View Poll Results: Is the game worst then it was?

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  • Worst then it was.

    257 31.89%
  • Still the same old.

    73 9.06%
  • Better then it was.

    409 50.74%
  • No thoughts either way.

    67 8.31%
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  1. #181
    The Lightbringer Zuben's Avatar
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    The sense of community is definitely much lesser than it used to be and there's not really any mystery left as over the years I've checked every nook and cranny of the world, but the game features and potential on the other hand feel greater than ever. Lore presentation is much better than in Vanilla, and that's pretty much my main interest these days, so I'd say the game is doing pretty well. I can get the sense of mystery by exploring the worlds of other games anyway.

  2. #182
    I def agree that the sense of community is lesser. You pretty much knew who was who on your server back in the vanilla days. But, as a lot of pointed out, WoW has turned for the better over the years. People may not believe it, but blizz def tries to cater to the mass amounts of QQ in the WoW forums.

  3. #183

    PLAYING in vanilla does NOT mean playing COMPETITIVELY.

    Logging in, ganking lowbies, and feeding adolescent ADD in vanilla doesn't a valid opinion make about current content and the business direction Bliz / Activision has taken.

    I sincerely hope no one takes this post as troll, or as flaming. I could type for days about this subject, but rather decided to share a simple small thought or two, since we seem to be in the spirit.

    Quote Originally Posted by theK1ll577 View Post
    "the game HAS evolved and been updated to reflect the ease of access market"
    No one can refute this, and I personally believe that the above philosophy is what turns people away. More often than not however, people aren't quite able to put their finger on what it is about the game that is turning them away and by proxy, they cant properly articulate their displeasure (not that it would matter anyway, but more on that in a bit). I started playing this game as an adult, so the accusation that that the game only seems like its changed, when really the change was with me is irrelevant. Also, the bar graph poll seems a bit irreverent as well because so many of the players that dislike the current WoW model are already long gone. Its simply not the whole story.

    It seems to me that a large chunk of the player population became addicted to a game that presented a challenge. When you saw a high-end raider in Org, you were like "holy SHIT! How do I get gear like that? How do I get that title? How can I pull do THAT much damage??". There was a goal, and it inspired intelligent, committed, goal oriented gamers (and turning non-gamers into gamers - yours truly) to work toward being THAT player.

    Yes, I AM a WoTLK player, but NO I have not, and will never simply echo the bemoaning of children about how the game was ruined, as was suggested by the OP. I don't believe the game has been completely ruined (yet -I still think there's at least 1 more xpac before WoW officially becomes a console game. Right on que with the release of the fabled "Titan"), but in 3 years they have SIGNIFICANTLY changed the entire dynamic of having to EARN your keep, and be proud of yourself upon arrival. And the dynamic continues to slowly but steadily slide into that very particular direction, diminishing the sense of accomplishment for committed players along the way.

    I very, VERY firmly believe that what Bliz/Activision is doing to the dynamic of the game is a very carefully calculated move to make WoW the as easy to use as a console game, commitment free, mindless cash-cow as possible. If you look at it from a business standpoint, and keeping in mind "Titan" being on the never-ending horizon, it makes perfect sense. That seems confusing as I re-read it, but the gist is that its business 101 - If you want to get people hooked on a new product, you first have to convince people that they don't want the old product. Most importantly, it has to feel like THEIR idea.

    I could type for days articulating my thoughts on this, but its pointless. Even if you DO compose a well thought out and comprehensible argument, complete with alternative paths for players with different focuses, 99% of the time you will be ignored or called demeaning names like "special snowflake" in "blue" posts. But more often than not, you will be snidely told by the players who have benefited from the great homogenization of WoW to "wait and see", or "try it out before you bitch" - both statements of which are a complete joke, because by the time it gets to the stage where ANYONE can "try it out" (ala beta), its already FAR too late in development stages to change anything - the shortbus has already left the parking lot.

