Nibiru and Akkadians/Sumerians

[Dryade]

You do realize that Neanderthal's were a completely different species right? We have the same ancestors but we evolved, they went extinct.

Since it seems you didn't read my post, my entire point was, we are nothing a like. We didn't evolve from them, not in a 20-40k time frame. There needs to be far more species between Neanderthal and humans to make that link. It's just not possible for such a drastic transformation to essentially happen over night. Again, they are primates, we are not.

What drove them to extinction? They were apex predators, with the strength of chimps or gorillas and the intellect to match. We didn't kill them off, disease didn't kill them off, a lack of food didn't kill them off. So how did they just disappear off the face of the earth? How would the melting of the ice caps kill them off, but not us? Humans were out of Africa far before the end of the last ice age, but we survived...

[Deleted]

Nibiru is one of the craziest theories I've heard. And I've heard a lot about NWO, 9/11 truthers, creationism and evil scientists, so... You know what I think.

---------- Post added 2012-08-18 at 01:14 AM ----------

Since it seems you didn't read my post, my entire point was, we are nothing a like. We didn't evolve from them, not in a 20-40k time frame. There needs to be far more species between Neanderthal and humans to make that link. It's just not possible for such a drastic transformation to essentially happen over night. Again, they are primates, we are not.

What drove them to extinction? They were apex predators, with the strength of chimps or gorillas and the intellect to match. We didn't kill them off, disease didn't kill them off, a lack of food didn't kill them off. So how did they just disappear off the face of the earth? How would the melting of the ice caps kill them off, but not us? Humans were out of Africa far before the end of the last ice age, but we survived...

Actually, it has been shown that every human "race", except from the "pure breed" Africans have Neanderthal DNA. It's always a fun thing to point out to white supremacists.

[Deleted]

I'm sure the Sumerians and Akkadians had knowledge that was worth keeping, but this isn't part of it. They were ancient peoples. Primitive and superstitious. Their astronomy was a bit lacking compared to ours.

Primitive????
Maybe they were superstitious, but they were also the first civilization (probably) with a justice system, the widespread use of irrigation (at least I think so, I can't recall the time period of Egypt's) and managed to develop multiple cities - and a tower (see Babel) - despite the land being barren for the most part.


Also I thought Nibiru was the place of their Gods and therefore Kings?
Isn't there more to it than a doomsday theory? That's what I was asking about.

[Dryade]

Here's a typical example of a scientificly illiterate person who will missinterpet and pervert real science because he simply doesn't understand it or is entirely ignorant of it.
Human evolution didn't happen in a line. It's a tree with branches and different families. We are the branch that survived. Our relatives all failed.

A big number of chromosomes does not equals to being an advanced organism. There are vegetables and plants with more chromosomes than us.

The DNA difference between a human and a chimpansee is 2%. The difference between Homo Sapiens Sapiens and Cromagno would be even less.
In even less than that time, different continents have gotten different-looking people on them. Why? EVOLUTION! You might want to look that up.

Just because you don't understand enough or when science can't explain exactly everything, everywhere that ever happened, doesn't equals to those caps being filled in by aliens. Damn I wish people could use their bloody heads for something usefull some time.

The funniest part was this one. In an entire post completely lacking of it.

You can take that 2% garbage and toss it out the window. For one, it's more like 5%. Two, that amounts to a difference of approximately 150,000,000 base DNA pairs. That isn't much, right? I mean, how much genetic information could be contained in that massive number?

[Deleted]

Since it seems you didn't read my post, my entire point was, we are nothing a like. We didn't evolve from them, not in a 20-40k time frame. There needs to be far more species between Neanderthal and humans to make that link. It's just not possible for such a drastic transformation to essentially happen over night. Again, they are primates, we are not.

What drove them to extinction? They were apex predators, with the strength of chimps or gorillas and the intellect to match. We didn't kill them off, disease didn't kill them off, a lack of food didn't kill them off. So how did they just disappear off the face of the earth? How would the melting of the ice caps kill them off, but not us? Humans were out of Africa far before the end of the last ice age, but we survived...

