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  1. #1

    The "now everyone can see the content" argument

    There have been quite a few posts lately implying that LFR's existence means that hard modes have been trivialized, since all the content can be seen via LFR, thus the entire raiding concept of 'exceptionalism' is ruined.

    I ask: Why weren't you complaining about normal modes when they were introduced? This game has handed out similar gear with higher stats for heroics for years now, and only a handful of HM encounters have an extra boss (Sinestra / Algalon), so... why weren't these complaints being fielded then?
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  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    There have been quite a few posts lately implying that LFR's existence means that hard modes have been trivialized, since all the content can be seen via LFR, thus the entire raiding concept of 'exceptionalism' is ruined.

    I ask: Why weren't you complaining about normal modes when they were introduced? This game has handed out similar gear with higher stats for heroics for years now, and only a handful of HM encounters have an extra boss (Sinestra / Algalon), so... why weren't these complaints being fielded then?
    Because when less than 1% of a game complains they can't be heard?

    Why can't I hear crickets breathing at night?

  3. #3
    The Patient DanBowie's Avatar
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    Are you asking why dont people complain more? Lol by your argument why dont people just complain about everything

  4. #4
    Mechagnome Artravus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    There have been quite a few posts lately implying that LFR's existence means that hard modes have been trivialized, since all the content can be seen via LFR, thus the entire raiding concept of 'exceptionalism' is ruined.

    I ask: Why weren't you complaining about normal modes when they were introduced? This game has handed out similar gear with higher stats for heroics for years now, and only a handful of HM encounters have an extra boss (Sinestra / Algalon), so... why weren't these complaints being fielded then?
    Because normals weren't facerolltastic enough to be able to pug a group, have 5 afkers on follow, and still get epics.
    When she was just a girl, she expected the world, but it flew away from her reach so she ran away in her sleep and dreamed of para-para-paradise, para-para-paradise, para-para-paradise every time she closed her eyes..

  5. #5
    Frankly if you want Blizzard to make the game hard for you then you have to make your position the majority position. Then Blizzard will stand up and listen to you. Oh wait, you don't want the majority in your sandbox because you want to be a special snowflake.... guess you are screwed.

  6. #6
    They did complain a bit back then. However, LFR magnified it, thus really getting the posts flowing. And add to it the lull between expansions.....KABOOM!

    At least, that's my theory.

  7. #7
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    What purpose do created content serve if people can't witness it?
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Zryereassu View Post
    What purpose do created content serve if people can't witness it?
    Can't? It's not exactly demanding to do normal modes.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Zryereassu View Post
    What purpose do created content serve if people can't witness it?
    didnt know the game blocked people from entering normal/heroic ;O
    but yeah i dont see the problem with lfr if its released a few weeks after normal/heroic

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by M1r4g3 View Post
    didnt know the game blocked people from entering normal/heroic ;O
    The game doesn't, but to be fair, life sometimes does. I'm not going to argue that anyone should be able to clear Normal without expending some effort (in terms of scheduling, prep, etc.) because that's not true (I have never believed that, even back when I was trying to clear Normal ICC). I think LFR is overall a positive for those of us whose availability is not as clear cut as others.
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  11. #11
    Bloodsail Admiral StaeleAilar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zryereassu View Post
    What purpose do created content serve if people can't witness it?
    People CAN witness it. They're just too lazy to even bother to learn their classes well enough even for the joke of a raid known as Dragon Soul. So sick of this argument that if you put effort into your toon and the game then you "have no life and are a snowflake". No, we just enjoy playing the game well.

    LFR has only achieved one thing and that thing is allowing people to think they can raid whilst not even trying to learn to play better. It's a disgusting creation.

  12. #12
    LFR means a greater percentage of players get purple gear. Greater Percentage = less prestige = complaints of vocal minority. They are down to firsts and AFK mounting. Matter fo fact, Blizz shoulda put AFK-Mount hill in some zone or city in this expansion.

    If you cannot fathom why there are picture buttons on McDonalds cash registers then you probably will still poke your chest out about clearing normal mode in the first few weeks.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Frankly if you want Blizzard to make the game hard for you then you have to make your position the majority position. Then Blizzard will stand up and listen to you. Oh wait, you don't want the majority in your sandbox because you want to be a special snowflake.... guess you are screwed.
    Hahaha, this post makes so much sense I laughed.

