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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by krishokan View Post
    yes I did I didn't see you had just updated it and I meant to put service. my apologies, but there's no need to be rude.
    Service has been listed as the Grimoire of Choice for some time. And not being rude, it was a genuine question. Apologies if it came across that way.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-24 at 11:39 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Docmort View Post
    When you're going for a full DS/meta DF burn do you use demonic leap/portal to get in ToC range/teleport back to caster distance?
    Touch of Chaos is ranged. There is no need for us to be in melee range in MoP.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Docmort View Post
    When you're going for a full DS/meta DF burn do you use demonic leap/portal to get in ToC range/teleport back to caster distance?
    Touch of Chaos, and Metamorphosis "Melee" attack have a 40 yard range as per other ranged attacks.

  3. #43
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    Is there any analysis between using Hellfire as an AoE filler (in caster form) versus using Harvest Life as the AoE filler? You recommend Harvest Life but don't explain why exactly you recommend it.

    My understanding is that Hellfire does more damage/target in caster form than Harvest Life but that Harvest Life does provides a teensy bit more Demonic Fury (and of course yields health rather than cost it). Also how many targets need to be hit by Hellfire for it to replace Shadow bolt as a filler and how many targets does it need to hit before you start ignoring procs of Molten Core?
    Last edited by Grubjuice; 2012-08-24 at 01:24 PM.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Evatar View Post
    You also do an amazingly poor job at describing single target priorities. Too lazy to go in-depth on it, but 2 very glaring mistakes are the fact you say moltencore soulfire is never used in meta which is BS, you use in excute phase, the reason you usually dont use it in meta is cause charges are limited and using em while in meta means less demonic fury gain, they also can be worth wasting if you need the burst; you also make no mention of the fact you have to aim to use only ToC to refresh corruption, since refreshing it while out of meta you make it recalc its dmg without meta bonus, also you dont wanna over refresh it in meta, unless you have a proc up. The entire spec revolves around optimal fury usage and you dont seem to understand the concept.

    There is prolly a lot of other mistakes, but Im not reading it all and looking for them. My point stands, if you wanna do a guide, do it right, dont half-ass cause then you are being detrimental to the players who dont know better and read it. You basically seem like you wanna look wise without actually being it by reading just enough from the theorycrafters.
    First off i'd like to say thank you for your criticisms as they do help improve the guide and correct information that would otherwise lead us players to play our class ineffectively. That being said, the way you go about correcting the original poster is definitely not a way you should want to present yourself and definitely not appropriate behavior towards others. If your going to offer advice/criticisms, please do it kindly so others actually want to listen and improve, not take what you say and focus on the negative implications of your words. No one likes help from someone who is going to do it angrily. Help others, don't assume that they're posting these guides to, as you say, "look wise." I assure you they don't intend to mislead players. If that is the case, then report the post. Don't attack them publicly.
    Last edited by Nekkrotic; 2012-08-24 at 06:01 PM.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Nekkrotic View Post
    First off i'd like to say thank you for your criticisms as they do help improve the guide and correct information that would otherwise lead us players to play our class ineffectively. That being said, the way you go about correcting the original poster is definitely not a way you should want to present yourself and definitely not appropriate behavior towards others. If your going to offer advice/criticisms, please do it kindly so others actually want to listen and improve, not take what you say and focus on the negative implications of your words. No one likes help from someone who is going to do it angrily. Help others, don't assume that they're posting these guides to, as you say, "look wise." I assure you they don't intend to mislead players. If that is the case, then report the post. Don't attack them publicly.
    I totally agree .
    In my mind this kind of answer is useless and hurtful
    Last edited by Shadowswann; 2012-08-24 at 06:12 PM.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Nekkrotic View Post
    First off i'd like to say thank you for your criticisms as they do help improve the guide and correct information that would otherwise lead us players to play our class ineffectively. That being said, the way you go about correcting the original poster is definitely not a way you should want to present yourself and definitely not appropriate behavior towards others. If your going to offer advice/criticisms, please do it kindly so others actually want to listen and improve, not take what you say and focus on the negative implications of your words. No one likes help from someone who is going to do it angrily. Help others, don't assume that they're posting these guides to, as you say, "look wise." I assure you they don't intend to mislead players. If that is the case, then report the post. Don't attack them publicly.
    I would also like to add, to anyone reading those comments, take them with a pinch of salt, as much of what has been said in replies is now redundant. Obviously only the main post gets updated. For example, Corruption does not benefit from Meta any more, so there is no point trying to only use ToC to refresh it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grubjuice View Post
    Is there any analysis between using Hellfire as an AoE filler (in caster form) versus using Harvest Life as the AoE filler? You recommend Harvest Life but don't explain why exactly you recommend it.

    My understanding is that Hellfire does more damage/target in caster form than Harvest Life but that Harvest Life does provides a teensy bit more Demonic Fury (and of course yields health rather than cost it). Also how many targets need to be hit by Hellfire for it to replace Shadow bolt as a filler and how many targets does it need to hit before you start ignoring procs of Molten Core?
    I don't have the numbers right here, but I'll try to write a detailed explanation about this when I have a little more time.
    Last edited by EvreliaGaming; 2012-08-24 at 08:06 PM.

