Poll: Is the game worst then it was?

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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by azzgunther View Post
    This is about the struggle and the rewards inherent to succeeding in the face of adversity. Epic items were very difficult to get in Vanilla - don't water that point down by saying they "were not as easy". When you finally got a major upgrade it was a great feeling. I still remember, over seven years later, the feeling of getting my Azuresong Mageblade in MC and turning in my Hear of Hakkar for the server's first Zandalarian Hero Charm. 20 people came with me after the raid just to watch. Which brings me to the next point, addressed to everybody who says the community isn't different...

    About five of those people weren't even in my guild. They flew down from Stormwind because they thought it was cool that we killed Hakkar and wanted to be part of the little ceremony with the NPCs. I got congratulations in a thread on the realm forums the next day and people I'd never talked to were giving kind words to my guild and me. Those realm forums had at least 20 threads updated within the last few hours - they were active. Then there's the standard stuff we hear: server-wide vents for PvP, blacklisting certain players from an entire server, and a sense that people know you and you know them. It really was a different atmosphere and that's the biggest thing WoW has lost. It existed because of the innate fish bowl that we were all stuck within and also because we were forced to interact to get quests and dungeons done.

    Those two things are what I miss most about Vanilla. The sense of accomplishment is largely gone from the game for me and that's probably largely due to outgrowing it but I believe there's an added bit of juice when you drag 40 people, coordinated by class officers because there were 5+ of each class, through a difficult boss fight that most of them had never encountered anything of the like. When you got rewarded with a very rare purple it was a big deal.

    The rest of Vanilla I don't really miss. I can appreciate things about it but they've come a long, long way in making the game function better. Because of the improvements - of which have been covered ad nauseam in the thread already - I voted "no difference". The changes largely offset, and what is gained balances what was lost.
    You and I remember vanilla differently. First few months it was hard to get epics (near non existent) outside of raids (rare drops boes etc) At the end of vanilla (which I aimed my post at) it wasnt that bad. You had MC pugs going in a lot getting out gear. It is nothing on wrath/cata granted but it wasnt that hard. I saw loads of onyxia and mc pugs. Hell I even sold spots to people just before TBC in raids I ran (pug ones) for reserve items for gold.

    They also opened up the PVP items for honour and badges right at the end of vanilla. to help gear people for TBC.

    I still remember replacing my dungeon tier (elements set iirc) for shaman tier 1. My first epic, VENDOR SHAKER! I bid on it as a nice pvp upgrade people were shocked in my guild that I wanted it as shamans were healers. I came from a pvp guild called grand theft kodo and still did a lot of BGs so it was cool.

    *edit* I just remembered they offered a dungeon tier set upgrade later on as well afaik? some quests and gold etc were required, I think they also introduced ZG and aq20 to help gear players up as I regulary ran pugs for both of those as well. Still it was nothing compared to the gear paths we have now. I am happy that it is nothing like it was as compared to now it was pretty brutal i'll admit. (dont even start me on farming mats for raids like pots bandages whipper root tubers night dragons breath getting FR NR Frost R gear etc utter nightmare)
    Last edited by khalltusk; 2012-11-28 at 02:00 PM.

  2. #222
    Deleted
    I know I'm not nostalgic, because I love WoW music from vanilla and all expansions so far.
    But WoW changed too much over time, it's like totally different game. I still remember many vanilla horde and alliance players on my realm. But everything changed with cross realm battlegrounds/dungeons/raids.
    So in my opinion, it's getting worse.

  3. #223
    Well, it's certainly A LOT better by today's standards. However, back then WoW was just so big of a game, it was unbelievable. MoP certainly isn't as groundbreaking by today's standards as Vanilla was by then's standards.

  4. #224
    the only real problem i see with wow atm is that they removed hybrid tax. No reason to bring most of the dps anymore. Since hybrids can do everything and even better. Includings buffs and whatnot. Rogues are really shafted.

    Another thing is mods. Mods are way to freely handled now. Thats the main thingie dumbing down the game. I would love to see the progress on the mop raids without mods. It would take months for heroics to go down

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by glowpipe View Post
    the only real problem i see with wow atm is that they removed hybrid tax. No reason to bring most of the dps anymore. Since hybrids can do everything and even better. Includings buffs and whatnot. Rogues are really shafted.

