of Soulstone]: This is optional, but the only other Major glyph with any practical use.

    Optional:
    [Glyph of Imp Swarm]: Gives you the Imp Swarm ability. This summons a swarm of Imps to attack the target, which provides short term DPS at a cost of long term DPS.


    3. Stats

    Intellect:
    This is your primary stat. Each point of Intellect increases your Spell Power by 1. However, when looking at your gear, each point of Intellect is actually worth 1.05 Intellect due to the passive ability Nethermancy. Therefore, if an item has 20 Intellect, you will gain 21 Intellect when you equip it. Intellect also increases your crit chance by a very small amount; 2548 Intellect gives you 1% chance to crit.

    Hit
    Increases your chance to hit with spells. You need a total of 15% hit to reach cap, and 340 hit rating is equal to 1% hit. Once you reach the hit cap (5100 hit rating), your spells are all guaranteed to hit, so any additional hit is pointless.

    Haste
    Makes your spells cast faster and reduces your global cooldown. 1% Haste makes your spells cast 1% faster, and you need 423 haste rating to gain 1%.

    Crit Rating
    Increases your chance to critically hit with spells. You need 600 crit rating to gain 1% chance to crit.

    Mastery
    Each percent of Mastery increases the damage you do in caster form and the damage your demons do by 1%. Each percent also increases the damage you do in Metamorphosis by 3%. Each percent of Mastery is equal to 302 Mastery rating.


    As a general rule of thumb, you should consider stats in the following order of importance:
    Intellect --> Spell Power --> Hit (Up to 15%) --> Haste --> Crit --> Mastery.

    Intellect will almost always be the deciding factor in your upgrades. Hit is almost as good as Intellect, and almost twice as good as your other secondary stats, so focus on getting as close to the hit cap as possible. Haste is generally superior to crit at all stages of your gear unless you have very low Crit and very high Haste.

    To optimise your reforging, once your gear is relatively stable, use the scale factors generated by SimCraft and plug them into www.wowreforge.com. Import your character, specify the hit cap and away you go. If you don't know how to use SimCraft, I'll explain it in a future tutorial. If you don't want to Sim your own character, or don't care about accuracy, you can use the default scale factors in WoW Reforge. You could also use the addon ReforgeLite for similar functionality.


    4. Gems

    SOCKET COLOUR GEM EFFECT
    Meta [Burning Primal Diamond] 216 Intellect and Increased Critical Effect
    Red [Brilliant Primordial Ruby]
    160 Intellect
    Yellow [Reckless Vermilion Onyx]
    80 Intellect and 160 Haste
    Blue [Veiled Imperial Amethyst]
    or
    [Rigid River's Heart]
    80 Intellect and 160 Hit
    or
    320 Hit

    Stick to the socket colours unless the bonus is particularly weak. Intellect is more than twice as good as your other stats in all current gear, with the possible exception of Hit in some circumstances. You can use [Rigid River's Heart] in blue slots if you're struggling to get hit capped.


    5. Enchants

    SLOT ENCHANT EFFECT
    Shoulder Greater Crane Wing Inscription 200 Intellect and 100 Crit Stike Rating
    Back Superior Intellect 180 Intellect
    Chest Glorious Stats 80 All Stats
    Wrist Super Intellect 170 Intellect
    Gloves Greater Haste 170 Haste
    Belt Living Steel Belt Buckle Extra socket
    Legs Greater Cerulean Spellthread 285 Intellect and 165 Crit Strike Rating
    Boots Pandaren's Step 140 Mastery Rating and run speed.
    Weapon Jade Spirit 1650 Intellect on a proc chance.
    Off-Hand Major Intellect 165 Intellect



    6. Your Demon

    Currently Demonology uses the Felguard as its pet of choice. This gives you a powerful single target dps pet with the potential for heavy AoE via Felstorm.

