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  1. #21
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Final Fantasy 14 is relaunching pretty soon. So it's not really dead either, fwiw.
    Dead, no, but very much a failure at the moment, to the point that they had to remake the game from scratch, issue a public apology, and make plans to relaunch it, which all costs more money on top of what they should already have spent on what they're now scrapping.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    Dead, no, but very much a failure at the moment, to the point that they had to remake the game from scratch, issue a public apology, and make plans to relaunch it, which all costs more money on top of what they should already have spent on what they're now scrapping.
    Indeed.

    If I may add my own opinion; FF14 was awful! :s
    Last edited by Fencers; 2012-08-18 at 10:03 PM.

  3. #23
    I kinda feel sorry for mmo developers you get 1 shot and then they kinda vanish what ever happend to mythic??

  4. #24
    Mechagnome Hjalmtyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solidsheep View Post
    I kinda feel sorry for mmo developers you get 1 shot and then they kinda vanish what ever happend to mythic??
    Some of the old Mythic employees now work at ZeniMax which is currently developing The Elder Scrolls Online
    "Do you know what it's like to fall on the floor, cry your guts out til you got no more? Hey man, now you're really livin'" - Mark Everett

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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by solidsheep View Post
    I kinda feel sorry for mmo developers you get 1 shot and then they kinda vanish what ever happend to mythic??
    Merged with bioware

  6. #26
    Mythic sorta made SWTOR.

    A bunch of their devs went to other companies over the years. But EA bought Mythic and rolled it into Bioware/Mythic.

  7. #27
    Bloodsail Admiral Supajayare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    Which MMORPGs are considered failures? Even EverQuest, the game that WoW supposedly "replaced" years ago, is still being played by many, and still making money.
    Two come into mind: Earth and Beyond, Asheron's Call 2... Both closed down within a few years.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Solitare-sp View Post
    From looking at it, it is a step forward i do think. Take PvP for example. i'm sure when the vast majority of people think of what PvP is, it should be open battleground massive warfare, getting away from the articifical games like 'capture the flag' or cap the area etc. Even more so when limited to 8 or 10 or 15 a side.

    Thats one reason why both WvW and Dynamic events in Guild Wars 2 look so good and interesting. It puts the Massively back into the game. Large social groups of people coming together.

    Thats what I think a lot of people, especially those which are MMO veterns from the early days of things like WoW are looking for. A way to put community right back in the heart of the game. Although recent additions like group finders etc make things easier for games, it destroy's the links which people form.

    Breaking the trinity should also help with this, as people won't be forced now to compromise how they play into roles.
    This is what I don't understand. How do Dynamic Events put the community back in a game? DE's are made up of random players who can enter or leave the event at any time who do not have any kind of coordinated approach to the event. Exactly how does that create a community? It's like saying doing Tol Barad creates a community because a bunch of people on a server are in the BG at the same time (it doesn't btw). I simply don't see the difference. Did anyone notice a big community being created from Rift's dynamic events? I didn't.

    Similarly, how do WvW events put the community back in a game when they, like DE's, are made up of anyone who happens by? If anything, and particularly since GW2 is F2P, there would be more randomness and less community than even WOW.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggoman View Post
    GW2 is basically the ideal MMO for the veteran MMORPG player, the gamers that have a finer taste for games. Gone is the gear treadmill and faction grinding. The scripted bread crumb questing is replaced by a open ended dynamic leveling system. PvP is also reaching for an ideal, massive in scale and weighted more for skill. The armor and weapon graphics are probably the most amazing in any genre at the moment.

    GW2 won't be part of the MMORPG war, that "war" is really only for those that took the blue pill. GW2 is the place where gamers go when they take the red pill and realize "Oh shit... I'm supposed to play games for fun". Not everyone will take the red pill, in fact it is probably a very minor population that would.
    Massive scale and skill don't really go together. It's not scripted bread crumb quests? It seems like the same thing SWTOR did with cinematics, but worse because it's just two people talking with a flashy background. That and the quests you actually did were the same bullshit kill X collect Y. I will give them the fact that they did have some interesting things on occasion with the events like putting out fires, but standing by something pressing 1 isn't exciting or stimulating in my book. You're putting the game on a pedestal and not having the objective discussion the OP so wishes to have.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcasm View Post
    It's not that drugs are for people who can't handle reality. Reality is for people who can't handle drugs.