    Another thing is mods. Mods are way to freely handled now. Thats the main thingie dumbing down the game. I would love to see the progress on the mop raids without mods. It would take months for heroics to go down
    I am glad they removed hybrid tax. aside from bringing buffs to the table as a shaman I felt useless unless I was healing. mages/rogues/locks/hunters will always do well in DPS. This notion of dps classes being replaced is mostly unfounded in normal raiding guilds (class stacking does happen in very cutting edge guilds) In SWP I do remember our guild stacking shamans for bloodlust, 1 shaman per group Wrath changes brought an end to this as well as swapping people from group to another. (we would swap a shaman from a low dps group into the rogue/mage group and bloodlust them again after the 1st shamans ran out)

    Still hybrid tax was better than the state of hybrids in vanilla, in raiding it was heal or bust. if you were not a healing shaman druid or paladin you didnt raid (same for priest too) some rare exceptions might have been made but I didnt see many of these ever.

  6. #226
    Stood in the Fire Sathnick's Avatar
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    Loved to explore all the game for the first time...leveling was really a long journey and not the 2 days trip it is today.
    Loved the PVP grind (yes indeed) and the thrill to check the ladder everyday to see who was falling behind...catching up.
    Loved the server community, that you meet the same people when searching for dungeon groups, knew the "good" tanks or healers or been one of them, even to kill the same bloody guys from the other faction everyday (some in deep respect and some...yeah..).
    Loved all the tiny details that are gone now for convinience reasons (yeah I liked mixing poisons and getting shards)
    Loved the feeling of progressing through content...each time you managed to down that one boss you whiped on for weeks you saw a new one for the first time.
    Loved a lot of things back then

    Hated (!) to micromanage 40 people in a raid and continously fight for the few good ones with other guilds
    Hated how bad class balance and itimisation was (Yeah your durid is good for nothing but healing and still priests do this much better then you)
    Hated how bizar the PVP balancing was - some clases ruled others like nothing you see today (really) and on top of it gear (PVE gear) was such a huge advantage.
    Hated a lot of things back then

    Overall I enjoyed the direction until BC...hated the very beginning of WotlK...like Ulduar (obviously) and LK HC...also the start of cataclysm...found nice things that kept me playing in every expac. All the small things I disliked however managed to drive me away at the end of Cata.

    Nice times...but I dont miss them

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by theK1ll577 View Post
    People have always been assholes in /2, content was never harder then it currently is, and the game has not been as dumbed down as you lead yourself on to believe. I'm probably writing this up right now due to the Old WoW vs. New WoW argument going on in /2 by people who have no idea what the game was even like back then. Vanilla was a fresh MMO experience that I played and raided as a young teen, and so I have memories of it in the mindset of a mere child. At that age your way of thinking is much different then it is now as I play the game in my twenties. The fond memories I have have a completely different feel then the new ones I have created in Cata, but that is not because the game has changed, only my mind and way of thinking has. As a teenager I took pride and joy acting and thinking like a child, participating in trolling and camping people who couldn't defend themselves on my rogue. I loved playing for hours and hours and participated in MUCH forum drama because that is what teenagers do.
    Not sure how other server communities were like back in vanilla, but on Ravencrest-EU, the community was pretty nice and at most people joked at eachother in trade chat, but not in the harmful way.

    On top of that, ninja's where shunned. No guilds would invite ninjas, they were simply cast out of the server community....

    We had a rogue on the server who had ninjaed 2-3 molten core epics from the one of the top guilds on the server. Whenever he was spotted, his coords got posted in trade hat and within minutes 10-20 people had him on follow while spamming /spit.

    But all that were before dungeon finder & paid services arrived and offered ninjas & idiots anonymity...


    Those who chose option 3 either never played vanilla or dont remember the good times.
    Last edited by Hovsa; 2012-11-28 at 02:45 PM.

  8. #228
    I think the game world felt bigger back then. That's why so many people talk about how they miss vanilla. WoW was new and exciting back then, especially for those of us like me who were complete noobs to MMORPGs back then. You can't replace the feeling you get from playing something like that for the first time. I think the Tauren quests in Mulgore were what got me hooked. I was playing with music/ambient sounds on and everything. Everything since then is just taking the original game and adding more to it. We're seeing a lot of new things, but the general game doesn't feel so new anymore.

    That being said, I think the game has improved a lot since then. I'm pretty happy with where it's gone.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Ciddy View Post
    I think the game world felt bigger back then. That's why so many people talk about how they miss vanilla. WoW was new and exciting back then, especially for those of us like me who were complete noobs to MMORPGs back then. You can't replace the feeling you get from playing something like that for the first time. I think the Tauren quests in Mulgore were what got me hooked. I was playing with music/ambient sounds on and everything. Everything since then is just taking the original game and adding more to it. We're seeing a lot of new things, but the general game doesn't feel so new anymore.

