View Poll Results: Is the game worst then it was?

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  • Worst then it was.

    257 31.89%
  • Still the same old.

    73 9.06%
  • Better then it was.

    409 50.74%
  • No thoughts either way.

    67 8.31%
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  1. #221
    Things change for better or worse. Fact is, we are all still paying to play and discuss it. I would say regardless of what happens in WoW, we will all just keep right on playing.

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by marikae View Post
    I started playing a month or two after release, from me Vanilla had a hell of a lot more nostalgia to it...

    PVP - Rank 10 (Lieutenant Commander)
    PVP was very different, the grind for ranks was awful and I remember people aiming for Grand Marshal would literally PVP all day, you get in the top PVP group (which was something of an honor, especially being bitched at by Swifty for not keeping him healed in a 2 vs 6 fight) and just steam roll the opposition who often would just leave when they saw who they were against.

    Alterac Valley would last for days, you could leave for a day or so and join the same game. Korrak would often obliterate everyone, handing in the items for upgrades actually mattered. Summoning Ivus could actually turn the tide, until a horde player would kite him to Drek or worse Ivus would bug the hell out and do nothing.

    I can remember in AV, having the entire raid inspired to follow two Grand Marshall paladins just because they had golden armor on and actually winning the game because of it.

    PVE - MC/BWL/AQ up to C'thun/Naxx (Cleared spider wing and the first two bosses from the other wings)
    Very different feeling towards epics because not everyone had them, getting full tier 2 felt like an achievement (won a few pieces of t3, meh at pally t2.5). The two main guilds I was in never had any issue getting 40 people together for raids, although we certainly carried a few people. Raid bosses weren't particularly hard until the later half of AQ and Naxx, where carrying people became less and less of an option. I can still remember attempts at realm first on an impossible C'thun and how people seem to go crazy over how many wipes there were. One of the funniest moments was our raid leader kiting Patchwerk with a hunter in the room after Anub, it took something like 3 hours and getting hit once would have been the end of it.

    There was certainly a dependency on having the right classes, be in right specs, having the right resistance gear, etc.

    AQ gate quests were fun, get the top 2-3 guilds on the realm to help get one person the staff. The gate opening event was hilarious because it was so laggy the realm had to be restarted a few times, everyone was wiping on the wandering elites.

    Dungeons

    Pugging dungeons kinda sucked, spamming "LFM" just to get enough numbers (15) for UBRS was awful although I don't remember why I bothered, probably to fill time. CC was normally (this is back before the change from 10 to 5) required unless the group had a few people in epics, in which case the dungeons were generally a waste of time (gear up alts and friends in MC).

    Now

    It's been kinda sad watching Blizzard try to balance everything around arena and e-sports, horde gaining paladins and alliance gaining shaman, I made it to around 2000+ rank in BC arena but never really got into it.
    It's even worse seeing the raid content get watered down so everyone can experience it. I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad thing but for me personally, I don't feel the need to even raid with a guild anymore (it used to be like having a second job) as I can just get the experience and items in LFR while still playing with friends, who cares if they're 'welfare' epics as they look the same and they will be replaced in a few patches anyway.

    /End old timer rant.

    Marikae (not to be confused with bigbanger), Paladin. Darkspear - End Result, JubeiThos - Fade.
    I was just talking about this the other day, epics are no longer epic. I remember working hard for my devout back in the day and even that set was an achievement. I miss feeling like you have to work for what you get in the game.

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by MaxwellsMama View Post
    I was just talking about this the other day, epics are no longer epic. I remember working hard for my devout back in the day and even that set was an achievement. I miss feeling like you have to work for what you get in the game.
    You still do have to work for what you get in WoW, just because LFR gear is purple doesn't mean it's the best. If I inspect someone and they have a "Heroic Elite" item, I'll be pretty damn amazed, even if it is the same color as the LFR gear.