You tell him to read your post and you fail to read his? Comedy gold.

Yeah let's make all these things you don't know or understands to equals aliens. Yes that is reasonable, logic and common sense...

Firstly, we are not decendant from Neanderthals. The post you quote even states it, we weren't even the same species as them.
Neanderthals were not primates, yet again you shine with your mind-blowing ignorance.
WE, ARE, NOT, DECENDANT, FROM, NEANDERTHALS! THEY, WERE, A, SUBSPECIES, ON, OUR, GENUS!

As for why they aren't around anymore, there are many ideas on that. Interspecies breeding is one, because apparently we have a very small percentage of neanderthal DNA in us today. Another thesis is that they were in far inferior numbers compared to Homo Sapiens that later on colonized and "conquered" the world so to speak.

Many species die all the time. It's nature. And you my man, need to go to school and study, because I find your lack of knowledge disturbing.

[Sayl]

I suppose I should have been clear about what concept I was interested in.
I meant Nibiru and the Sumerian/Akkadian civilization. Not the belief that it will collide with Earth.

In terms of astronomical objects related to Sumerian myth, "Nibiru" makes reference to Mercury, Jupiter, and perhaps a star (or stars) they observed adjacent to Jupiter. That much has been extrapolated from the cuneiform texts. Anything else is strictly mythology.

In a nutshell, there's nothing "special" about the Sumero-Akkadian myths. You can see the same trends in other polytheistic societies in the Mediterranean or Ancient Near East. All these cultures could see the same five planets in the sky and made up their own stories about them, whether they involved deities or not.

[Deleted]

You can take that 2% garbage and toss it out the window. For one, it's more like 5%. Two, that amounts to a difference of approximately 150,000,000 base DNA pairs. That isn't much, right? I mean, how much genetic information could be contained in that massive number?

Did you google that? That seems awfully complicated words and numbers for you all of a sudden.

Numbers vary on source, 95-98~%.

Extremely small differences make very big changes. I dunno really, DNA and RNA isn't my area of expertise. It's a pretty difficult field.

But I did have a laugh at how you ignored how owned you got by everything else I wrote.

[Prokne]

I suppose I should have been clear about what concept I was interested in.
I meant Nibiru and the Sumerian/Akkadian civilization. Not the belief that it will collide with Earth.

Since the theory that a large celestial object called Nibiru by the people who made it up is largely based on their imagination this is how I would equate the theory to Summerian mythology:

These guys made up an object that was supposedly around when the Sumerians were alive.
They named it after a vague Sumerian astronomical location to associate it with them.
I have found no information in Sumerian mythology that says Nibiru will come to Earth.

Sumerian astronomy was not developed enough to be able to calculate that anything would collide with the Earth let alone an object with a 3000 year+ orbit. So basically: its all made up and the guys who made it up wanted it to seem more plausible by linking it with an ancient civilization.

[Sayl]

I was reading a book by Samuel Kramer...

Sorry, I missed this earlier. Kramer's books are some of the best, most accessible resources available on the subject -- he was a highly respected specialist and his works are invaluable.

This would probably be the most appropriate reading recommendation given your interest. As long as you avoid the "ancient astronaut" devotees and stick with respected academics, you should be fine. The tinfoil crowd really puts a damper on cultural histories that are already fascinating enough without invoking alien intervention nonsense.

[Deleted]

Sorry, I missed this earlier. Kramer's books are some of the best, most accessible resources available on the subject -- he was a highly respected specialist and his works are invaluable.

This would probably be the most appropriate reading recommendation given your interest. As long as you avoid the "ancient astronaut" devotees and stick with respected academics, you should be fine. The tinfoil crowd really puts a damper on cultural histories that are already fascinating enough without invoking alien intervention nonsense.

Yes I saw that, I'm currently reading this. I wanted to read about the people before I read their mythologies. Thanks for the link(s).

[Sayl]

I definitely believe there is some truth in their writings. I can't imagine a culture developing writing, but, only writing fantasies or fables. I also think their is some truth about our creation through some other ancient race.

