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  1. #21
    Stood in the Fire Huckfealing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    thus the next revolution in the market is going to have to make a mechanically very different game.
    I don't necessarily agree with that. If the implementation is right, you could make a brand new game with the same foundation as wow and it be very successful. But here is the thing, The success of a game is not based Solely on its fundamentals. Its based mostly on the market. My example of this would be, look at all of the "successful" mmo's in the eastern market's, but they don't last here, and that's not because of how they are designed, but the mentality of the gamer is different there.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    WoW was unique because the MMORPG market was so incredibly small and tight-knit. Blizzard had the foresight (or luck, whatever) to make the game similar to EQ but then make it much, much more accessible than EQ ever was. That was their giant change to the market. There's not much more you can do to that MMORPG market's accessibility than what has already happened, thus the next revolution in the market is going to have to make a mechanically very different game.

    I also find it odd that the post above me argues that micro transactions give more "bang for your buck."
    A giant change to the market could be as easy as having a B2P or F2P MMO that's good enough and gets big enough to compete with World of Warcraft.

    That's really not been seen since WoW's release, I feel. Many MMOs have tried, but usually fail for some reason or another.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    I also find it odd that the post above me argues that micro transactions give more "bang for your buck."
    And I would Mirror the question and ask, how does it not? You pay money, and are reciprocated immediately. Were as, Sub's are a flat amount every pay period for the continuation of content.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Docter Feel Good View Post
    And I would Mirror the question and ask, how does it not? You pay money, and are reciprocated immediately. Were as, Sub's are a flat amount every pay period for the continuation of content.
    And yet it's not even a continuation, the game is quite on a stalemate.

  5. #25
    Stood in the Fire Huckfealing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barackopala View Post
    And yet it's not even a continuation, the game is quite on a stalemate.
    I was meaning a Sub for any game, but yet, you bring up an excellent point. Many games go for MONTHS and in some cases a YEAR without a content patch. Just seems like wasted money to me.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Willias View Post
    A giant change to the market could be as easy as having a B2P or F2P MMO that's good enough and gets big enough to compete with World of Warcraft.

    That's really not been seen since WoW's release, I feel. Many MMOs have tried, but usually fail for some reason or another.
    Um. The only major B2P mmo since WoW... was Guild Wars. Which did not fail, and in fact was so successful this sequel is being made. As for F2P games, those historically are actually more popular than P2P. Games typically do far better than they did previously once they switch to a free model.

    Rift is the only major MMORPG I can think of at the moment that has been able to hold onto it's subscribers.
    Last edited by Larynx; 2012-08-19 at 04:45 AM.

  7. #27
    WoW was unique because the MMORPG market was so incredibly small and tight-knit. Blizzard had the foresight (or luck, whatever) to make the game similar to EQ but then make it much, much more accessible than EQ ever was. That was their giant change to the market. There's not much more you can do to that MMORPG market's accessibility than what has already happened, thus the next revolution in the market is going to have to make a mechanically very different game.

    I also find it odd that the post above me argues that micro transactions give more "bang for your buck."
    noone care how or what wow was ages ago - NOW it is a boring piece of shit
    i still have to pay the annual pass for it for 1 month but dont played it last 7or 8 months - we cleared ds fast and after i realized i was standing 99% of my gametime in ogrimar w8ing für raids it was time to call it "Game Over"

    grow up and play whatever you want, have fun and find friends but dont post shit like this in gw2 forum where noone care about (except Fencers and co^^)

  8. #28
    Stood in the Fire Huckfealing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larynx View Post
    Um. The only major B2P mmo since WoW... was Guild Wars. Which did not fail, and in fact was so successful this sequel is being made. As for F2P games, those historically are actually more popular than P2P. Games typically do far better than they did previously once they switch to a free model.
    Absolutely, for example, once Swtor goes F2P I will play it. Otherwise for a sub model I would not even give it a long stare. There is something to be said for F2P .