  7. #47
    Fantastic looking guide so far. I did see an error in it when you're going through the fight scenario. Corruption is not mentioned once until towards the end of the "scenario" guide(second to last paragraph in the "Spells and abilities - single target" section. I'd fix that just for beginners sake. Other wise it looks great so far. Right now I'm trying to figure out what I want to make my tailor to replace my locks current tailoring with engineering for the glove enchant. I see myself making more money with JC than tailoring and both seem to provide the same amount of intellect.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by cauzt1cz View Post
    Fantastic looking guide so far. I did see an error in it when you're going through the fight scenario. Corruption is not mentioned once until towards the end of the "scenario" guide(second to last paragraph in the "Spells and abilities - single target" section. I'd fix that just for beginners sake. Other wise it looks great so far. Right now I'm trying to figure out what I want to make my tailor to replace my locks current tailoring with engineering for the glove enchant. I see myself making more money with JC than tailoring and both seem to provide the same amount of intellect.
    Thank you, good catch.

  9. #49
    If anyone has criticisms, either make them constructively or make your own guide, imo.

  10. #50
    so, i tried to figure out the opener rotation (regarding to simcrafts priority list) for demo and got that one:

    prepot --> precast shadowbolt --> CoE --> Darksoul[+Bloodfury/Trinkets] --> Service+Felstorm --> Doomguard --> corruption --> Meta+Doom --> Touch of Chaos* --> cancel Meta --> HoG --> Shadowbolt/Soulfire(Procc) --> HoG --> Shadowbolt/Soulfire

    *refreshing Corruption with meta bonus

    any suggestions?
    Last edited by Valyna; 2012-08-26 at 10:41 PM.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Valyna View Post
    so, i tried to figure out the opener rotation (regarding to simcrafts priority list) for demo and got that one:

    prepot --> precast shadowbolt --> CoE --> Darksoul[+Bloodfury/Trinkets] --> Service+Felstorm --> Doomguard --> corruption --> Meta+Doom --> Touch of Chaos* --> cancel Meta --> HoG --> Shadowbolt/Soulfire(Procc) --> HoG --> Shadowbolt/Soulfire

    *refreshing Corruption with meta bonus

    any suggestions?
    First of all, Corruption does not get a meta bonus, so don't bother with that.

    I describe what I think, for now, is the best opener, in the main body of the guide. Doom has higher DPET than Corruption, so that should come first. Doomguard will be better used below 20% unless you are bloodlusting on the pull. Other than that, you're on the right lines.

    Pot - Precast shadowbolt - CoE - Trinkets and whatever - Service + felstorm - Meta/Doom/CancelMeta macro - Corruption - HoG - SB/SF - HoG - SB.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Docmort View Post
    When you're going for a full DS/meta DF burn do you use demonic leap/portal to get in ToC range/teleport back to caster distance?
    TOC is ranged, everything about Demo can be done at ranged, execept for AOE
    Warlock / IA Operative / Wizard / Engineer

  13. #53
    I really have no interest in speccing into Grimoire of Service since I find it utterly god damn boring, how much DPS difference is it between that one and the other two?

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    I really have no interest in speccing into Grimoire of Service since I find it utterly god damn boring, how much DPS difference is it between that one and the other two?
    The latest simcraft results for T13H gear:
    http://www.simulationcraft.org/504/P...emonology.html


    but you shouldn´t rely on these numbers too much
    Last edited by Valyna; 2012-08-27 at 12:19 AM.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    I really have no interest in speccing into Grimoire of Service since I find it utterly god damn boring, how much DPS difference is it between that one and the other two?
    Pushing one button every 2 minutes is more boring than not pushing any at all? :P

    These comparisons were taken from here: http://www.simulationcraft.org


    Edit: someone beat me to it.
    Last edited by EvreliaGaming; 2012-08-27 at 12:15 AM.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by evralia View Post
    Pushing one button every 2 minutes is more boring than not pushing any at all? :P
    Many people, me included, think that the interesting change/twist of the class is to either have an improved demon or no demon at all. Having the classic demons with a 2 min cd to summon a second one is very boring according to this perspective.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by evralia View Post
    Pushing one button every 2 minutes is more boring than not pushing any at all? :P
    It's not that, it's just that with Grimoire of Service, yey I get to summon another demon... Whereas with Supremecy I get "permanently" upgraded demons, which is just so much more fun than using two of my old boring ones for 20 seconds... Even Sacrifice is more fun with that extra HP reg and not having to keep track weather or not my pet got stuck or died somewhere for some weird reason.

  18. #58
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    Having 2 felguard all Time would of Been nice but 2min CD and 20sec with à 2nd felguard just don't same fun.

  19. #59
    I personally enjoy service. Who doesn't love seeing two fel guards lolstorm everything at once?

  20. #60
    I see Grimoire of Service is a powerful burst cooldown though, and like the above poster said, double Felstorm? Winner.

    I expect though that once the novelty wears off, having upgraded demons won't seem any cooler than having two at once.

    Personally I'll be playing Affliction for the chance to play with GrimSac. Never been the biggest fan of pets.
    Last edited by EvreliaGaming; 2012-08-27 at 11:40 AM.

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