    The real shame is that once you start giving things to people that they can and should earn for themselves, you take away the persons incentive to work for what they have. You rob them of coming to know the sense of pride and accomplishment that comes from being one of only a few. I for one am pretty pissed that I missed that opportunity in WoW, and I really hope that Titan re-delivers whats been taken. Either that, or Ill just have to get a life >_>

  4. #184
    Mechagnome Tacotruck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judaest View Post
    I really hope that Titan re-delivers whats been taken. Either that, or Ill just have to get a life >_>
    Expect Titan to have LFG/LFR or it's equivalent baked in from the start. Blizz knows who the majority of it's fans are and the "top" handful of a % of the fanbase alone is not enough of a subscriber base. In what world does a business model where you alienate 90% of the fans to please 10% make sense? It would be like professional sports refusing to broadcast games because real fans make the effort to come see games live. Fan goodwill AND profits would plummet to levels that would make the entire enterprise unsustainable.
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  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacotruck View Post
    Expect Titan to have LFG/LFR or it's equivalent baked in from the start. Blizz knows who the majority of it's fans are and the "top" handful of a % of the fanbase alone is not enough of a subscriber base. In what world does a business model where you alienate 90% of the fans to please 10% make sense? It would be like professional sports refusing to broadcast games because real fans make the effort to come see games live. Fan goodwill AND profits would plummet to levels that would make the entire enterprise unsustainable.
    Wasn't titan already said to be a family oriented game? I've heard it was a shooter from a pretty reliable source, a new kind of game.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by sk68 View Post
    If you are going to poll, then at least make the choices understandable.

    1. Worst then it was.
    2. Still the same old.
    3. Better then it was.

    I have no idea what "Worst then it was" is supposed to mean. Is this even English? I can understand that "then" is probably "than", but the phrase "Worst then it was" makes zero sense--when you are comparing something using "than", how on earth does one use "worst" instead of "worse". Did you mean "Worse than it was"?

    You said in point 3 better then it was,I have no idea what "Better then it was" is supposed to mean, actually I do. and see no issue with this at all, just wanted to point out how harmless themistake was and how much you over reacted, but thats troll!

  7. #187
    the world used to feel dangerous. levelling used to be at least some form of challenge, and went some way to teaching you how to play your class. these days the world is neutered, and you follow the path set for you as you can virtually AFK your way to 85, its so easy.

    that part at least is much, much worse.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.

    The volume of new game features and content in MoP is a direct consequence of people cancelling subscriptions during Cataclysm. You're welcome.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by laserguns View Post
    Still the same old

    Raiding isn't as much fun and the world is dead. I feel sorry for WoW players who didn't experience Azeroth when it was just 1-60 and there were loads of players running around, when you could get 200 people fighting in Tarren Mill for no particular reason.

    But the questing is much better, the default UI is much better, there is more random stuff to do (for a new player at least), the servers aren't down half the time etc. Evens out really.

    edit: The difference between killing Illidan and waiting for new content is only a few thousand guilds killed Illidan when it was the top raid, compared to everybody being able to kill Madness on LFR now. So instead of 100k players waiting for new raids you have 10 million waiting for new raids.
    I kinda agree, my guild where just stepping into black temple round about the time the nerf came, quite frankly I was dissapointed WOTLK came out, I could have quite happily continued with TBC for a few more months, maybe even a year.

    Now we're waiting months on end for content.

  9. #189
    Well i am a rogue too, from the day 1 i played this game (Little bit before TBC). What i miss the most is how unique were the classes at that time. Rogue for example. We had to learn how to use weapons, how to pick locks, choose three kind of weapons skills (fist/dagger=5% crit, axe/sword=5% extra attack, Mace=5% stun), each talent tree had its meaning, gear was soooo difficult to take. I remember geting in Karazan with my pvp swords, the only epic weapon i could have for a long time! I mean each class had something unique. Now all have stuns, three classes can use somekind of stealth etc.

    The bigest mistake they did, is that every class had each own business to do except from everything else. Now all are the same.

  10. #190
    Dreadlord Geekissexy's Avatar
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    I agree with almost everything you said, but you have got to be kidding me when you said that "The game has not been dumbed down".