  4. #224
    This is a tricky question.
    The game has evolved significantly in 8 years as it should, the game was more grindy back in the days and it was more adventure to explore the game.
    Now it's a lot more features which is good because a game needs to evolve and get new features to survive, and the game is aimed towards a bigger crowd than before.

    Even how much I loved this game back in Vanilla/TBC I still really enjoy this game but in another way I guess.

  5. #225
    The only thing I miss from vanilla is the "new" feeling of the game. It was my first MMO with swords and board since UO and certainly my first where instead of role playing I was doing PVE raid content etc. Aside from that I don't really miss that much at all in fact I vastly prefer the game now.

    The only other thing I can say I miss are big world events like the opening of AQ gates. The firelands one is quite cool and a step in that direction and the new dailies will hopefully be similar in scope.

    The epics are no longer epics is moot. By the end of vanilla a lot of players were going into MC pugs on the server I was on, sure they were not as easy to obtain as now but thats not a bad thing. As a raiding guild it was harder to gear new players up than now and we spent more time gearing up new recruits and losing our best geared guys to guilds that were clearing aq40 and most of nax while we were bwl and mc cleared and doing up to battle guard in aq40 and 1 or 2 bosses in naxx.

    Now sure epics are not too hard to obtain (I'd say harder than cata as you need to get rep from dailies for a lot of the epics out side of raids where as in cata you bunged on a tabard and got rep as you got heroic blue loot)

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    The epics are no longer epics is moot. By the end of vanilla a lot of players were going into MC pugs on the server I was on, sure they were not as easy to obtain as now but thats not a bad thing. As a raiding guild it was harder to gear new players up than now and we spent more time gearing up new recruits and losing our best geared guys to guilds that were clearing aq40 and most of nax while we were bwl and mc cleared and doing up to battle guard in aq40 and 1 or 2 bosses in naxx.
    This is about the struggle and the rewards inherent to succeeding in the face of adversity. Epic items were very difficult to get in Vanilla - don't water that point down by saying they "were not as easy". When you finally got a major upgrade it was a great feeling. I still remember, over seven years later, the feeling of getting my Azuresong Mageblade in MC and turning in my Hear of Hakkar for the server's first Zandalarian Hero Charm. 20 people came with me after the raid just to watch. Which brings me to the next point, addressed to everybody who says the community isn't different...

    About five of those people weren't even in my guild. They flew down from Stormwind because they thought it was cool that we killed Hakkar and wanted to be part of the little ceremony with the NPCs. I got congratulations in a thread on the realm forums the next day and people I'd never talked to were giving kind words to my guild and me. Those realm forums had at least 20 threads updated within the last few hours - they were active. Then there's the standard stuff we hear: server-wide vents for PvP, blacklisting certain players from an entire server, and a sense that people know you and you know them. It really was a different atmosphere and that's the biggest thing WoW has lost. It existed because of the innate fish bowl that we were all stuck within and also because we were forced to interact to get quests and dungeons done.

    Those two things are what I miss most about Vanilla. The sense of accomplishment is largely gone from the game for me and that's probably largely due to outgrowing it but I believe there's an added bit of juice when you drag 40 people, coordinated by class officers because there were 5+ of each class, through a difficult boss fight that most of them had never encountered anything of the like. When you got rewarded with a very rare purple it was a big deal.

    The rest of Vanilla I don't really miss. I can appreciate things about it but they've come a long, long way in making the game function better. Because of the improvements - of which have been covered ad nauseam in the thread already - I voted "no difference". The changes largely offset, and what is gained balances what was lost.

  7. #227
    I think game play mechanics are far better today. My only real complaint is LFR and LFG. On a lower popular server i feel that they have devastated the community and created lazy players who will drop group if they cant get a summon to the raid or 5 man. I have seen this quite often. Really irks me.

    I do wish we could get more class specific quests with specific rewards for that class. Big, long epic chains that mean something.

    There is a few things i would not mind from vanilla but overall the game has improved. Love the raid mechanics.

    Crafting should play a bigger role in the game i think. a lot of the "MMO" feeling has gone. I think that is mainly due to LFR and LFG (IMO).