    That being said, I think the game has improved a lot since then. I'm pretty happy with where it's gone.
    You nailed it, Tauren quests in mulgore I LOVED the music and everything. Going to thunderbluff for the thirst time and doing the quest with the spirit wolf thing. brilliant. Mulgore to this day is my fav area for atmosphere despite what happens in the rest of wow it always felt like mulgore was this nice little place that wouldnt see wars/cataclysms! :P

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by glowpipe View Post
    the only real problem i see with wow atm is that they removed hybrid tax. No reason to bring most of the dps anymore. Since hybrids can do everything and even better. Includings buffs and whatnot. Rogues are really shafted.
    "Hybrid tax" sounds not bad, I remeber SHAMAN? => HEAL, PALADIN? => HEAL, PRIEST? => HEAL, DRUID? => HEAL...

    I played a Rogue and my main will allways be a Rogue but I still think, after 7 years of playing, that the hybrid tax was a bad thing.
    "Hybrid tax" and the "Holy Trinity", thats what I hated the most in Vanilla. YOU HAD TO HAVE Warrior-Priest-Mage even for LBRS... It was not good, not fun and group/raid composition was boring as hell.

    Sure I liked vanilla WoW, I liked to pvp before the Honor-Ponts existed. I liked doing dungeon runs, without valor points. I enjoyed beeing in a guild, before guild perks.

    But I know very well, there were hours/days with no character progression, because I couldnt find a dungeon group, because there wer no Battlegrounds, because I got no spot in the main raid or because there wer no other item upgrade path beyond raiding in 40m size raids, in big guilds.

    So I like MoP very much. I like it when I log in anytime of the day and I can do *something* to progress with my character. I can do dailys, Repfarming for very good gear. I can do RandomDungeon, RandomPvP, RandomLFR anytime.

    If you played vanilla, like most people casually, then you should know what "LACK OF CONTENT" really means. :-)
    -

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by Ange View Post
    "Hybrid tax" sounds not bad, I remeber SHAMAN? => HEAL, PALADIN? => HEAL, PRIEST? => HEAL, DRUID? => HEAL...

    I played a Rogue and my main will allways be a Rogue but I still think, after 7 years of playing, that the hybrid tax was a bad thing.
    "Hybrid tax" and the "Holy Trinity", thats what I hated the most in Vanilla. YOU HAD TO HAVE Warrior-Priest-Mage even for LBRS... It was not good, not fun and group/raid composition was boring as hell.

    Sure I liked vanilla WoW, I liked to pvp before the Honor-Ponts existed. I liked doing dungeon runs, without valor points. I enjoyed beeing in a guild, before guild perks.

    But I know very well, there were hours/days with no character progression, because I couldnt find a dungeon group, because there wer no Battlegrounds, because I got no spot in the main raid or because there wer no other item upgrade path beyond raiding in 40m size raids, in big guilds.

    So I like MoP very much. I like it when I log in anytime of the day and I can do *something* to progress with my character. I can do dailys, Repfarming for very good gear. I can do RandomDungeon, RandomPvP, RandomLFR anytime.

    If you played vanilla, like most people casually, then you should know what "LACK OF CONTENT" really means. :-)
    This is something I do remember,

    The time there were no battlegrounds, world pvp is all you had. Most of it was ganking people in BRM or maybe fighting over a world boss. Tarren mill... was the only real PVP there was. Then battle grounds were added you HAD to go to the battleground entrance and queue from there. they then added later on NPCs in major cities to queue from (now you just click a button anywhere to queue)

    When all I did was PVP I had some very good PVP gear, (got to blood guard I think when I moved to a pve guild) initially I went a healing/enhancement spec then switched to resto when my warrior friend came along for battlegrounds. Gave him WF totem and watched the kills come in as I healed him.

    You also used lower ranks of spells to reduce mana cost (for healing in raids or interrupts). That is something I kinda missed a bit but its nothing major.

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    You nailed it, Tauren quests in mulgore I LOVED the music and everything. Going to thunderbluff for the thirst time and doing the quest with the spirit wolf thing. brilliant. Mulgore to this day is my fav area for atmosphere despite what happens in the rest of wow it always felt like mulgore was this nice little place that wouldnt see wars/cataclysms! :P
    Yeah. I think I would've been perfectly happy if the entire game turned out to be a bigass Mulgore where you just did hunting quests all day.