They wrote all sorts of things: they chronicled their politics, trade, daily life, poetry, songs, public administration, construction... you name it. Myths and legends don't account for the majority of their writings. You might as well single out fiction portrayed on screen in the 20th century, and then conclude that "there must be some truth" to Star Trek, The Time Machine, or Planet of the Apes... because we're the same culture that invented movies and television.

---------- Post added 2012-08-17 at 09:16 PM ----------

Yes I saw that, I'm currently reading this. I wanted to read about the people before I read their mythologies. Thanks for the link(s).

Nice. That looks like a quality introduction.

[Sooba]

Did you google that? That seems awfully complicated words and numbers for you all of a sudden.

Numbers vary on source, 95-98~%.

Extremely small differences make very big changes. I dunno really, DNA and RNA isn't my area of expertise. It's a pretty difficult field.

But I did have a laugh at how you ignored how owned you got by everything else I wrote.

DNA and RNA are odd enough that 2% of the genome in higher life forms could be nearly all of the coding regions for mRNA, or have no coding regions at all.

As for the pseudo science of the conspiracy theorists: The rate of DNA change for the appropriate families/genera are perfectly within acceptable parameters for known rates of mutation, and the concepts of punctuated equilibrium. Pseudoscience is pseudoscience. No "alien" influx of genetic information needed.

This is all telling you what you had already surmised, though.

[Gheld]

100% of the people I know of, who believe in Nibiru spend between 50 and 100% of their disposable income on drugs. Now I don't know what such a statistic means, but that's the data I've been able to gather so far.

[Wikiy]

Primitive????
Maybe they were superstitious, but they were also the first civilization (probably) with a justice system, the widespread use of irrigation (at least I think so, I can't recall the time period of Egypt's) and managed to develop multiple cities - and a tower (see Babel) - despite the land being barren for the most part.

Sumer was indeed the first real civilization of humans, but they just didn't make their civilization up. It developed over time. They managed to invent irrigation because they lived in Mesopotamia. Their justice system was utter shit (although the one i'm about to cite is actually later, from the Akkadians, it just goes to show how much worse Sumer must have had since Akkadians came along later: Hammurabi's code and the Code of Ur-nami). Tower of Babel is probably fictious, but their architecture (ziggurats) was amazing nonetheless.

Also I thought Nibiru was the place of their Gods and therefore Kings?
Isn't there more to it than a doomsday theory? That's what I was asking about.

Nibiru was their type of myth (although probably blown out of proportion due to the 2012 phenomenon), similar to how to Greeks believed in Olymp. Every culture had it, there is no reason to put any more trust in Sumer.

---------- Post added 2012-08-18 at 02:19 PM ----------

If I may speak frankly: Preposterious, idiotic bullshit conjured up by incompetent, uneducated, paranoid minds.

There is such a thing as drifting planets. It is likely that the Earth will eventually become one as a result of our Milkyway Galaxy colliding with the Andromeda galaxy (I think it was). Our solar system will be thoroughly messed up and the Earth will be smacked out of orbit. That's where all this is made up from. Real science has been missinterpreted and perverted into a pseudo-science mumbojumbo.

Planets never drift away. Never. Only way it could happen is if the star somehow lost most of its mass, but the only way that can happen is a dissipating red star, a nova or a supernova. All of these destroy all their planets much sooner.

[Deleted]

Sumer was indeed the first real civilization of humans, but they just didn't make their civilization up. It developed over time. They managed to invent irrigation because they lived in Mesopotamia. Their justice system was utter shit (although the one i'm about to cite is actually later, from the Akkadians, it just goes to show how much worse Sumer must have had since Akkadians came along later: Hammurabi's code and the Code of Ur-nami). Tower of Babel is probably fictious, but their architecture (ziggurats) was amazing nonetheless.



Nibiru was their type of myth (although probably blown out of proportion due to the 2012 phenomenon), similar to how to Greeks believed in Olymp. Every culture had it, there is no reason to put any more trust in Sumer.

