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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Osprey39 View Post
    So full of angst. Where to start? First off, I never had a thread locked in the Warhammer beta nor was I warned for going off-topic. That didn't change my opinion that they were foolish to be so heavy handed about things. Babbling on? I made one comment about Aion which was in response to your mention of it and all my comments about Warhammer have been in response to yours. That's called having a conversation. You should try doing it without ad hominem attacks if you are capable of it. Pubescent? I wish. I'm about to turn 42 and just because you don't like what I am saying doesn't make it immature. I would say that lashing out and making personal attacks is kind of immature though.

    You started this whole ball rolling by saying GW2 had welfare pvp because there is no pvp gear grind. You claim you like to beat people with better gear and that's why you don't like it not having a gear grind. I'm not sure that your motives are what you say they are but whatever. Let me explain why I think pvp gear grinds suck. I'm primarily a pvp player myself. Counting my commute to and from work, I put in 10-1/2 to 11 hours per day at my job. Then I have to come home and take care of upkeep on my house. I also have other hobbies and commitments as well that consume time. All that doesn't leave me as much time as I'd like to play games. I'm absolutely fucking ecstatic that with this game, I'll be able to come home and do some pvp for a couple hours and not have to worry about going up against some punk asses that outgear me because they do nothing but play the damn game all day long.



    I'm not sure what to make of this statement. It sounds like you haven't even played the game yet and if that's the case, I'm not sure why you're ripping on the pvp in it. I don't even think the game has dueling in it. In fact, I remember reading somewhere that they weren't even sure whether they were going to add it or not.
    So you have conversations about things you know nothing about because you didn't play them, you base these things off what people say. Who said these things Fox News? MSNBC? some gaming forum where people spew "WoW Rules and Aions a Korean Grinder."? If I based what I play off what people say I would never have had the best PvP experience in at least a decade from SWToR the last 7 months. Like you, I take care of a 380 acre ranch and have a couple hours a day to PvP but had zero troubles getting 2 full Warhero characters. Did I get my ass handed to me? Absolutely, but it sure was satisfying when I got my first piece of real gear and the day I finished my gear set, I started over to change out armor mods. It's a reward, what in life doesn't have rewards for hard work? I do get it though , its F2P so you have to keep it in the LoLegends framework. Its much harder to design gear sets and add stats and such so just give everyone the same set of gear and call it skill based.

    If no one can see how being the underdog and winning is more satisfying than beating someone equal then yes I'm done trying to explain. Those Cinderella teams that Beat Duke in March madness even though Duke gets all the recruits, fat, out of shape Buster Douglas beating Mike Tyson, US Hockey team beat, whatever David vs Goliath scenerio you want to use.

    I have played the game, only 9 hours but my dueling comments come from .......PvP isn't dueling, in dueling, same class same gear matters. In PvP it's supposed to be a team effort, if you have a Cinderella geared recruit on your team, the team adjust also adding challenge. Some people like challenges, some dont.

  2. #242
    Stood in the Fire The King in Yellow's Avatar
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    I myself played GW1 for a while but utterly disliked it...

    Took me a while to eventually check out Guild Wars 2, because honestly the other games I play were getting boring.
    So; started checking out some videos, some artwork and the occasional stuff and slowly but surely it became a bright point for me to cure boredom.

    After participating in... two Betas and a stress test (Eventually) I can not say it is a perfect game... but it sure does feel good to play, it looks nice and the character design is quite well done. (Could still be better but that's not the point)

    The environment of the world is just amazing; exploring trough snowy mountains towards tundras and the likes just feels amazing.

    In all fairness, the hype started with indeed more known blogs and vlogs... but perhaps also by how it was presented to the world.

    The second part which created the snowball effect; is the entire new system, because almost EVERY MMO out there uses the "standard" it does work, but for pure DPS or Heal classes it's quite dull and constantly the same.

    The entire new way skills work in GW2 could eventually set a new standard.
    I sometimes organise operas, like This one

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    Stranger: Indeed?
    Cassilda: Indeed, it's time. We have all laid aside disguise but you.
    Stranger: I wear no mask.
    Camilla: (Terrified, aside to Cassilda.) No mask? No mask!

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by Awe View Post
    Hmm. After reading through the thread, what about asking a reversed question for those who had some experience with GW1? Since many people here claims that GW2 is so different from GW1 that GW1 is irrelevant when it comes to GW2's hype. Do you think that there will be some fans of GW1 who will dislike GW2 becouse of how far it deviated from certain GW1 concepts? Maybe someone here who feels that it may happen to him/her? I loved GW1 and so far from everything I seen in GW2 beta weekends I am banking that I will love GW2 as well. Just wondering what other GW old timers think.
    There's actually a rather vocal minority that has lived and breathed GW1 to such a degree that GW2 is seen as ANet's betrayal of them. You can spot them occasionally on GW2Guru, and I've even seen a few bitching and moaning in GW1. What I've also noticed is that those who haven't played or only recently started playing GW1 are the ones you'll see talking about how different the two games are, while those of us who played GW1 extensively can see the resemblance clear as day.
    Last edited by Drakhar; 2012-08-20 at 01:14 PM.

  4. #244
    I know many will disagree with me, but I think it has more to do with the MMO community at the moment than it does with GW2 itself. (Not that I'm against GW2... pre-order day it was available.) People are looking for something that feels fresh... that's why we've endured the over-hype of the Rift's, SWTORs, etc. However, all those games are based largely on the standard formula... and frankly didn't pull it off well enough on launch day to keep players engaged. The people want an MMO, they want it to be awesome, but they also want it to be different... a couple months from now we'll know if GW2 was it.