    You also must not neglect your Doomguard. This is a powerful demon that you can summon only once every 10 minutes, and he stays with you for 45 seconds, attacking the target that you cast him on. He deals 20% bonus damage to enemies under 20% health, and also benefits from bloodlust. The best time to use him depends heavily on the fight that you're on and when your raid uses bloodlust, but it will almost always be just before bloodlust is cast.

    The Infernal is the Doomguard's equivalent for AoE situations. He shares the cooldown with the Doomguard, so you must decide which one is most appropriate to use.

    7. Spells and Abilities - Single Target


    Caster Form Spells:

    CORRUPTION: This deals Shadow damage every 2 seconds for 18 seconds. This spell becomes Doom when you go into Metamorphosis, meaning that you cannot cast Corruption when in Metamorphosis. Generates 4 Demonic Fury every time it deals damage.

    SOUL FIRE: Deals fire damage with a 100% chance to critically strike. The damage is increased by your critical strike chance. Generates 30 Demonic Fury.

    HAND OF GUL'DAN: Summons a falling meteor that hits the target and enemies within 6 yards for Shadow damage, and inflicts them with Shadowflame. Shadowflame deals damage every second for 6 seconds, and generates 2 Demonic Fury each time it deals damage. You can have two charges of this, and each charge takes 15 seconds to regenerate. The Shadowflame effect also stacks.

    IMP SWARM: Summons a swarm of Imps to attack the target. 2 minute cooldown.

    SHADOW BOLT: Deals Shadow damage.


    Metamorphosis Spells:

    DOOM: This deals Shadow damage every 15 seconds for 60 seconds. Your Corruption spell becomes this ability when you go into Metamorphosis, meaning that you can only cast Doom whilst you are in Metamorphosis, but you can have both Doom and Corruption active on the same enemy. Doom can be cast on multiple enemies. Costs 60 Demonic Fury.

    TOUCH OF CHAOS:
    Your Shadow Bolt spell transforms into this when in Metamorphosis. Deals Shadow damage and extends the duration of Corruption. Costs 40 Demonic Fury.

    CARRION SWARM:
    Deals Shadow damage in a frontal cone, and also knocks back enemies and interrupts spell casting. Costs 50 Demonic Fury. This is used as a knockback, and is not part of your dps rotation.

    Buff Spells:

    DARK SOUL:
    Increases your Mastery rating by 18,000 for 20 seconds.

    METAMORPHOSIS:
    Transform into a Demon, increasing damage done and transforming your abilities.

    MOLTEN CORE:
    This is a proc that has a chance to occur when you use Shadow Bolt, or when your Wild Imps do damage. This reduces the cast time and mana cost of your next Soul fire by 50%. You can gain many charges of Molten Core.



    Spell Priority: Caster Form

    1 - Grimoire of Service - Use on cooldown.
    2 - Corruption - Keep this up.
    3 - Hand of Gul'dan - Use on cooldown (*read more below).
    4 - Soul Fire - Use when Molten Core procs
    5 - Shadow Bolt - Use as a filler.


    Spell Priority: Demon Form

    1 - Doom - Keep this up.
    2 - Touch of Chaos - Spam this.

    At the start of the fight, use a Potion of the Jade Serpent and begin pre-casting a Shadow Bolt to land just as the boss is pulled. Send your pet in and use Grimoire of Service. Then use a macro to switch into Metamorphosis, apply Doom, and cancel Metamorphosis. Next, use Felstorm and Corruption, followed by Hand of Gul'dan. React to Soul Fire procs and use Shadow Bolt as your filler.

    When you use Hand of Gul'dan, it puts the Shadowflame DoT on the enemy. This lasts 6 seconds and can stack up to two times. For DPS purposes, the best way to use Hand of Gul'dan is to wait until you almost have two charges of it, use it once to apply the initial Shadowflame, and use it again before Shadowflame expires in order to gain two stacks of the DoT. This maximises Shadowflame's uptime.

