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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Zipzo View Post
    One could argue that a narrative to the level of SWTOR is actually intrusive or counter-productive to providing a rich MMORPG experience. Some may prefer the ultimate freedom to form their own adventure in an MMORPG, without being structured in to a personality or direction they don't want through cut scenes and other things that they have no control over.
    You must be the only person that doesn't like the SWTOR personal stories. You can have some control over the direction of your story with light and dark choices and the actual outcome is quite different.

    You do realise GW2 has personal stories too? and that they aren't anywhere near as good as the SWTOR ones?

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Jalek View Post
    You must be the only person that doesn't like the SWTOR personal stories. You can have some control over the direction of your story with light and dark choices and the actual outcome is quite different.

    You do realise GW2 has personal stories too? and that they aren't anywhere near as good as the SWTOR ones?
    I really do not think that I'm the only one...

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Stellan View Post
    Actually GW2 doesn't do much that is new at all. What aspect of GW2 is new? Certainly not dynamic events. Certainly not dungeons. Certain not PVP. What GW2 has is new scenery.
    This is kind of a broad brush to paint with... by this assessment WoW didn't bring anything new either (though I do think they were the first to use phasing and completely isolated dungeon instances). Dynamic events aren't new, but it seems like the way they're handled here is a bit different (scaling the event based on how many folks are active in it). Rift did this to a point, but there were still a lot of rifts that you'd have to simply avoid if you were solo.

    Level scaling I haven't seen prior. I also haven't seen level and armor balancing as it's done in GW2 pvp, nor how you have a second chance before death. Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of these.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    This is kind of a broad brush to paint with... by this assessment WoW didn't bring anything new either (though I do think they were the first to use phasing and completely isolated dungeon instances). Dynamic events aren't new, but it seems like the way they're handled here is a bit different (scaling the event based on how many folks are active in it). Rift did this to a point, but there were still a lot of rifts that you'd have to simply avoid if you were solo.

    Level scaling I haven't seen prior. I also haven't seen level and armor balancing as it's done in GW2 pvp, nor how you have a second chance before death. Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of these.
    I don't think anybody contests that WoW brought nothing new to the table. It's almost unanimously agreed that all World of Warcraft did was polish already established concepts...

  5. #145
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggoman View Post
    GW2 is basically the ideal MMO for the veteran MMORPG player, the gamers that have a finer taste for games. Gone is the gear treadmill and faction grinding. The scripted bread crumb questing is replaced by a open ended dynamic leveling system. PvP is also reaching for an ideal, massive in scale and weighted more for skill. The armor and weapon graphics are probably the most amazing in any genre at the moment.

    GW2 won't be part of the MMORPG war, that "war" is really only for those that took the blue pill. GW2 is the place where gamers go when they take the red pill and realize "Oh shit... I'm supposed to play games for fun". Not everyone will take the red pill, in fact it is probably a very minor population that would.
    I like that. Very good posting. Agree 100%.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggoman View Post
    GW2 is basically the ideal MMO for the veteran MMORPG player, the gamers that have a finer taste for games. Gone is the gear treadmill and faction grinding. The scripted bread crumb questing is replaced by a open ended dynamic leveling system. PvP is also reaching for an ideal, massive in scale and weighted more for skill. The armor and weapon graphics are probably the most amazing in any genre at the moment.

    GW2 won't be part of the MMORPG war, that "war" is really only for those that took the blue pill. GW2 is the place where gamers go when they take the red pill and realize "Oh shit... I'm supposed to play games for fun". Not everyone will take the red pill, in fact it is probably a very minor population that would.
    Ok I had to respond to this after I saw someone quoting it. Your post comes off to me as if you don't play GW2, you have no taste and you don't play games for fun. Like GW2 gamers are superior or something, how they will be above the "war", which in the end quite a few GW2 gamers aren't. I have seen time and time again GW2 fanboys trash WoW. If you believe that GW2 fans are above this stuff, they would ignore the posts from WoW fanboys trashing GW2 altogether. It is disappointing that you basically insulting non GW2 players while making good points for GW2. I like GW2 from what I played in the beta and guess what, I also like WoW and will play both when GW2. However I don't view gamers who don't play GW2 beneath me because that is the tone you give off in your post.
    Last edited by Theendgamelv3; 2012-08-20 at 01:13 AM.

  7. #147
    Deleted
    @Theendgamelv3: Well that's not how I understood that posting. GW2 to me is more than just some grindfest or item chase game. It looks into things so much deeper...you know like not for people that like to rush through and get everything done as quick as possible. It is a game to enjoy to the fullest, each and every moment. It has so much diversity in every aspect.