  8. #228
    The Lightbringer shise's Avatar
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    In my opinion MoP bring the W O R S E PvP ever. Yep, ever.


    PVE. In my opinion is the second best in terms of diffuculty, right after TBC. In terms of raid mechanics or design it's also right after TBC. When it comes down to Lore it's the third after Wotlkand TBC.


    To be honest, I thought MoP was going to be a bad joke... but it turns out to be greater than expected. Imo, the best expansion after BC and WotLK (Wraht lore and design kinda saves it besides it's joke dificulty)

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by azzgunther View Post
    This is about the struggle and the rewards inherent to succeeding in the face of adversity. Epic items were very difficult to get in Vanilla - don't water that point down by saying they "were not as easy". When you finally got a major upgrade it was a great feeling. I still remember, over seven years later, the feeling of getting my Azuresong Mageblade in MC and turning in my Hear of Hakkar for the server's first Zandalarian Hero Charm. 20 people came with me after the raid just to watch. Which brings me to the next point, addressed to everybody who says the community isn't different...

    About five of those people weren't even in my guild. They flew down from Stormwind because they thought it was cool that we killed Hakkar and wanted to be part of the little ceremony with the NPCs. I got congratulations in a thread on the realm forums the next day and people I'd never talked to were giving kind words to my guild and me. Those realm forums had at least 20 threads updated within the last few hours - they were active. Then there's the standard stuff we hear: server-wide vents for PvP, blacklisting certain players from an entire server, and a sense that people know you and you know them. It really was a different atmosphere and that's the biggest thing WoW has lost. It existed because of the innate fish bowl that we were all stuck within and also because we were forced to interact to get quests and dungeons done.

    Those two things are what I miss most about Vanilla. The sense of accomplishment is largely gone from the game for me and that's probably largely due to outgrowing it but I believe there's an added bit of juice when you drag 40 people, coordinated by class officers because there were 5+ of each class, through a difficult boss fight that most of them had never encountered anything of the like. When you got rewarded with a very rare purple it was a big deal.

    The rest of Vanilla I don't really miss. I can appreciate things about it but they've come a long, long way in making the game function better. Because of the improvements - of which have been covered ad nauseam in the thread already - I voted "no difference". The changes largely offset, and what is gained balances what was lost.
    You and I remember vanilla differently. First few months it was hard to get epics (near non existent) outside of raids (rare drops boes etc) At the end of vanilla (which I aimed my post at) it wasnt that bad. You had MC pugs going in a lot getting out gear. It is nothing on wrath/cata granted but it wasnt that hard. I saw loads of onyxia and mc pugs. Hell I even sold spots to people just before TBC in raids I ran (pug ones) for reserve items for gold.

    They also opened up the PVP items for honour and badges right at the end of vanilla. to help gear people for TBC.

    I still remember replacing my dungeon tier (elements set iirc) for shaman tier 1. My first epic, VENDOR SHAKER! I bid on it as a nice pvp upgrade people were shocked in my guild that I wanted it as shamans were healers. I came from a pvp guild called grand theft kodo and still did a lot of BGs so it was cool.

    *edit* I just remembered they offered a dungeon tier set upgrade later on as well afaik? some quests and gold etc were required, I think they also introduced ZG and aq20 to help gear players up as I regulary ran pugs for both of those as well. Still it was nothing compared to the gear paths we have now. I am happy that it is nothing like it was as compared to now it was pretty brutal i'll admit. (dont even start me on farming mats for raids like pots bandages whipper root tubers night dragons breath getting FR NR Frost R gear etc utter nightmare)

  10. #230
    I know I'm not nostalgic, because I love WoW music from vanilla and all expansions so far.
    But WoW changed too much over time, it's like totally different game. I still remember many vanilla horde and alliance players on my realm. But everything changed with cross realm battlegrounds/dungeons/raids.
    So in my opinion, it's getting worse.