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    I understand them perfectly fine, The pattern is obvious.
    No you don't understand at all, obviously. GW2 is not a WoW clone, the sole reason it will not fail like all the other WoW clones. Engrave this into your silly little brain, please. GW2 does revolutionize the mmo genre, just because you're too ignorant/blind to see it because others have failed doesn't make it not true. I could write a full essay on how game changing the differences are and how it revolutionizes mmorpgs but you would still just tell me I'm wrong seeing as how you are an ignorant individual. "a few changes" I lol'd, really.

    Infracted
    Last edited by Fencers; 2012-08-19 at 05:13 AM.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Docter Feel Good View Post
    Absolutely, for example, once Swtor goes F2P I will play it. Otherwise for a sub model I would not even give it a long stare. There is something to be said for F2P .
    I think SWTOR is making a huge mistake with their current F2P model. The only reason I played that game was for the story and leveling content... which is now completely free. The endgame is nothing special, yet you're required to pay for it. It doesn't make much sense to me.
    Last edited by Larynx; 2012-08-19 at 04:49 AM.

  11. #31
    Stood in the Fire Huckfealing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larynx View Post
    I think SWTOR is making a huge mistake with their current F2P model. The only reason I played that game was for the story and leveling content... which is now completely free. The endgame is nothing special, yet you're required to pay for it. It doesn't make much sense to me.
    I agree, but I was referring to the complete F2P that will be released at the end of this year.

  12. #32
    But dont forget - a f2p game what everyone play for free and noone buy anything can have 192347562475623645 mio players but still its a fail
    f2p need paying players to call it succesfull

    AND swtor is not f2p - how i saw you have to buy the game and can play only the storys - all other content you have to pay a sub for
    so swtor is nothing more than a buy2play trial (cant call it free trial^^) from 1 to 80? and after this same old sub crap

    its same model like age of conan have (except age of conan client is free) - you can lvl to max lvl for free but after this you have to pay a sub or everything you did isnt worth anything
    Last edited by Inora; 2012-08-19 at 04:54 AM.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Inora View Post
    But dont forget - a f2p game what everyone play for free and noone buy anything can have 192347562475623645 mio players but still its a fail
    f2p need paying players to call it succesfull

    AND swtor is not f2p - how i saw you have to buy the game and can play only the storys - all other content you have to pay a sub for
    so swtor is nothing more than a buy2play trial (cant call it free trial^^) from 1 to 80? and after this same old sub crap
    So the SWTOR box is not free? Is it a reduced price at least?

  14. #34
    I'll be glad when the game is out and people will by too busy playing to create threads like these.

  15. #35
    The reason that World of Warcraft is so powerful today, is that, despite it having launched when the MMO 'era' was still barely starting and MMOs were still considered a new genre of gaming, World of Warcraft, unlike all of the MMO games launching around that time, already had a big fan base thanks to all the Warcraft games, expansions and novels. That practically assured a big start for the game, with a massive influx of subscriptions, of Warcraft fans wanting to experience the next game in the saga. And by remaining faithful to the previous Warcraft games AND adding new experiences every several months, helped keep the community interested when the MMO industry was still struggling to build a solid base.

    And any new games launches with bugs. WoW was no exception to that. But since MMOs were still a new thing back then, and there were so few MMOs, people just wouldn't leave for other games. They'd either remain with WoW or stop playing, most of the time. Today, WoW has grown beyond any of the MMOs, both new and old, thanks to the fanbase it already had prior to launching, because of the Warcraft games.

    Today, if a new MMO wants to succeed, it needs to not only have a nearly perfect, almost bug-free launch, have a good, engaging story, uncomplicated UI, and a good amount of content, especially end-game, right off the bat, unfortunately. It's a tough market to enter if you plan on giving the 'bare minimum' in even just one of the above mentioned requisites.
    Last edited by Ielenia; 2012-08-19 at 05:02 AM.

  16. #36
    I think it has potential, it has definitely taken a bigger step in a new direction than anything else I've seen lately except for maybe TSW.

    That being said, I don't think Guild Wars 2 will define the way of the future, save perhaps the whole b2p model. I'm just not quite sure yet if it's different enough...I haven't been in the beta, however, I'm just going to play it when it's released and a lot of things are going to be a surprise for me....hopefully.

  17. #37
    Let me reiterate that the operative word/phrase throughout my article that I want to convey is "could/can".