    Truly, if hardcore players were the majority, the game would not be going the way it is going. Pleasing the broader audience = profit. That is the rule in about every single business in the world.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by kazih View Post
    Can't? It's not exactly demanding to do normal modes.
    When my raiding group leaders went on long term vacation to play swtor the guild fell apart so I joined my rl friends guild of rl friends. They said they wanted to do some raid content. When I got there they were so far behind the ball that they were sucking wind in normal Cata dungeons. I politely dusted the noob off of 12 people and guided them along the path to finish dragon soul normals. It took several months and the hard part was getting them to change the way they played without insulting them. It wasn't easy and it was quite demanding.

    So don't tell me its not demanding to do normal modes. I had to shape and raise an entire guild's level of game and we are quite proud of our achievements and looking forward to MoP raiding.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by StaeleAilar View Post

    LFR has only achieved one thing and that thing is allowing people to think they can raid whilst not even trying to learn to play better. It's a disgusting creation.
    Would have been nice is LFR was a little closer in difficulty to Normal. LFR is suppose to give those who have a schedule that prevents them from raiding, or those who otherwise wouldn't raid a chance to do so.

    Problem is, LFR seems to teach you that standing in bad stuff is ok, spamming one button and doing appalling DPS and afking is the way to get loot. That shit doesn't fly in actual raiding, so why is it in LFR, which is suppose to give you a taste of what raiding is without the scheduling of raiding. You can raid on your own time.
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  16. #16
    Wait so because LFR exists that makes Heroic mode easier?

    I doubt that's the way the real hardcore people who are still "special snowflakes" Because they get worlds first and still get to do full/full hc think.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Cernunnos View Post
    Would have been nice is LFR was a little closer in difficulty to Normal. LFR is suppose to give those who have a schedule that prevents them from raiding, or those who otherwise wouldn't raid a chance to do so.

    Problem is, LFR seems to teach you that standing in bad stuff is ok, spamming one button and doing appalling DPS and afking is the way to get loot. That shit doesn't fly in actual raiding, so why is it in LFR, which is suppose to give you a taste of what raiding is without the scheduling of raiding. You can raid on your own time.
    Bad loot for minimum effort. What exactly is the issue?
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by StaeleAilar View Post
    People CAN witness it. They're just too lazy to even bother to learn their classes well enough even for the joke of a raid known as Dragon Soul. So sick of this argument that if you put effort into your toon and the game then you "have no life and are a snowflake". No, we just enjoy playing the game well.

    LFR has only achieved one thing and that thing is allowing people to think they can raid whilst not even trying to learn to play better. It's a disgusting creation.
    I'll disagree with you here. The guild that I directed through normals first went into LFR, that way I would know if they liked raiding before I wasted my time getting them into raiding. They got a taste for raiding and decided they liked it and moved on to actual raids.

    They actually said they loved raiding after thier first LFR and when I explained that LFR isn't really raiding they were confused. I told them that it was like them buying an cross country bike for the first time and then rolling up on Lance Armstrong and telling him that since you were both cross country bicylists you were basically the same. At that they decided they wanted to do real raiding now.

    So LFR=Taste of Raiding and in that function LFR=working as intended.

  19. #19
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    LFR is just fine for those that aren't as good or those that don't have time or don't have a proper group.

    Can't see why LFR trivialize hard modes or removes the reason to do them. Some people actually like that challenge of harder difficulty, some like the extra rewards, some like that little badge of, "I did this, yo!".

    I'll blame the vocal minority, they should be more quiet.
    "Reminds me of a dog, you stare at it while it's playing outside... Running around in a circle, then stopping up, wagging with a wide "grin". Jumping around until you call for the dog, then it lowers its tail because it think it's done something bad... And then you throw the ball, seeing the tail go straight into the air in bliss! ^^" - Gehco
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cernunnos View Post
    Would have been nice is LFR was a little closer in difficulty to Normal. LFR is suppose to give those who have a schedule that prevents them from raiding, or those who otherwise wouldn't raid a chance to do so.

    Problem is, LFR seems to teach you that standing in bad stuff is ok, spamming one button and doing appalling DPS and afking is the way to get loot. That shit doesn't fly in actual raiding, so why is it in LFR, which is suppose to give you a taste of what raiding is without the scheduling of raiding. You can raid on your own time.
    LFR is as easy as it is because as a cross-realm PUG there's virtually no organization. It's designed to be fairly drop-in, and it needs to be able to survive that.

    Blizzard targeted it at a certain % success rate given a projected demographic with a lack of organization. If they made it a step harder, the success rate would go down. It's not really meant as a hurdle or stepping stone into higher raiding, nor does it need to be.

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