    You want to use Dark Soul with Meta as soon as you have enough Fury to last the entire of Dark Soul, which should be somewhere in the range of 700 Fury. When you get there, go into Meta with Dark Soul and spam Touch of Chaos. Don't cast Soul Fire when in Meta unless the enemy is under 25% or unless something needs to die immediately.

    After that first Meta, you want to build up your fury once again. Whenever your Fury gets near full, go into Meta until it drops to around 750. Only burn lower than that if Dark Soul is available or if you actually need the DPS at that moment.

    Also, remember that you can have both Corruption and Doom up at the same time, on as many targets as you wish.


    Remember that if nobody else in your raid is providing the magic damage taken debuff, remember to apply Curse of the Elements on every enemy you attack. Remember to use Flask of the Warm Sun at all times, and use Potion of the Jade Serpent immediately before you enter combat, and again at critical stages of the fight.

    8. Spells and Abilities - Multi Target and AoE

    VOID RAY: This deals Shadowflame damage to all enemies in a 20 yard line in front of you. It extends the duration of Corruption on afflicted targets by 6 seconds. Your Fel Flame spell becomes this ability when you go into Metamorphosis.

    CURSED AURAS: Your curse spells becomes Auras, hitting all targets within 20 yards.

    HELLFIRE: Inflicts Fire damage to all nearby enemies and the caster, and generates 3 Demonic Fury per target hit. Channelled spell, 15 seconds.

    IMMOLATION AURA: Your Hellfire spell no longer needs to be channelled and no longer damages you. Metamorphosis only.

    HARVEST LIFE: Drains the life of all enemies within 15 yards of the target, inflicting Shadow damage and restoring 10 Demonic Fury per second plus three per secondary target.


    Spell Priority: Caster Form

    Corruption - Apply to each enemy.
    Hand of Gul'dan - Use on cooldown.
    Harvest Life - Use as filler.

    Spell Priority: Demon Form

    Immolation Aura - Keep active.
    Void Ray - Use to keep Corruption up.
    Doom - Keep up on each enemy if they will live for at least 30 seconds.
    Void Ray - Spam if the enemies are stacked up tightly in front of you, or Harvest Life if they are spread out slightly.

    You should still use Felstorm and Grimoire of Service whenever you can as your highest priority, and use Dark Soul when you go into Metamorphosis. Use Hand of Gul'dan for very high damage and to apply Shadowflame to your enemies, with Harvest Life as your filler in caster form when you want to build fury.

    You should use Metamorphosis once you have full Demonic Fury, or, if you need something to die sooner, then react appropriately.
    Immolation Aura will burn through your Fury extremely quickly, so only use it at high fury. Apply Doom to each enemy and spam Void Ray for dps and to keep Corruption up.

    9. Extra Tips
    This section should clarify some of the major mechanic changes between Cataclysm and Mists of Pandaria.

    Dot Refreshing:
    At level 90, DoTs are refreshed in a different way. If you cast Corruption on an enemy that already has Corruption on it, the remaining duration of the previous effect will be added to the new effect, up to a maximum of 50% of its base duration. So, if you recast Corruption when it has 6 seconds remaining, it will now have 24 seconds remaining. The maximum duration it will increase to is 27 seconds, since its base duration is 18. This means that you can refresh it any time when it has less than 9 seconds remaining and you won't waste any time. (9+ 18= 27).

    Before you reach level 90, this extension doesn't happen, which means you should refresh your DoT just after it expires.

    Doom Guard:
    Your Doomguard now benefits from Bloodlust and deals bonus damage when under 20%. He also updates dynamically with your stats - there is no need to wait for Int or Haste procs before you summon him - although summoning him when their internal cooldown is soon to expire will be beneficial, to ensure they proc whilst he is out.