  11. #231
    Scarab Lord MasterOfKnees's Avatar
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    Well, it's certainly A LOT better by today's standards. However, back then WoW was just so big of a game, it was unbelievable. MoP certainly isn't as groundbreaking by today's standards as Vanilla was by then's standards.

  12. #232
    the only real problem i see with wow atm is that they removed hybrid tax. No reason to bring most of the dps anymore. Since hybrids can do everything and even better. Includings buffs and whatnot. Rogues are really shafted.

    Another thing is mods. Mods are way to freely handled now. Thats the main thingie dumbing down the game. I would love to see the progress on the mop raids without mods. It would take months for heroics to go down

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by glowpipe View Post
    the only real problem i see with wow atm is that they removed hybrid tax. No reason to bring most of the dps anymore. Since hybrids can do everything and even better. Includings buffs and whatnot. Rogues are really shafted.

    Another thing is mods. Mods are way to freely handled now. Thats the main thingie dumbing down the game. I would love to see the progress on the mop raids without mods. It would take months for heroics to go down
    I am glad they removed hybrid tax. aside from bringing buffs to the table as a shaman I felt useless unless I was healing. mages/rogues/locks/hunters will always do well in DPS. This notion of dps classes being replaced is mostly unfounded in normal raiding guilds (class stacking does happen in very cutting edge guilds) In SWP I do remember our guild stacking shamans for bloodlust, 1 shaman per group Wrath changes brought an end to this as well as swapping people from group to another. (we would swap a shaman from a low dps group into the rogue/mage group and bloodlust them again after the 1st shamans ran out)

    Still hybrid tax was better than the state of hybrids in vanilla, in raiding it was heal or bust. if you were not a healing shaman druid or paladin you didnt raid (same for priest too) some rare exceptions might have been made but I didnt see many of these ever.

  14. #234
    Loved to explore all the game for the first time...leveling was really a long journey and not the 2 days trip it is today.
    Loved the PVP grind (yes indeed) and the thrill to check the ladder everyday to see who was falling behind...catching up.
    Loved the server community, that you meet the same people when searching for dungeon groups, knew the "good" tanks or healers or been one of them, even to kill the same bloody guys from the other faction everyday (some in deep respect and some...yeah..).
    Loved all the tiny details that are gone now for convinience reasons (yeah I liked mixing poisons and getting shards)
    Loved the feeling of progressing through content...each time you managed to down that one boss you whiped on for weeks you saw a new one for the first time.
    Loved a lot of things back then

    Hated (!) to micromanage 40 people in a raid and continously fight for the few good ones with other guilds
    Hated how bad class balance and itimisation was (Yeah your durid is good for nothing but healing and still priests do this much better then you)
    Hated how bizar the PVP balancing was - some clases ruled others like nothing you see today (really) and on top of it gear (PVE gear) was such a huge advantage.
    Hated a lot of things back then

    Overall I enjoyed the direction until BC...hated the very beginning of WotlK...like Ulduar (obviously) and LK HC...also the start of cataclysm...found nice things that kept me playing in every expac. All the small things I disliked however managed to drive me away at the end of Cata.

    Nice times...but I dont miss them

  15. #235
    Immortal Maklor's Avatar
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    Game mechanics and everything is better in every way, it's a fact.

    You will however never get the feeling you had when you played in vanilla.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by theK1ll577 View Post
    People have always been assholes in /2, content was never harder then it currently is, and the game has not been as dumbed down as you lead yourself on to believe. I'm probably writing this up right now due to the Old WoW vs. New WoW argument going on in /2 by people who have no idea what the game was even like back then. Vanilla was a fresh MMO experience that I played and raided as a young teen, and so I have memories of it in the mindset of a mere child. At that age your way of thinking is much different then it is now as I play the game in my twenties. The fond memories I have have a completely different feel then the new ones I have created in Cata, but that is not because the game has changed, only my mind and way of thinking has. As a teenager I took pride and joy acting and thinking like a child, participating in trolling and camping people who couldn't defend themselves on my rogue. I loved playing for hours and hours and participated in MUCH forum drama because that is what teenagers do.
    Not sure how other server communities were like back in vanilla, but on Ravencrest-EU, the community was pretty nice and at most people joked at eachother in trade chat, but not in the harmful way.