    That makes me feel like you didn't actually play at all in Vanilla.

    - You actually had to use CC back then in normal groups, heroics, and raids! If you didn't most times it meant a wipe. You couldn't just AoE down all the trash pulls like you can now. Not only that, but you had to be careful which abilities you used around them because everything broke CC too.

    - When you saw someone with epics back in the day, you know they had worked their butts off to get them. You had to grind out fire resist, frost resist, and nature resist for the older raids. Now you can walk in and kill all the bosses without having to worry about any of these things.

    - Gold was much harder to acquire for most people. Getting your first epic mount felt like a true achievement.

    - Making groups was a lot more difficult. You had to use summoning stones unless you had a warlock, and you had to sit in chat and hope you could find a full 5-man, or hope people in your guild wanted to run. Don't even get me started on 40 man raids. I can't even believe we pulled that off anymore.
    Last edited by Geekissexy; 2012-11-24 at 02:02 AM.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Geekissexy View Post
    - Making groups was a lot more difficult. You had to use summoning stones unless you had a warlock, and you had to sit in chat and hope you could find a full 5-man, or hope people in your guild wanted to run. Don't even get me started on 40 man raids. I can't even believe we pulled that off anymore.
    Back in my day, those stones were used to queue for dungeons and not for summoning.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

  12. #192
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geekissexy View Post
    I agree with almost everything you said, but you have got to be kidding me when you said that "The game has not been dumbed down".

    That makes me feel like you didn't actually play at all in Vanilla.

    - You actually had to use CC back then in normal groups, heroics, and raids! If you didn't most times it meant a wipe. You couldn't just AoE down all the trash pulls like you can now. Not only that, but you had to be careful which abilities you used around them because everything broke CC too.

    - When you saw someone with epics back in the day, you know they had worked their butts off the get them. You had to grind out fire resist, frost resist, and nature resist for the older raids. Now you can walk in and kill all the bosses without having to worry about any of these things.

    - Gold was much harder to acquire for most people. Getting your first epic mount felt like a true achievement.

    - Making groups was a lot more difficult. You had to use summoning stones unless you had a warlock, and you had to sit in chat and hope you could find a full 5-man, or hope people in your guild wanted to run. Don't even get me started on 40 man raids. I can't even believe we pulled that off anymore.
    It's true that some things were harder back then, but not universally everything.

    Some things were legitimately harder. The game had a much steeper learning curve, for one.

    Then there were a lot of things that weren't really challenging, just more tedious or time-consuming.

    And some things, like boss complexity and individual player "rotations" are a lot more challenging today.
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  13. #193
    Scarab Lord Izenhart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geekissexy View Post
    - You actually had to use CC back then in normal groups, heroics, and raids! If you didn't most times it meant a wipe. You couldn't just AoE down all the trash pulls like you can now. Not only that, but you had to be careful which abilities you used around them because everything broke CC too.
    So you do in Challenge modes, which is what Blizzard have been repeating time and time again to be the new hardmode 5men dungeons.

    And from TBC to WotLK to Cataclysm there have always bean easymode heroics and hard heroics people used to insta-leave if they got queued into. Arcatraz, Black Morass, Oculus, 3.3.0 ICC dungeons, Grim Batol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geekissexy View Post
    - When you saw someone with epics back in the day, you know they had worked their butts off to get them. You had to grind out fire resist, frost resist, and nature resist for the older raids. Now you can walk in and kill all the bosses without having to worry about any of these things.
    Now you don't "walk in and kill all the bosses".

    How many HC bosses did you kill this content?

    No one gives a shit about how your gear looks. It's the reward that comes from your raiding progression that matters. Titles, mounts and higher LEVEL of gear. Not gear appearance. And with transmogrify that doesn't even matter anymore.

    Do you seriously think having to farm for WEEKS frost resist and nature resist for the tanks to be even able to ATTEMPT Hydross was something fun, challenging or rewarding just because it was hard? Having an entire raid get the Onyxia cloak for Flamegor/Ebonroc/Firemaw? Fire resist farm on the warlock that had to tank Leotherass?