    10. Mists of Pandaria - Gearing up in Week 1


    During the first week of Mists of Pandaria, there won't be any raids available (except for the two outdoor raid bosses). It also will not be possible to acquire enough Valor to purchase any gear, or achieve Revered with most factions. This means that during the first week of MoP, when gearing up ready for raids in the second week, most of your gear will come from heroics and from a few crafted items. Below is a table that shows the BiS gear that is attainable in the first week, so that you can be completely prepared for your raids. I've also included the scale factors once you're wearing that gear.


    SLOT ITEM GEMS ENCHANT REFORGE
    Head Barovian Ritual Hood
    Jandice Barov - Scholomance
    Burning Primal Diamond
    Veiled Imperial Amethyst
    Mastery --> Haste
    Neck Pendant of Precise Timing Crit --> Haste
    Shoulder Shoulders of Engulfing Winds Brilliant Primordial Ruby Greater Crane Wing Inscription
    Back Cape of Entanglement Superior Intellect Crit --> Hit
    Chest Spelltwister's Grand Robe
    Tailoring - (Golden Lotus Honoured)
    Reckless Vermillion Onyx
    Veiled Imperial Amethyst
    Glorious Stats Mastery --> Hit
    Wrist Deadwalker Bracers Super Intellect Crit --> Haste
    Hands Spelltwister's Gloves
    Tailoring - (Golden Lotus Honoured)
    Veiled Imperial Amethyst Greater Haste Mastery --> Haste
    Waist Girdle of Endemic Anger Brilliant Primordial Ruby Living Steel Belt Buckle Mastery --> Haste
    Legs Leggings of Unleashed Anguish Brilliant Primordial Ruby Greater Cerulean Spellthread
    Feet Scarlet Sandals Reckless Vermillion Onyx Pandaren's Step Crit --> Haste
    Ring 1 Vithrak, Gaze of the Deadman
    Flameweave Koegler - Scarlet Monastery Lib
    Mastery--> Hit
    Ring 2 Signet of the Hidden Door
    Thalnos the Soulrender - Scarlet Monastery GY
    Trinket 1 Vision of the Predator
    Striker Ga'dok - Gate of the Setting Sun
    Trinket 2 Flashfrozen Resin Globule
    Vizier Jin'bak - Niuzao Temple
    Weapon Headmaster's Will
    Darkmaster Gandling - Scholomance
    Jade Spirit Crit --> Haste

    Stat Weights for this gear set:




    Appendix 1 - Information for Level 85 Warlocks in 5.0.4

    - http://wowraids.org/raiding-as-a-warlock-level-85/

    Most of the information in the three guides I wrote on these forums will do you fine at level 85. The below information is other stuff you'll want to know that applies ONLY to level 85:

    - The hit cap is now 15%, which is 1537 rating. It was previously 1742, which means you will need to reforge out of some hit.

    - You can only refresh your DoTs between their penultimate and their final tick. Since many of our DoTs tick extremely quickly, it is very difficult to refresh them at the correct time. Corruption, for example, ticks roughly every 1.5 seconds, so the window to refresh it is miniscule. Don't refresh them before the penultimate tick, if you can help it.

    - These are your stat priorities:

    Demonology
    Int > Hit > Mastery >= Haste > Crit (Haste is better than Mastery once you get a certain amount of Mastery. In Dragon Soul gear, reforge Haste to Mastery until you have around equal amounts of each).

    All the other information in the guides, including rotation and talent choices, is applicable to level 85 as well as 90.
    Last edited by EvreliaGaming; 2012-09-04 at 11:45 AM.

  2. #2
    Old God Nerraw's Avatar
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    Like most things in MoP, the glyph system has been simplified. Most of the Warlock glyphs do not offer any DPS gains and are simply cosmetic or fun tweaks to the class. There are three you should consider for Affliction:
    This might need a change. ^^

    Otherwise, mighty good job like on the others.
    Quote Originally Posted by Erin View Post
    I only saw a few minutes of it but it looked slicker than a lubed up olympic swimmer fleeing from a shark.

