WoW from a Vanilla player's perspective.

**Zuben** · 2012-08-21, 09:56 AM

The sense of community is definitely much lesser than it used to be and there's not really any mystery left as over the years I've checked every nook and cranny of the world, but the game features and potential on the other hand feel greater than ever. Lore presentation is much better than in Vanilla, and that's pretty much my main interest these days, so I'd say the game is doing pretty well. I can get the sense of mystery by exploring the worlds of other games anyway.

**Assass1n** · 2012-08-21, 03:10 PM

I def agree that the sense of community is lesser. You pretty much knew who was who on your server back in the vanilla days. But, as a lot of pointed out, WoW has turned for the better over the years. People may not believe it, but blizz def tries to cater to the mass amounts of QQ in the WoW forums.

**Judaest** · 2012-08-21, 10:41 PM

Logging in, ganking lowbies, and feeding adolescent ADD in vanilla doesn't a valid opinion make about current content and the business direction Bliz / Activision has taken.

I sincerely hope no one takes this post as troll, or as flaming. I could type for days about this subject, but rather decided to share a simple small thought or two, since we seem to be in the spirit.

Originally Posted by theK1ll577

"the game HAS evolved and been updated to reflect the ease of access market"

No one can refute this, and I personally believe that the above philosophy is what turns people away. More often than not however, people aren't quite able to put their finger on what it is about the game that is turning them away and by proxy, they cant properly articulate their displeasure (not that it would matter anyway, but more on that in a bit). I started playing this game as an adult, so the accusation that that the game only seems like its changed, when really the change was with me is irrelevant. Also, the bar graph poll seems a bit irreverent as well because so many of the players that dislike the current WoW model are already long gone. Its simply not the whole story.

It seems to me that a large chunk of the player population became addicted to a game that presented a challenge. When you saw a high-end raider in Org, you were like "holy SHIT! How do I get gear like that? How do I get that title? How can I pull do THAT much damage??". There was a goal, and it inspired intelligent, committed, goal oriented gamers (and turning non-gamers into gamers - yours truly) to work toward being THAT player.

Yes, I AM a WoTLK player, but NO I have not, and will never simply echo the bemoaning of children about how the game was ruined, as was suggested by the OP. I don't believe the game has been completely ruined (yet -I still think there's at least 1 more xpac before WoW officially becomes a console game. Right on que with the release of the fabled "Titan"), but in 3 years they have SIGNIFICANTLY changed the entire dynamic of having to EARN your keep, and be proud of yourself upon arrival. And the dynamic continues to slowly but steadily slide into that very particular direction, diminishing the sense of accomplishment for committed players along the way.

I very, VERY firmly believe that what Bliz/Activision is doing to the dynamic of the game is a very carefully calculated move to make WoW the as easy to use as a console game, commitment free, mindless cash-cow as possible. If you look at it from a business standpoint, and keeping in mind "Titan" being on the never-ending horizon, it makes perfect sense. That seems confusing as I re-read it, but the gist is that its business 101 - If you want to get people hooked on a new product, you first have to convince people that they don't want the old product. Most importantly, it has to feel like THEIR idea.

I could type for days articulating my thoughts on this, but its pointless. Even if you DO compose a well thought out and comprehensible argument, complete with alternative paths for players with different focuses, 99% of the time you will be ignored or called demeaning names like "special snowflake" in "blue" posts. But more often than not, you will be snidely told by the players who have benefited from the great homogenization of WoW to "wait and see", or "try it out before you bitch" - both statements of which are a complete joke, because by the time it gets to the stage where ANYONE can "try it out" (ala beta), its already FAR too late in development stages to change anything - the shortbus has already left the parking lot.

The real shame is that once you start giving things to people that they can and should earn for themselves, you take away the persons incentive to work for what they have. You rob them of coming to know the sense of pride and accomplishment that comes from being one of only a few. I for one am pretty pissed that I missed that opportunity in WoW, and I really hope that Titan re-delivers whats been taken. Either that, or Ill just have to get a life >_>

**Tacotruck** · 2012-08-24, 04:24 AM

Originally Posted by Judaest

I really hope that Titan re-delivers whats been taken. Either that, or Ill just have to get a life >_>

Expect Titan to have LFG/LFR or it's equivalent baked in from the start. Blizz knows who the majority of it's fans are and the "top" handful of a % of the fanbase alone is not enough of a subscriber base. In what world does a business model where you alienate 90% of the fans to please 10% make sense? It would be like professional sports refusing to broadcast games because real fans make the effort to come see games live. Fan goodwill AND profits would plummet to levels that would make the entire enterprise unsustainable.