    On top of that, ninja's where shunned. No guilds would invite ninjas, they were simply cast out of the server community....

    We had a rogue on the server who had ninjaed 2-3 molten core epics from the one of the top guilds on the server. Whenever he was spotted, his coords got posted in trade hat and within minutes 10-20 people had him on follow while spamming /spit.

    But all that were before dungeon finder & paid services arrived and offered ninjas & idiots anonymity...


    Those who chose option 3 either never played vanilla or dont remember the good times.
    Last edited by Hovsa; 2012-11-28 at 02:45 PM.

  17. #237
    The Lightbringer Ciddy's Avatar
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    I think the game world felt bigger back then. That's why so many people talk about how they miss vanilla. WoW was new and exciting back then, especially for those of us like me who were complete noobs to MMORPGs back then. You can't replace the feeling you get from playing something like that for the first time. I think the Tauren quests in Mulgore were what got me hooked. I was playing with music/ambient sounds on and everything. Everything since then is just taking the original game and adding more to it. We're seeing a lot of new things, but the general game doesn't feel so new anymore.

    That being said, I think the game has improved a lot since then. I'm pretty happy with where it's gone.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Ciddy View Post
    I think the game world felt bigger back then. That's why so many people talk about how they miss vanilla. WoW was new and exciting back then, especially for those of us like me who were complete noobs to MMORPGs back then. You can't replace the feeling you get from playing something like that for the first time. I think the Tauren quests in Mulgore were what got me hooked. I was playing with music/ambient sounds on and everything. Everything since then is just taking the original game and adding more to it. We're seeing a lot of new things, but the general game doesn't feel so new anymore.

    That being said, I think the game has improved a lot since then. I'm pretty happy with where it's gone.
    You nailed it, Tauren quests in mulgore I LOVED the music and everything. Going to thunderbluff for the thirst time and doing the quest with the spirit wolf thing. brilliant. Mulgore to this day is my fav area for atmosphere despite what happens in the rest of wow it always felt like mulgore was this nice little place that wouldnt see wars/cataclysms! :P

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by glowpipe View Post
    the only real problem i see with wow atm is that they removed hybrid tax. No reason to bring most of the dps anymore. Since hybrids can do everything and even better. Includings buffs and whatnot. Rogues are really shafted.
    "Hybrid tax" sounds not bad, I remeber SHAMAN? => HEAL, PALADIN? => HEAL, PRIEST? => HEAL, DRUID? => HEAL...

    I played a Rogue and my main will allways be a Rogue but I still think, after 7 years of playing, that the hybrid tax was a bad thing.
    "Hybrid tax" and the "Holy Trinity", thats what I hated the most in Vanilla. YOU HAD TO HAVE Warrior-Priest-Mage even for LBRS... It was not good, not fun and group/raid composition was boring as hell.

    Sure I liked vanilla WoW, I liked to pvp before the Honor-Ponts existed. I liked doing dungeon runs, without valor points. I enjoyed beeing in a guild, before guild perks.

    But I know very well, there were hours/days with no character progression, because I couldnt find a dungeon group, because there wer no Battlegrounds, because I got no spot in the main raid or because there wer no other item upgrade path beyond raiding in 40m size raids, in big guilds.

    So I like MoP very much. I like it when I log in anytime of the day and I can do *something* to progress with my character. I can do dailys, Repfarming for very good gear. I can do RandomDungeon, RandomPvP, RandomLFR anytime.

    If you played vanilla, like most people casually, then you should know what "LACK OF CONTENT" really means. :-)

  20. #240
    Immortal Maklor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hovsa View Post
    Those who chose option 3 either never played vanilla or dont remember the good times.
    I sure remember and cherish it, HOWEVER the game is better now on every level.

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