  3. #3

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by evralia View Post
    This is one of the "no choice" options. Grimoire of Sacrifice offers the highest DPS gain for Demonology from the talents in this tier.
    No, its not, its been nerfed, stop reading simcraft as if it was gospel and you were catholic. Service is whats probably best atm for Demo, but Supremacy could be close, the stats on dual-wielding pets are very hard to test, and have been constantly changed in the recent builds, you just dont see it cause it cant be datamined.

    If you going to make a guide, do it right.
    Dont half ass it using shit you read, yet you clearly dont understand in depth. If you wanna post a guide this early, go theorycraft and sim on your own, dont copy others work to try and get some credit.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Evatar View Post
    No, its not, its been nerfed, stop reading simcraft as if it was gospel and you were catholic. Service is whats probably best atm for Demo, but Supremacy could be close, the stats on dual-wielding pets are very hard to test, and have been constantly changed in the recent builds, you just dont see it cause it cant be datamined.

    If you going to make a guide, do it right.
    Dont half ass it using shit you read, yet you clearly dont understand in depth. If you wanna post a guide this early, go theorycraft and sim on your own, dont copy others work to try and get some credit.
    I'm well aware it's been nerfed, hence why you'll see that it shows 30% and not 55%. I'm not going to update it until there is proven evidence of what is best, and you'll also understand that on a beta things change all the time and sometimes they're not going to make it into the first draft. Now unless you want to go out there, write your own guide from scratch and keep it updated with conjecture instantly after the possibility of something changing is presented, I suggest you work on your people skills.
    Last edited by EvreliaGaming; 2012-08-17 at 07:56 PM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by evralia View Post
    I'm well aware it's been nerfed, hence why you'll see that it shows 30% and not 55%. I'm not going to update it until there is proven evidence of what is best, and you'll also understand that on a beta things change all the time and sometimes they're not going to make it into the first draft. Now unless you want to go out there, write your own guide from scratch and keep it updated with conjecture instantly after the possibility of something changing is presented, I suggest you work on your people skills.
    You also do an amazingly poor job at describing single target priorities. Too lazy to go in-depth on it, but 2 very glaring mistakes are the fact you say moltencore soulfire is never used in meta which is BS, you use in excute phase, the reason you usually dont use it in meta is cause charges are limited and using em while in meta means less demonic fury gain, they also can be worth wasting if you need the burst; you also make no mention of the fact you have to aim to use only ToC to refresh corruption, since refreshing it while out of meta you make it recalc its dmg without meta bonus, also you dont wanna over refresh it in meta, unless you have a proc up. The entire spec revolves around optimal fury usage and you dont seem to understand the concept.

    There is prolly a lot of other mistakes, but Im not reading it all and looking for them. My point stands, if you wanna do a guide, do it right, dont half-ass cause then you are being detrimental to the players who dont know better and read it. You basically seem like you wanna look wise without actually being it by reading just enough from the theorycrafters.
    Last edited by Evatar; 2012-08-17 at 08:04 PM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Evatar View Post
    You also do an amazingly poor job at describing single target priorities. Too lazy to go in-depth on it, but 2 very glaring mistakes are the fact you say moltencore soulfire is never used in meta which is BS, you use in excute phase, the reason you usually dont use it in meta is cause charges are limited and using em while in meta means less demonic fury gain, they also can be worth wasting if you need the burst; you also make no mention of the fact you have to aim to use only ToC to refresh corruption, since refreshing it while out of meta you make it recalc its dmg without meta bonus, also you dont wanna over refresh it in meta, unless you have a proc up. The entire spec revolves around optimal fury usage and you dont seem to understand the concept.

    There is prolly a lot of other mistakes, but Im not reading it all and looking for them. My point stands, if you wanna do a guide, do it right, dont half-ass cause then you are being detrimental to the players who dont know better and read it. You basically seem like you wanna look wise without actually being it by reading just enough from the theorycrafters.
    It's making potentially complex information more accessible to those that don't have the time to understand it.