    I don't know how to put it in words really. It just seems perfect for people that want more and expect more from a game.

    But that does not make GW2 players superior. Not at all. Just a different sense maybe.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Zipzo View Post

    The MMORPG has seen much decline lately in terms of fresh appeal. Most feel it's fair to say that there isn't anything "new" that we could be surprised with in this current generation, that we've seen it all, therefore all of the major MMORPG's released in the past 5-7 years or so, dressing to impress, have fallen short on their hype because how many new experiences are there really for developers to try without potentially wasting a ton of money.
    No... No.

    That's not true! That's impossible!


    Jokes aside.

    There's a disturbingly large portion of people who believe in a second coming. A jebus MMO that will slay every game ever made.

    I think, however, that we will see many smaller mmos come into existence, many of which will focus on different aspects of online gaming. Each will develop a niche genre. I doubt we will see another 100million dollar mmo. They just don't make sense. Its better just to pick an aspect and really master it. Your niche audience will end up being pretty loyal and happy.

    I think some good examples of this are Eve and its economy and Rift and its PVE. Now, they understand that they need more than those things. So they do add pvp and crap. However, they really focus hard on those two things and because of it they have a devout following.

    If GW2 focuses really hard on making world RVR pvp their "thing" they will be very successful at it. Sure, they will have other things but they should really pick a niche and make it theirs.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-20 at 02:43 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Silza View Post
    But that does not make GW2 players superior. Not at all. Just a different sense maybe.
    I too plan on trying out and perhaps buying GW2.

    However, this type of stroking should only be done in private and preferably away from minors.
    (Warframe) - Dragon & Typhoon-
    (Neverwinter) - Trickster Rogue & Guardian Fighter -

  9. #149
    Deleted
    I have always wanted an MMO that is like GTA. I want an extremly big open world where you can do pretty much anything. Like Day Z is very close to what I have in mind and hope the MMO War Z will be like that but even better.
    Maybe some "zombie bosses" around the world you team up against to get some cool stuff but if u are dead then you have to start over like in Day Z or something.
    Last edited by mmocbc4c51efd3; 2012-08-20 at 01:45 PM.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Silza View Post
    @Theendgamelv3: Well that's not how I understood that posting. GW2 to me is more than just some grindfest or item chase game. It looks into things so much deeper...you know like not for people that like to rush through and get everything done as quick as possible. It is a game to enjoy to the fullest, each and every moment. It has so much diversity in every aspect.

    I don't know how to put it in words really. It just seems perfect for people that want more and expect more from a game.

    But that does not make GW2 players superior. Not at all. Just a different sense maybe.
    Just because it might do those things (we don't know cause we don't have the full retail product yet) doesn't mean that GW2 players have a finer taste. It comes off as if GW 2 players as superior. Not only that, he separated two player bases with the matrix reference just to solidify my opinion of his post. I am sorry, but there will be idiots, there are people on this very forum who are buying GW2 and are trashing other games. Apparently those people aren't just playing the game "for fun". It doesn't make them any better than the "blue pill" people. As much as I can't wait for this game, it isn't "The 2nd Coming" or the "Greatest MMORPG ever". If people are expecting that GW2 to have mostly awsome people, sorry to disappoint, it will have jerks and trolls. Hell a lot of people IMO who are flocking to GW2 are expecting the biggest MMORPG game changer ever, and they will be disappointed and will trash the game.

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Solitare-sp View Post
    From looking at it, it is a step forward i do think. Take PvP for example. i'm sure when the vast majority of people think of what PvP is, it should be open battleground massive warfare, getting away from the articifical games like 'capture the flag' or cap the area etc. Even more so when limited to 8 or 10 or 15 a side.

    Thats one reason why both WvW and Dynamic events in Guild Wars 2 look so good and interesting. It puts the Massively back into the game. Large social groups of people coming together.

    Thats what I think a lot of people, especially those which are MMO veterns from the early days of things like WoW are looking for. A way to put community right back in the heart of the game. Although recent additions like group finders etc make things easier for games, it destroy's the links which people form.