**theK1ll577** · 2012-08-24, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by Tacotruck

Expect Titan to have LFG/LFR or it's equivalent baked in from the start. Blizz knows who the majority of it's fans are and the "top" handful of a % of the fanbase alone is not enough of a subscriber base. In what world does a business model where you alienate 90% of the fans to please 10% make sense? It would be like professional sports refusing to broadcast games because real fans make the effort to come see games live. Fan goodwill AND profits would plummet to levels that would make the entire enterprise unsustainable.

Wasn't titan already said to be a family oriented game? I've heard it was a shooter from a pretty reliable source, a new kind of game.

**Drdraenei** · 2012-08-24, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by sk68

If you are going to poll, then at least make the choices understandable.

1. Worst then it was.
2. Still the same old.
3. Better then it was.

I have no idea what "Worst then it was" is supposed to mean. Is this even English? I can understand that "then" is probably "than", but the phrase "Worst then it was" makes zero sense--when you are comparing something using "than", how on earth does one use "worst" instead of "worse". Did you mean "Worse than it was"?

You said in point 3 better then it was,I have no idea what "Better then it was" is supposed to mean, actually I do. and see no issue with this at all, just wanted to point out how harmless themistake was and how much you over reacted, but thats troll!

**Huehuecoyotl** · 2012-08-24, 03:48 PM

the world used to feel dangerous. levelling used to be at least some form of challenge, and went some way to teaching you how to play your class. these days the world is neutered, and you follow the path set for you as you can virtually AFK your way to 85, its so easy.

that part at least is much, much worse.

**Drdraenei** · 2012-08-24, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by laserguns

Still the same old

Raiding isn't as much fun and the world is dead. I feel sorry for WoW players who didn't experience Azeroth when it was just 1-60 and there were loads of players running around, when you could get 200 people fighting in Tarren Mill for no particular reason.

But the questing is much better, the default UI is much better, there is more random stuff to do (for a new player at least), the servers aren't down half the time etc. Evens out really.

edit: The difference between killing Illidan and waiting for new content is only a few thousand guilds killed Illidan when it was the top raid, compared to everybody being able to kill Madness on LFR now. So instead of 100k players waiting for new raids you have 10 million waiting for new raids.

I kinda agree, my guild where just stepping into black temple round about the time the nerf came, quite frankly I was dissapointed WOTLK came out, I could have quite happily continued with TBC for a few more months, maybe even a year.

Now we're waiting months on end for content.

**koutalianos** · 2012-11-24, 01:49 AM

Well i am a rogue too, from the day 1 i played this game (Little bit before TBC). What i miss the most is how unique were the classes at that time. Rogue for example. We had to learn how to use weapons, how to pick locks, choose three kind of weapons skills (fist/dagger=5% crit, axe/sword=5% extra attack, Mace=5% stun), each talent tree had its meaning, gear was soooo difficult to take. I remember geting in Karazan with my pvp swords, the only epic weapon i could have for a long time! I mean each class had something unique. Now all have stuns, three classes can use somekind of stealth etc.

The bigest mistake they did, is that every class had each own business to do except from everything else. Now all are the same.

**Geekissexy** · 2012-11-24, 01:58 AM

I agree with almost everything you said, but you have got to be kidding me when you said that "The game has not been dumbed down".

That makes me feel like you didn't actually play at all in Vanilla.

- You actually had to use CC back then in normal groups, heroics, and raids! If you didn't most times it meant a wipe. You couldn't just AoE down all the trash pulls like you can now. Not only that, but you had to be careful which abilities you used around them because everything broke CC too.

- When you saw someone with epics back in the day, you know they had worked their butts off to get them. You had to grind out fire resist, frost resist, and nature resist for the older raids. Now you can walk in and kill all the bosses without having to worry about any of these things.

- Gold was much harder to acquire for most people. Getting your first epic mount felt like a true achievement.

- Making groups was a lot more difficult. You had to use summoning stones unless you had a warlock, and you had to sit in chat and hope you could find a full 5-man, or hope people in your guild wanted to run. Don't even get me started on 40 man raids. I can't even believe we pulled that off anymore.

**Aquamonkey** · 2012-11-24, 02:02 AM