Yeah, I never meant Nibiru in the sense of an imminent collision. I actually wanted to know the mythology of it. Their justice system might have been shit but it was the first high civilization to have a black and white justice system. This is because they have a huge sense of duty and would be offended if even the king enroached on it.
About the development of their civilization, I was responding to someone who said they were primitive. I understand it didn't just develop over night. Babel is based off a Ziggurat, there's evidence to show it did exist but not of biblical proportions. Also the fact that they established not only the first but any civilization at all is merit to them. There was little to no stone in Messopatamia and the only wood they had was reeds.

[Wikiy]

Yeah, I never meant Nibiru in the sense of an imminent collision. I actually wanted to know the mythology of it.

Just adding onto this: I don't really think they considered Nibiru to be a planet. I doubt they knew what a planet was anyway. I think it was just their realm of gods as much as Olymp was to the Greeks or heaven is to Christians.

Their justice system might have been shit but it was the first high civilization to have a black and white justice system. This is because they have a huge sense of duty and would be offended if even the king enroached on it. About the development of their civilization, I was responding to someone who said they were primitive. I understand it didn't just develop over night.

I'm sure there were a lot of other civilizations we don't know about. The only reason we consider Sumer to be the first one (although a very interesting one, at that) is because they were the ones to have developed writing, and therefor they essentially were the first ones to have left their traces behind. The first city, for example, was based in Damascus (which had very little to do with Sumer).

As for their justice, it was a horrible, barbaric eye-for-an-eye system (ironically, the first law of that system is used as capital punishment in various country, specifically, the US). They would drive spikes through women who cheated on their husbands, cut off the hands of poor people who stole an apple, kill those who stole anything more significant, and do the same to those that didn't pay back people to whom they owed something. It wasn't something revolutionary to their age, something like that was probably used centuries before them by dozens of cultures, theirs is particularly noted because their leaders decided to write down their laws because they could.

[Themius]

transformers!

I love the videos of "nibiru" on youtube showing Lucifer (Venus). I'm calling Venus Lucifer for he's the morning star (Venus).

OT:

Venus is Venus and Lucifer is pretty much the male name for Venus, yet it's taboo to name a child Lucifer but fine to name them Venus.

[Kalis]

What some people may not understand about ancient cultures is that their religion wasn't fixed in the sense that we understand religion today. The gods gained and lost importance, their spheres of influence could change, as could the objects and epithets associated with them.

A few reasons for this is that they originated in oral traditions that can change over time, different regions had different versions of the same myths and sometimes they encountered entirely new myths that they incorporated into their tradition. The most obvious example of this is Rome incorporating the myths of conquered peoples, but it was widespread in all cultures. It's an alien concept to us, as our religions have become very rigid in what is, and what isn't, canon.

So Nibiru being associated with Venus wouldn't preclude it from also being associated with Mars, or a place on Earth, or a person, or a god, or nowhere at all.

Another thing that bugs me is people claiming that ancient cultures couldn't have been as advanced as they were without extraterrestial influence - it's pretty insulting to them.

---------- Post added 2012-08-18 at 08:35 PM ----------

transformers!

I love the videos of "nibiru" on youtube showing Lucifer (Venus). I'm calling Venus Lucifer for he's the morning star (Venus).

OT:

Venus is Venus and Lucifer is pretty much the male name for Venus, yet it's taboo to name a child Lucifer but fine to name them Venus.

Err, no it isn't. Lucifer as a name refers to Satan, but 'lucifer' as a Latin word means 'light bringer' (same root as our word 'lucid'), and isn't a name.

[Wikiy]

Err, no it isn't. Lucifer as a name refers to Satan, but 'lucifer' as a Latin word means 'light bringer' (same root as our word 'lucid'), and isn't a name.

Also, Venus is the name of the Roman goddess of love. Lol at how anyone can link Christian mythology and Roman mythology in such a bizarre way.

[Albert the fish]

ok if this thread is supposedly about the Sumerian and Akkadian belief in Nibiru and they didn't believe in Nibiru then... what's the point of this thread again?