    NO.

    It was tedious, and boring, and a completely unnecessary raidblock+timesink that required neither skill nor coordination, just lots and lots of time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geekissexy View Post
    - Gold was much harder to acquire for most people. Getting your first epic mount felt like a true achievement.
    Yet again, more timesinks that were boring and unnecessary. Most ways to gain gold in Vanilla were just to farm for hours and hours elementals hoping to loot some Essences, mindlessly and endlessly farm Dire Maul, or go and do all the quests you could get for the huge gain of 1.5/2.5g per quest.

    Boring, tedious, unimaginative way to gain gold. Way more boring than actually being smart and knowing how to play the AH with the resources you have given your professions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geekissexy View Post
    - Making groups was a lot more difficult. You had to use summoning stones unless you had a warlock, and you had to sit in chat and hope you could find a full 5-man, or hope people in your guild wanted to run. Don't even get me started on 40 man raids. I can't even believe we pulled that off anymore.
    Again, and this is the definitive proof that either you have a pretty twisted memory of what Vanilla was, or you were just a casual so you probably didn't mind or realize so much how time consuming it was, or simply we have much different meanings to the equation "hard=better".

    What makes you think that "making groups was a lot more difficult" back then equals to the game being toned down nowadays?

    You seriously think spamming a chat for 45 minutes, then spend 20 minutes to fly/reach the instance, often with 60% mounts because not everyone had the 100% one, then maybe having to have someone go back to a City to spam the chat AGAIN because during the 1+ hours that you took to assemble the group one of the members had to go away/afk/leave. And you think this made the game better?


    The game at lvl60, at the time, was a fucking masterpiece.

    But if you compare it to all the improvements, technical, graphical, gameplay-wise and of overall quality of life, then lvl60 WoW is the little retarded brother of lvl70, lvl80, lvl85 and lvl90 WoW
    Last edited by Izenhart; 2012-11-24 at 02:25 AM.

  14. #194
    Dreadlord Silver-Fox's Avatar
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    I started playing at the end of the Ahn'Qiraj events so I think that gives the appropriate credentials of speaking as a "vanilla player". Maybe. I really started playing because I felt that the burning crusade expansion looked "cool" so I rolled a mage and got to sixty maybe a year before release?

    I feel personally that World of Warcraft, for me personally, is better now than it was. However this is not without understanding the fundamental evolution the game has gone through and we the players have experienced. I feel the game in it's current state is the culmination of Blizzard's game design and development process. You know, like we are given certain features in one expansion and Blizzard would get feedback then they would remove and redesign some of the less attractive features and build on the features we loved. So I think it's better now because the game's evolution has been a result of Blizzard's experimentation. There were ups and downs, yeah, but I feel it's better now than it was years ago because Blizzard's been improving the game since.

    Yeah Vanilla was cool and I do miss the level of social activity it had before dungeon finder and random battlegrounds. But the grinds then, if you ask me solely, were worse than all the grinds in any expansion. I think it was vanilla that projected the stereotype of playing World of Warcraft and having no life so-to-speak. It was fun, still don't get me wrong, just in hindsight I couldn't say I would have had the patience and stamina to make it level sixty. While I concede that the game was harder back then in virtually every respect, virtually every aseptic was harder then, I think it is for the nostalgia we yearn for more than the actual game-play of yesteryear that brings up these sorts of topics or why people want vanilla servers offered to veteran players. For me vanilla was a trial by fire that if you reached sixty and got an epic, you were somebody and now it seems more like a commodity to have an epic equipped after say only a couple days after hitting the level cap.
    "Enjoy your power"

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Izenhart View Post
    So you do in Challenge modes, which is what Blizzard have been repeating time and time again to be the new hardmode 5men dungeons.
    If you're going for gold in those challenge modes you don't CC at all. You pull all the things and rotate aoe stuns and cds.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
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  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by theK1ll577 View Post
    These are just my thoughts on why it appears there is so much QQ (that has always been there anyways lol) still going on about how good the game use to be, and how much it isn't now. Thoughts?
    The first drink of water is always the best drink of water, not because the water changes - but because you do.