  10. #30
    Mechagnome Hjalmtyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxf2dxx View Post
    Massive scale and skill don't really go together. It's not scripted bread crumb quests? It seems like the same thing SWTOR did with cinematics, but worse because it's just two people talking with a flashy background. That and the quests you actually did were the same bullshit kill X collect Y. I will give them the fact that they did have some interesting things on occasion with the events like putting out fires, but standing by something pressing 1 isn't exciting or stimulating in my book. You're putting the game on a pedestal and not having the objective discussion the OP so wishes to have.
    You do know the 'scripted breadcrumb quests' are only the personal story, right? You don't have cutscenes in quests that aren't personal story quests. It seems like you're focusing on the minority of the stuff to do and using it as an excuse to compare it to other games unfairly. Also you're complaining about not having an objective discussion, yet you're here saying you don't like the art direction: 'except it's worse because it's just two people talking with a flashy background' In YOUR opinion that makes it worse, imo I like the way cutscenes are done out. They're enacted like a storybook. It's a very deliberate style, and style will ALWAYS be subjective.
    "Do you know what it's like to fall on the floor, cry your guts out til you got no more? Hey man, now you're really livin'" - Mark Everett

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  11. #31
    I don't agree with you OP, if anything the MMO genre is attracting more and more people to the genre. There are a multitude of choices, way more then just 5 years back. With the general casualization of the genre, the games also attract a wider audience then before.

    Every "universe" is getting its own MMO these days, Elder Scrolls is working on one for example... Books, Movies, they all become MMO's because there is a gigantic fanbase for them and the majority of them are gamers, if they aren't they might soon become gamers because they are fans.

    Now that I think of it... I wonder why there is no Harry Potter MMO out by now.

    Additionally I do not think that Guild Wars 2 will be a milestone in MMO history. While the dynamic events are nice there is a limit to what you can do in the game and after a certain amount of time you'll notice that people will also move on to a different game because GW has nothing new to offer anymore, its a guild VS guild game. The Hype is dangerous for a game considering what happend with swotor. I like swotor alot personally but I admit that it has mistakes that have to be solved, sadly enough its only something the playerbase can solve really.

  12. #32
    Mechagnome Hjalmtyr's Avatar
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    I think the point is that, while new MMOs are surfacing, people are saying they will not be as successful as X mmo, and this whole mindset of 'THE MMO to play' is hurting growth because people are less likely to move away from a popular MMO to try something new. Sure there's lots of choice, but lately people have stopped being happy with playing games because they're fun and started just clinging to the video game they know and they don't want to try anything new.

    For newcomers to the genre, there's tonnes of choice, but let's face it: Most of us have been here, what? At least 5 years, maybe even more. More accurately 8 years for myself, I know some people who've been playing MMOs since the late '90s. We're all dug into our trenches and only the brave few dare go over the top to investigate these strange new lands that have surfaced. The rest stick to the trench and shout 'YOU'RE ALL GOING TO DIE OUT THERE, IT'S NOTHING BUT TROUBLE!'
    "Do you know what it's like to fall on the floor, cry your guts out til you got no more? Hey man, now you're really livin'" - Mark Everett

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  13. #33
    The Lightbringer Karizee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hjalmtyr View Post
    'YOU'RE ALL GOING TO DIE OUT THERE, IT'S NOTHING BUT TROUBLE!'
    Made me rofl
    Morpheus: Do you believe that my being stronger or faster has anything to do with my muscles in this place? Do you think that's air you're breathing now?

  14. #34
    I am Murloc! Ryngo Blackratchet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hjalmtyr View Post
    FFXIV was an MMO? Must've been terrible, didn't even hear of it. Didn't they learn after FFXI that MMORPG models are not the best for a Final Fantasy game?

    .
    I'm not sure I understand. Sure, XI wasn't most gamers cup of tea, but it remains to be one of the most successful and long-living MMOs ever created. XIV had a astronomically bad launch, but it's going in a fantastic direction. I'll be extremely wary about it until I get my hands on the beta, but it's looking great.


    The video quality is horrid and none of it's in english, but it's recent. Fun stuff starts around 11:35

    (No intention to derail the thread, just informing the misinformed.)
    Last edited by Ryngo Blackratchet; 2012-08-19 at 12:06 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Herradura View Post
    This game attracts some of the most greedy assholes I've ever seen. It's mind boggling. They don't owe you a thing! You are the one who decides to pay them! It's a fucking video game!

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Hjalmtyr View Post
    I think the point is that, while new MMOs are surfacing, people are saying they will not be as successful as X mmo, and this whole mindset of 'THE MMO to play' is hurting growth because people are less likely to move away from a popular MMO to try something new. Sure there's lots of choice, but lately people have stopped being happy with playing games because they're fun and started just clinging to the video game they know and they don't want to try anything new.