    Breaking the trinity should also help with this, as people won't be forced now to compromise how they play into roles.
    what you think will happen, and what probably will happen are two different things. for instance a lot of people thought the first Guild wars was going to change gaming as we knew it for ever. it didn't. people played the game, but it had zero effect on the industry. now fast forward to part 2, and people are claiming the same thing. that guild wars 2 will forever change how games are made, and played. it won't. people will play it, but it will have no effect on the gaming industry. it's all hype to get peoples attention in order to possibly sell a few more boxes (and yes every developer/publisher does it).

    guild wars 2 will be what it is. a good game, but only the foolish fanboy types buy into the "greatest game that will ever be made" hype. and the same goes for any fanboy, or developer that pushes a game up to be more than it really is.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggoman View Post
    GW2 is basically the ideal MMO for the veteran MMORPG player, the gamers that have a finer taste for games. Gone is the gear treadmill and faction grinding. The scripted bread crumb questing is replaced by a open ended dynamic leveling system. PvP is also reaching for an ideal, massive in scale and weighted more for skill. The armor and weapon graphics are probably the most amazing in any genre at the moment.

    GW2 won't be part of the MMORPG war, that "war" is really only for those that took the blue pill. GW2 is the place where gamers go when they take the red pill and realize "Oh shit... I'm supposed to play games for fun". Not everyone will take the red pill, in fact it is probably a very minor population that would.
    I found this quite inflammatory really. Your opinion does not equal fact, and I find it highly insulting when people claim that "If you don't like the game I like, or you like the games I don't, you lack a finer taste/brain/education or I'm simply better than you in every way!!". Not insulting to ME, but to them and how I view them.

    /MMO-veteran, having FUN since I started and not considering GW2 the pinnacle to be of my gaming history.

    On topic:

    I think that people want to read too much into this. I've played games for ages, I've tried ALL the mmorpgs available, I've seen hypes and I've seen the hype fall flat on games I thought would leave a mark. Thus I do not care what impact GW2 has on the "dying" (I don't agree there) world of mmorpgs...as long as it has the impact on me that makes me want to play it, I'm content, they wouldn't need this marketing of "MMORPG History" and whatnot to win me over at all. And no, I do not want GW2 to set the standard for the future. I like variation in my games, and now I have 2 different mmorpgs to enjoy + my single player games.
    Last edited by Queen of Hamsters; 2012-08-22 at 01:09 AM.

  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rorcanna View Post
    I found this quite inflammatory really. Your opinion does not equal fact, and I find it highly insulting when people claim that "If you don't like the game I like, or you like the games I don't, you lack a finer taste/brain/education or I'm simply better than you in every way!!". Not insulting to ME, but to them and how I view them.
    Considering he didn't say anything of the sort, your post is the inflammatory one. =\
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  14. #154
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by slimj091 View Post
    what you think will happen, and what probably will happen are two different things. for instance a lot of people thought the first Guild wars was going to change gaming as we knew it for ever. it didn't. people played the game, but it had zero effect on the industry. now fast forward to part 2, and people are claiming the same thing. that guild wars 2 will forever change how games are made, and played. it won't. people will play it, but it will have no effect on the gaming industry. it's all hype to get peoples attention in order to possibly sell a few more boxes (and yes every developer/publisher does it).

    guild wars 2 will be what it is. a good game, but only the foolish fanboy types buy into the "greatest game that will ever be made" hype. and the same goes for any fanboy, or developer that pushes a game up to be more than it really is.
    You're worse than fanboys because you're calling people fanboys. That guy merely said it's a step forward. Did he say it's the greatest game ever made? Nope. And comparing GW2's future impact with GW's future impact? Guild Wars rose out of NOTHING and became a successful MMO. World of Warcraft rose out of years of Warcraft lore and the reputation of their company and became a successful MMO.

    GW didn't leave an impact because it was... Unique. It was very clunky and focused around tactical builds. It wasn't really 'massively multiplayer' because the biggest your party could get was 12 people and that was only for specific areas. Your usual party size was 8 and you could solo the entire game. If you played with friends, sure, but GW never really had a big sense of community unless you were sitting in Lion's Arch for weeks getting to know people.

    GW2 is different to GW, it has modern mechanics. No more standing in one place and hitting buttons, its combat is based on movement, control, defense, healing, all in one. You don't have a specific role, it's flexible. That's why it will leave a mark on MMOs. It's something fairly new. It's overhauled both the questing system and the combat system of typical MMOs. GW didn't, it had a hub-based questing system and the combat system was very clunky and static. The only things GW changed, really, were that levelling up was the same as endgame and the gear treadmill didn't exist.

    GW2 keeps GW's changes, but adds even more. It's a new genre that hasn't really been done to the same effect. GW had been done to a similar effect by everyone before it. GW introduced a few new things, GW2 introduces a lot of new things.