    I've been running my mage since 28th May 2005, still loving the game - so I think that the minority whingers just are more vocal than the silent happy majority.

  17. #197
    I played vanilla and absolutely LOVED it. It's the cool thing for people to say they miss vanilla,.... but honestly its the truth. The game was raw and required you to actually use your brain. Now everything is just forcefed and put up on a silver platter.

    It also had more of a community feel. That is a huge part of it. Felt more like an RPG rather than just a farming game.

  18. #198
    Reading some of the posts its obvious most veteran players just left WOW a long time ago. I left WOW at the end of Cata. To me WOW was really better both in Vanilla and TBC because you had to be on top of your game to actually accomplish in the rading part of the game. I remember wiping for weeks on raid encounters and having the best tries being better and better.

    You couldnt do anything with half the raid afk unless you were 2 tier above, sure a Naxx guild could go AFK in molten core but noobs still wiped and wiped in MC. The game was so much better back then. The first Trivial raid came in WOTLK with the redone Naxx that's when Blizzard started to get lazy and opened up raiding to everyone.

  19. #199
    It always astounds me when I look back at my subscription history and realize I was technically a Vanilla player, though I never hit a level cap until BC. So let me weigh in!
    I feel like WoW as a "game" is always improving. Mechanics constantly getting clarified/improved/made relevant, more complex mob mechanics, so many quality of life changes, and tons of casual fare added throughout the years. I know there's people out there that don't support changes like LFR and LFG, but you can't really stop the march of progress. Plus, that seemingly tends to boil down to a different issue, that of community.
    Like the game, the community's also been constantly changing, but since it's made up of almost nothing but intangibles it's pretty hard to say if it's ever been better or worse. Apparently the official forums have been bad from the beginning, and are actually arguably better now. Blizzard seems to communicate with the playerbase more, but on the flipside when players don't get recognition it just gives them one more reason to whine. Tools like LFR and LFG are great additions from a gameplay aspect, but they can actually harm a server community. Of course, if the majority of a server is flocking to tools instead of their own peers, doesn't that say something about the "supportive, friendly community" in which they allegedly reside? And it's not like you can't still make your own groups. So that's sort of a non-issue in my eyes, and I've made plenty of use of LFG, if not LFR (never had the iLevel in Cata ^.^).

    So, has the game gotten better since Vanilla? I'd say yes, almost unarguably so. Has the community also improved? Eh, it's hard to tell. I wouldn't say it's gotten worse, anyway, it's just that the current fads and wants of the community are always changing. Remember when Gearscore was the be-all-end-all of the game? Yeah, the things the community fixates on tend to come and go, whereas the core gameplay (the part Blizzard can actually control) has remained solid and received nothing but improvements and streamlining since release.

  20. #200
    There are 2 sides to the story.

    1)MMO's werent so famous back then, WoW was a completely new experience and came from the awesome background of Warcraft 2/3/TFT, got famous really fast.

    2)The game was a RPG back then, it is not anymore every since the beginning of Wrath.

    WoW evolved from a MMO-RPG game, to something else..It started with the whining of "I am being left out of dungeons/PvP/Raids as class XX because class XX has <Spell here>", after that generalization started, everyone has everything to make the game more accessible in terms of classes-->RPG feeling gone.

    The game became better in terms of annoyance, with the whole LFR and other things, they ARENT bad, if you play any of the new games that come out, that last a few months and have a population and then start to go down and everyone calls for a LFR, you understand what i mean but it drifted away from its RPG core into something else, i really have no idea what it is nowdays, every second class is the same so there wont be PvE cries etc.

    The community will never change, there were 13 year olds then, there were 30 year olds acting like 13 years old then, and they exist now..Nothing has changed, only thing has changed is the accessibility of things, back then maybe a couple 13 year olds had something to brag about and be asses, nowdays everyone has something to brag about = What you have.

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