  13. #233
    Adding anecdotal evidence:

    Got 45min UDStrat runs down to just under 20minutes. No CC, wearing no epics. Just brawling.
    It was fast. It was fun!
    Just came down to understanding game mechanics.
    Part of the illusion on why I feel so many people remember vanilla as harder is because of their lack of understanding for mechanics.

  14. #234
    The "world" no longer feels like a "world". Once they started pumping out instance after instance after instance and disconnecting the game world the game went down. I still play it, dont get me wrong but the game in my personal opinion and a few buddies who've played since launch all agree that it isnt nearly the same as it once was. Raids dont "feel" like raids. More so bombrush bosses, collect loot, onto the next boss. Its exactly like dungeons. Days of Molten core raids, BWL raids, actually planning, communicating with ppl and your guild, and when there was the feeling of an actual world, THATS when the game was great.

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Ciddy View Post
    Yeah. I think I would've been perfectly happy if the entire game turned out to be a bigass Mulgore where you just did hunting quests all day.
    hehe :P The leveling experience then was great purely because it was better than anything around. I also leveled up at night that first day as I got home from work my mates were on vent playing their level 20-30 characters and I was making my fresh level 1 for the first time. (the leveling now is so much better but ofc its not the same as when I first played as this is all familiar to me now)

    I still remember that night, my friends all doing dungeons im level 4 or something in first hour and they wanted to know what race/class I took. I said "Tauren shaman as we got wookie on a warrior ovego on a priest and nick on a rogue". Ovego stated shaman seems good idea as I can heal and dps and tank. I was chuffed! sure enough I caught my mates levels up and we then hit the same instances together. I did have to learn the quests as I went (actually read the quests and had to figure out where it was I needed to go and what to kill/click and check thottbot or ask if I was stumped) Now I can just see on the map but back then and even into wrath I did it the old fashioned way. Do I prefer the new way? YES 100% yes!

    Still Mulgore was and is a fantastic looking zone. I do wish they would update thunderbluff a bit but ill settle for baine getting some screen time.

  16. #236
    I just came back to WoW after a 9 month absence. I've honestly PvP'ed for roughly a week straight and have earned all the honor gear I can get already. PvPing every day in vanilla, have people queue for my pre mades to reach and achieve High Warlord took absolutley forever. It was challenging, and took more than a week to achieve.

    I don't PvE anymore, I don't have the time or it. However, when I did PvE in vanilla I was still in highschool and I generally had the time to raid full time after school hours. I was in a top notch raiding guild on my server. All I remember is it taking months to down 4 horsemen. Now I see guilds and pugs clearing heroic raids in a week as well.

    My view will always remain that Vanilla and TBC were the games that took dedication and skill to actually feel like you achieved and won something, but that's just my perspective.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    I sure remember and cherish it, HOWEVER the game is better now on every level.
    On every level?

    • Paid server transfers have left High pop servers close to 1:0 or 0:1 horde/ally ratio, while low pop servers are dead wastes.
    • General anonymity through paid services and dungeon finder has affected the community for the worse.
    • Exploring is dead... you can fly everywhere within 10 minutes or less.
    • You can't join a battleground without half your team being bots.
    • Blizzard are either clueless or just don't care when it comes to balancing PvP. (pushing hybrid classes into healer roles again)
    • Any1 i ever knew in wow has stopped... (not because "they grew up", but because the game is a cashcow at this point)

    I think that pretty much sums up how i currently feel about a game from the company who replaced their brilliant lead developers in late vanilla and replaced them with idiots like Greg Street, Jeffrey Kappland & Co.
    Last edited by Hovsa; 2012-11-28 at 03:48 PM.

  18. #238
    I am Murloc! Tomana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hovsa View Post
    [*]Blizzard are either clueless or just don't care when it comes to balancing PvP. (pushing hybrid classes into healer roles again)
    Because vanilla PVP was absolutely balanced?
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  19. #239
    Pandaren Monk Edison's Avatar
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    The game is worse now imo, there's no "adventure" anymore. I've leveled a couple of alts just to have something to do and everything is dumbed down, handed to you and just way to easy. You can't really die at all unless you're extremely stupid. Epics is being handed to you and and everything is just bad now. Yes i'm nostalgic, but Vanilla and TBC was better IN MY Opinion.
    I thought I did, but apparently I don't

    If you die you die but if you don't die you still die.

  20. #240
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Back in my day, those stones were used to queue for dungeons and not for summoning.
    Yeah right you queued for dungeons in Vanilla...

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