    It has been suggested (and simulated) that if you don't switch into Meta to refresh Corr, you end up with more fury during DS and effectively increasing your DPS. I can't say for definite though, but I'll certainly update it as and when the information is certain.

    Thanks for the reminder about Soul Fire though, seems that slipped through this writeup.
    Last edited by EvreliaGaming; 2012-08-17 at 08:49 PM.

  8. #8
    Slight error I noticed (also in your other guides I think) grimsac only gives the 20% health buff if you spec into soul link which you recommend not doing.

  9. #9
    In demo forum, you don't cast soul fire?

  10. #10
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    Glyph of Imp Swarm is not in and of itself an DPS increase.

    with the glyph, you get one less Imp per 2 minutes period, in order to be able to summon a bunch of imps all at once. It front loads damage but does less damage over a long period of time.

    also its cooldown is reduced by haste (just as the passive Demonic Calling buff is) so it does not line up with Dark Soul, per se. it has both positives and negatives but it is not a required glyph per se, Only required on fights that require on demand burst (al a Hagara, Spine, or Madness of DW)

    rather than recommending glyphs i thinks it better that you just list each one that is relevant to Demonology and explain their strengths and weaknesses. For example i would say glyphs that provide passive healing like Siphon Life are really useful for Demonology.



    ---------- Post added 2012-08-17 at 04:53 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by boyrot View Post
    In demo forum, you don't cast soul fire?
    you cast soul fire in Demon Form during the Execute, but it's better to save Molten Core procs for Caster form pre-execute phase.
    Last edited by Grubjuice; 2012-08-17 at 09:08 PM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Grubjuice View Post
    Glyph of Imp Swarm is not in and of itself an DPS increase.

    with the glyph, you get one less Imp per 2 minutes period, in order to be able to summon a bunch of imps all at once. It front loads damage but does less damage over a long period of time.

    also its cooldown is reduced by haste (just as the passive Demonic Calling buff is) so it does not line up with Dark Soul, per se. it has both positives and negatives but it is not a required glyph per se, Only required on fights that require on demand burst (al a Hagara, Spine, or Madness of DW)

    rather than recommending glyphs i thinks it better that you just list each one that is relevant to Demonology and explain their strengths and weaknesses. For example i would say glyphs that provide passive healing like Siphon Life are really useful for Demonology.
    This is incorrect. It's a DPS gain in the long run too. Simcraft shows a (small) DPS loss when not using the glyph - even in the long run. I would probably put this down to Intellect procs, Dark Soul and Bloodlust being active during Wild Imps, making it an effective gain over the lost imp each two minutes. Edit: Zinnin does a very good job of describing its benefits below.

    Quote Originally Posted by boyrot View Post
    In demo forum, you don't cast soul fire?
    Correct, although you do cast it below 25%. This is because your Molten Core charges are limited, and it's best to use them in caster form to generate more Demonic Fury. However, below 25%, you get a Molten Core charge whenever you use Soulfire anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by CoachBob View Post
    Slight error I noticed (also in your other guides I think) grimsac only gives the 20% health buff if you spec into soul link which you recommend not doing.
    Thanks, fixed that. The default profiles on Simcraft have now updated to show Demonology using GrimServ is a confirmed increase, anyway.
    Last edited by EvreliaGaming; 2012-08-18 at 10:33 AM.

  12. #12
    Question: Chaos Wave, yes or no?

  13. #13
    The Patient Kaizers's Avatar
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    Never unless what you're aoeing needs to die at this very second. HoG is usually better in all situations.
    Last edited by Kaizers; 2012-08-18 at 06:25 AM.

  14. #14
    Moderator Zinnin's Avatar
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    The Imp Swarm glyph is a little wierd, and simcraft doesn't convey all the pro's of the glyph very well (it just shows a couple hundred (maybe even less at the point) dps gain).