    By no means do I think it's a forgone conclusion that GW2 will take a stranglehold over the MMORPG market, but I do think that the elements are there that a turning of the tables could very well happen.

    ...continue as you were!

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Larynx View Post
    So the SWTOR box is not free? Is it a reduced price at least?
    It will stay at it's current price, which just got reduced to $15.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by dreighver View Post
    Let me preface this with the following: Do not let this thread devolve into bickering and moaning over which game is better, WoW or GW2. I often referenced WoW in this thread in order to provide a basis for comparison between the games at their release.

    Was doing some thinking earlier today, specifically about the evolution of MMORPGs over the years and how and why a certain game can kick another to the curb. Why does 'x' game break ground and 'y' game doesn't?

    So I began to think and look at the evolution of games over the past decade or so. I think most of us can agree that WoW, when it was released in 2004, re-shaped the MMORPG market. Everquest was the 'big-dog' that came before it, and while WoW didn't 'kill' Everquest (I hate that term), it stole subscription numbers, and slowly became the go to MMORPG.

    But why? What did Blizzard do to make such a popular game?

    What it comes down to is player-friendly innovation and evolution. In order to attract more players, and attract players who will not leave, you must have a distinctive quality about your product. Everquest, while very fun, often became more grind'ish, particularly as you reached higher levels. Quests become somewhat obsolete, and in order to progress later in the game groups were needed. WoW on the other hand, allowed a player to play through the majority of the game solo, and ultimately they improved the user experience. They made things moew fun, but managed to make a difficult and challenging game that rewarded the player.

    Again, the idea is evolution, not the reinvention of the wheel. WoW renovated the questing system, they streamlined things more, and put more of emphasis on player progression via questing. They tweaked what existed and took a risk. The results? A relatively successful beta period, and a game that prior to release receiver a lot of hype.

    Does this sound familiar?

    Guild Wars 2 and ArenaNet aren't making a fundamentally different game. At heart it's still a MMORPG, but they're evolving the system, and tweaking what exists, with the ultimate goal of... yep, you guessed it... IMPROVING THE USER EXPERIENCE.

    That's the key right there.

    People often reference SWTOR and RIFT as examples of why, given the current stranglehold that WoW has over the market, no new game can succeed. Well of course no game that is more-or-less alike to what exists will succeed. People will eventually go back to what they know and are comfortable with. In order to steal players from another game and KEEP them, you must give them a reason to stay -- something that distinguishes yourself from the others. That's what GW2 is doing. They are, as I said before, attempting to create a game that is more enjoyable and ultimately provides a better user experience than what currently exists.

    Now I'm not saying that GW2 will kill WoW. I hate the term 'kill' when discussing video games, and I don't think that the process of crowning a new gaming king undergoes such a process. Games slowly lose players and eventually become obsolete, but they don't drop off the face of the Earth. But do I think that GW2 could turn the tables? Absolutely.

    Blizzard took a risk in 2004. They had a successful beta period and their game received much hype. At launch the game did enough to live up to expectations and word-of-mouth spread around. WoW steadily grew and gave people a reason to come back and continue playing.

    ArenaNet is taking a risk in a week. They had a successful beta period and their game has received much hype.

    IF... and I reiterate, IF...

    If ArenaNet handles the launch process well (patch bugs ASAP, fine tune servers, provide updates, etc), then I have every reason to believe that GW2 could have an impact on the MMORPG market that WoW had upon its release. As laid out above, I feel like the recipe is there.

    WoW did it in '04. Can GW2 do it in '12?

    ...we'll just have to wait and see.
    You make a 700 word post based entirely on the point that GW2 will steal a lot of WoW's customers because it improves the user experience, yet you fail to provide a single example of how GW2 actually does improve the user experience.

    Your post is as vague and useless as the Ryan economic plan. Clearly, specificity is a foreign concept to you.
    Last edited by paralleluniverse; 2012-08-19 at 05:00 AM.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    Your point is irrelevant. WoW or EQ, same underlying mechanics. Same with GW2. Just because they add a few extra features doesn't mean, "ZOMG WOW REVOLUTION IN THE GAME MARKET!"
    You wanted a soccer game ?

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