    For newcomers to the genre, there's tonnes of choice, but let's face it: Most of us have been here, what? At least 5 years, maybe even more. More accurately 8 years for myself, I know some people who've been playing MMOs since the late '90s. We're all dug into our trenches and only the brave few dare go over the top to investigate these strange new lands that have surfaced. The rest stick to the trench and shout 'YOU'RE ALL GOING TO DIE OUT THERE, IT'S NOTHING BUT TROUBLE!'
    The thing is, newcomers to the genre will not show up on these forums. They are likely intrueged by the fact that the game they love or the book they love is creating a virtual online world open for everyone or they are invited by a friend...

    The only people shouting that a game will not be succesfull are regular forum critiques. MMO players have increased in overall population by far. If you read these forums sometimes you start wondering wich game would be good then? Since WoW sucks, Rift sucks, GW sucks, swotor sucks, Tera sucks,... I'm not going to name all MMO's but you get the picture. Most people who do explore rarely share it with these open forums. MMO champ population is not representative of the general MMO population.

  16. #36
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    All that line did was remind me of my thoughts when fighting Champion bosses during the first BWE, watching people run in with melee. Primarily against the giant wasp, because I never did figure out that one's tells.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  17. #37
    Mechagnome Hjalmtyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marverick66 View Post
    The thing is, newcomers to the genre will not show up on these forums. They are likely intrueged by the fact that the game they love or the book they love is creating a virtual online world open for everyone or they are invited by a friend...

    The only people shouting that a game will not be succesfull are regular forum critiques. MMO players have increased in overall population by far. If you read these forums sometimes you start wondering wich game would be good then? Since WoW sucks, Rift sucks, GW sucks, swotor sucks, Tera sucks,... I'm not going to name all MMO's but you get the picture. Most people who do explore rarely share it with these open forums. MMO champ population is not representative of the general MMO population.
    But newcomers look at things objectively. People who are already hardcore raiders in WoW, generally speaking, are reluctant to try out a different game because they have a lot to lose by quitting WoW. Newcomers don't have anything to lose. Will they get kicked from their raiding guild if they spend a month playing a different game? No, cause they dont have a raiding guild.

    Some people are scared to forfeit what they have for another game. For people who are experienced at the genre, getting into something that's different from what you know can be awkward and uncomfortable. More awkward and uncomfortable, in fact, than newcomers! When I first played GW1 the only MMO experience I had was a little bit of EQ and some WoW. I wasn't particularly good at either. I quit WoW just before BC (start of 2007) and played GW1 until just before wotlk was released. I rejoined WoW just before wotlk and I played until 4.2 in cata, when I went back to GW1 to try out hall of monuments.

    It was HORRIBLE, the controls were so damn clunky, I couldn't do anything right, everything felt so crap and unresponsive, it was a nightmare. This game that I had no problem with before because I had no experience with MMOs was so easy to get into before. Now, coming from playing WoW again from 2008 to 2012, then going back to Guild Wars, I didn't even want to play 10 minutes of it, it was so difficult to get into. This is what I mean. People are so used to their game that they don't WANT to go to other games. New players turn up, they hear about a game, they play it, and they like it. They haven't developed a preference yet, so they're equally friendly with any controls.
    "Do you know what it's like to fall on the floor, cry your guts out til you got no more? Hey man, now you're really livin'" - Mark Everett

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  18. #38
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hjalmtyr View Post
    But newcomers look at things objectively.
    Don't be so sure. :O!
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    All that line did was remind me of my thoughts when fighting Champion bosses during the first BWE, watching people run in with melee. Primarily against the giant wasp, because I never did figure out that one's tells.

    It's tell was "are you near me? Yea, you're f*ckin' dead"

  20. #40
    The Lightbringer Karizee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marverick66 View Post
    The thing is, newcomers to the genre will not show up on these forums. They are likely intrueged by the fact that the game they love or the book they love is creating a virtual online world open for everyone or they are invited by a friend...

    The only people shouting that a game will not be succesfull are regular forum critiques. MMO players have increased in overall population by far. If you read these forums sometimes you start wondering wich game would be good then? Since WoW sucks, Rift sucks, GW sucks, swotor sucks, Tera sucks,... I'm not going to name all MMO's but you get the picture. Most people who do explore rarely share it with these open forums. MMO champ population is not representative of the general MMO population.
    I think once we get our game and they get their content, things will quickly settle down. We're all bored out of our frikken guords and running about going RawR!

    6 days, 3 hours left.
    Last edited by Karizee; 2012-08-19 at 12:20 AM.
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