    So, while Imp swarm does in fact give one less imp per 2 minute period it can coincide well with Dark Soul, which basically give each imp a ~30% higher value. Also, for the first two minutes of the fight the glyph gives the same amount of imps per period due to the fact you always start the fight with the Demonic Calling buff.

    It also front-loads you fury generation, which is hugely helpful when you are blowing cooldowns very early in the fight to line up with heroism or stacking procs (GoServ is also very useful for this same reason). It also allows some pooling fury 'over the cap' because it is essentially ~250 fury fury over ~22 seconds.

    This allows you to blow a very large chunk of fury on a Trinket proc, but still be able to get up to high fury levels before the next big proc or cooldown becomes available.

    So while it the mechanics and numbers of glyph make it look lesser, or even equivalent to the passive, the great control over both your fury and burst on top of cooldowns makes it a decent increase if used correctly.

    Chaos Wave has its uses if you are going to use a single stack of HoG immediately and don't have time to wait for a second stack. Due to how the stacking DoT mechanic works for shadowflame HoG will remain superior when you use both stacks together.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Evatar View Post
    There is prolly a lot of other mistakes, but Im not reading it all and looking for them. My point stands, if you wanna do a guide, do it right, dont half-ass cause then you are being detrimental to the players who dont know better and read it. You basically seem like you wanna look wise without actually being it by reading just enough from the theorycrafters.
    I'd like to see other guides that have everything right early on in a patch or even before an expansion releases and the class is getting tweaked daily. The guy never claimed his info was as you said, "gospel", and he is clearly open to suggestions after already fixing a few mistakes, such as Soul Fire in Meta and Grimoire of Service being superior. You could say, "Why even bother making a guide then?" but as long as the OP actually keeps his posts up to date (time will tell on that) then what does it matter? There is a funny thing about a work in progress...

  16. #16
    Question: Should I use Doom when the boss fight starts and always pop Meta to keep it up or just use it for the first time when I reach 900+ DF?

  17. #17
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    Doom is easy enough to put up at the start of the fight,
    I use Hand of Guldan -> Corruption ->[Meta] Doom -> [dropmeta] Hand of Guldan in the first few seconds of the fight.

  18. #18
    Great work on these guides, they are much appreciated.

    Small thought: Considering the number of fights that start with BL at the top I've been finding good results with a short meta at the beginning of the fight:

    Pre-pot > SB > CoE > Trinkets > HoG1 > Cor > DS:K > Imp Swarm > GSERV (if used) > DG (If used now) > HoG2 > Meta > Doom > Felstorm > ToC until Meta drops off.

    This seems to have a few benefits and one drawback:

    It uses Imp swarm with DS:K at the start of the fight which is a nice boost to some pretty major damage they do.
    It maximises uses of DS:K throughout the fight, lining it up nicely (with a slight underlap) with Imp Swarm.
    It maximises the bloodlust openings that have been frequent in previous raid tiers. MoP may change this of course.

    On the minus side I'm seeing an approximate 4 second window where meta drops and DS:K is still up, but with the delay between the two HoGs leading to more ticks (and fury generation) coupled with the imp swarm fury generation within meta, it lasts much longer than you'd think at the top of a fight. You also end up with a heck of a lot of MC procs just after meta which take advantage of buffs that are still up from the top.

    Simcraft will probably prove me wrong, but first hand experience from dummies, MoP dungeons, and all those times when I've raided and I know that the start of a fight is when you're standing still and actually executing your rotations well, tell me this might be a better opener. And all at the cost (Unless I'm missing something?) of 4 seconds os DS:K.

  19. #19
    The gearing up in 1 week is also very well done.

  20. #20
    I'm going to assume you're reforging on the "1st week gear" is incorrect. I haven't done the weights but judging by your trends it's almost certainly better to reforge the crit on items with hit to expertise as it's 340 rating= 1% for both hit and expertise last I checked. This may be the same for the hit/mastery or hit/haste items depending on what you're simming on weights.
    Last edited by CDShaidar; 2012-08-20 at 12:08 PM.
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