    That's why you can't compare the impact on the MMO genre by GW to that of GW2. They're very very very different. WoW is closer to GW2 than GW is. It isn't the greatest game ever made, but someone who thinks it's doing cool things and stating things that WILL happen (I dont know if you've played the betas but I have) isn't a fanboy. There will be the 'massively' put back into MMO. There will be massive open battleground warfare, there will be a better sense of community since it's all about working together, and he's right - WoW's sense of community has deteriorated so much that I'm actually glad the WoW community has pretty much gone, because nowadays they're mostly a bunch of assholes.

    Sincerely, someone who played WoW + GW for many years, is looking forward to GW2 and is sick of the word 'Fanboy' being thrown in every direction without people knowing what it actually means.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    Considering he didn't say anything of the sort, your post is the inflammatory one. =\
    Rorcanna viewed that post the same way I did. Read his post, it comes way off as someone who is saying that people who play GW2 are superior. While he never directly said "people who don't play GW2 are inferior" or something to that extent, the fact he separated 2 groups of people with that Matrix reference seals the deal. If he didn't mean any of that, what is a person who doesn't play GW2? According to him, people who play GW2 have a finer taste, so people don't play it don't have a fine taste? That right there is kinda insulting. Then he brings up the MMORPG war. You would initially think he meant the game.....until he said "for those who take the blue pill" so you know already he means players. Basically he says that people who take the Red pill will be people who play GW2 and that those people realize that games are for fun. So I guess that means that if you don't red pill, you are apart of a "war" (so does this mean you are above it if you play GW2?) and you don't play games for fun. It doesn't take much of a leap to think he is saying that GW2 gamers are better than other players. Come on "finer tastes", "GW2 is the place where gamers go when they take the red pill and realize "Oh shit... I'm supposed to play games for fun". " those don't strike as him saying GW2 players are better, above, superior to other players? You don't need to be directly inflammatory to be inflammatory.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Theendgamelv3 View Post
    Rorcanna viewed that post the same way I did. Read his post, it comes way off as someone who is saying that people who play GW2 are superior. While he never directly said "people who don't play GW2 are inferior" or something to that extent, the fact he separated 2 groups of people with that Matrix reference seals the deal. If he didn't mean any of that, what is a person who doesn't play GW2? According to him, people who play GW2 have a finer taste, so people don't play it don't have a fine taste? That right there is kinda insulting. Then he brings up the MMORPG war. You would initially think he meant the game.....until he said "for those who take the blue pill" so you know already he means players. Basically he says that people who take the Red pill will be people who play GW2 and that those people realize that games are for fun. So I guess that means that if you don't red pill, you are apart of a "war" (so does this mean you are above it if you play GW2?) and you don't play games for fun. It doesn't take much of a leap to think he is saying that GW2 gamers are better than other players. Come on "finer tastes", "GW2 is the place where gamers go when they take the red pill and realize "Oh shit... I'm supposed to play games for fun". " those don't strike as him saying GW2 players are better, above, superior to other players? You don't need to be directly inflammatory to be inflammatory.
    Eggoman has managed to be dumb and condescending at the same time. He's decided what constitutes 'fun' for us all. Really? Obviously a lot of players think gear progression and faction leveling and all the other character progressions that games like WOW offer are, indeed, 'fun'. Considering that GW2 will most likely go the way of Rift and SWTOR and all those other recent under performing MMORPGs, his bravado is puzzling.

  17. #157
    Dear posters. Let's stop with the flaming before I flame you with a burning infraction. With regards ~Zil

  18. #158
    This video highlights a problem with the current MMORPG Genre for many veteran players.

    My take on ANET and GW2 role for the current MMORPG Genre


    Didn't mean to hit a nerve in my previous post.

    GLHF
    Last edited by Eggoman; 2012-08-22 at 08:20 AM.

  19. #159
    In my opinion current MMORPG games are becoming bland, at the core all of them are the same, yes they can change and improve the combat system but from EverQuest through World of Warcraft to Guild Wars 2 you are placed in a static persistent world and that is it. The options to manipulate or interact with the game world and the various objects you come across, outside of combat and quests, is neglected in all titles so far.

  20. #160
    Deleted
    The OP is quite well made and has some good points in it.
    The genre is not struggling, judging but the number of titles around.
    The more mmos around, the better.
    Every mmo around has some peculiarity in it that the specific fanbase found amusing.
    Not all titles under 5M subs are fail.
    Play what you have fun playin, even more than one title at a time (but i envy your spare time).
    Only jerks make "war" about videogames, and we're not jerks, right?
    Right?
    /hugs

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