  5. #245
    Immortal Maklor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drakhar View Post
    There's actually a rather vocal minority that has lived and breathed GW1 to such a degree that GW2 is seen as ANet's betrayal of them. You can spot them occasionally on GW2Guru, and I've even seen a few bitching and moaning in GW1.
    True there are but they do it for a reason, they are hardcore PvP'ers and feel let down by GW2 which is entirely understandable.

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Demiknight View Post
    I know many will disagree with me, but I think it has more to do with the MMO community at the moment than it does with GW2 itself. (Not that I'm against GW2... pre-order day it was available.) People are looking for something that feels fresh... that's why we've endured the over-hype of the Rift's, SWTORs, etc. However, all those games are based largely on the standard formula... and frankly didn't pull it off well enough on launch day to keep players engaged. The people want an MMO, they want it to be awesome, but they also want it to be different... a couple months from now we'll know if GW2 was it.
    Pretty much this. MMOs get boring after 1-6 months even with expansions. GW2 seems to have added a few twists that hopefully keep it fresh for a couple months. The gimped character movement and lack of zoom doesn't toot my whistle much, but if I treat it has "something different" than any other MMO, it might become a good thing slowing down game play.

  7. #247
    Old God Arrowstormen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miah View Post
    Pretty much this. MMOs get boring after 1-6 months even with expansions. GW2 seems to have added a few twists that hopefully keep it fresh for a couple months. The gimped character movement and lack of zoom doesn't toot my whistle much, but if I treat it has "something different" than any other MMO, it might become a good thing slowing down game play.
    Have a giant piece of "talk for yourself". A MMO that gets boring after 1-6 months is probably not a very good MMO, as MMOs are made to be played for a long time.
    Being critical is a burden which some people loves to bear.

  8. #248
    The Patient spambanjo's Avatar
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    Until the last 8-10 months or so, I hadn't considered buying/playing another immersive game since I started WoW in early TBC, but that attitude changed very suddenly after the Dragon Soul patch... and because of that I really feel that Blizzards repeated failures in Cataclysm have contributed massively to the hype surrounding GW2.

    Personally, I don't like the direction WoW is headed but that's just my opinion ofc. My feelings are not driven by some loyalty/disloyalty to either side, and without GW2 I would still be feeling just as down about the poor state I feel Warcraft is in. When Cataclysm started it was exactly what I wanted, so for it to end so badly is just baffling. I'd feel like I was knowingly and willingly preparing my anus for re-entry if I were to subscribe to the product of a company who I already feel let me down monumentally, without first trying out other options.

    It's impossible to say before release if GW2 will live up to it's promises. Personally, I'm happy to ride the tidal wave and enjoy the excitement of the first month or two even if it ends in a complete shambles. I just hope it can live up to the hype, because the WoW many of us know and love was burried along with the Lich King. I'm dreading the thought of having no game to take WoW's place, and I don't think I'm alone in feeling this way. Frankly, the only reason I have played for the last 8+ months is because there is no alternative.

    TL-DR - WoW/Blizzard is not what it used to be and many old school players are finally looking for something new after the changes announced for MoP... GW2 is looking like the the best of the competition in many people's eyes, hence all the recent hype even from players who never played the original.
    Last edited by spambanjo; 2012-08-20 at 02:42 PM.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    True there are but they do it for a reason, they are hardcore PvP'ers and feel let down by GW2 which is entirely understandable.
    Oh absolutely, they have every right to be upset about GW2's direction. Just pointing out that this group of players does in fact exist since they don't appear on this particular forum.

  10. #250
    Well there are a few of us GW vets that actually liked quite a lot of the features of that game and are disappointed that they aren't in GW2. But that doesn't stop me from enjoying a new game such as GW2.

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by Miah View Post
    So you have conversations about things you know nothing about because you didn't play them, you base these things off what people say. Who said these things Fox News? MSNBC? some gaming forum where people spew "WoW Rules and Aions a Korean Grinder."? If I based what I play off what people say I would never have had the best PvP experience in at least a decade from SWToR the last 7 months.
    Actually I listened to people I know who's opinions I have confidence in that had played it. I have neither the time, inclination nor, in this economy, the money to just buy every title that comes along hoping it doesn't suck. I usually try to get into the beta tests and see if I like it and if I can't do that, I will listen to long time friends that have the game in question. I didn't play Star Trek Online because I had a very close friend that picked it up and when he described it to me, the best description he could muster was 'it's alright'. Oh, and you keep bringing up WoW and running back to it or whatever. Just so you know, I haven't played WoW since Wrath and I will never go back. I despise that game.

    Like you, I take care of a 380 acre ranch and have a couple hours a day to PvP but had zero troubles getting 2 full Warhero characters. Did I get my ass handed to me? Absolutely, but it sure was satisfying when I got my first piece of real gear and the day I finished my gear set, I started over to change out armor mods. It's a reward, what in life doesn't have rewards for hard work? I do get it though , its F2P so you have to keep it in the LoLegends framework. Its much harder to design gear sets and add stats and such so just give everyone the same set of gear and call it skill based.
    SWToR is not really a great example of a pvp gear grind. There are only 2 tiers of PvP gear and the first one is pretty damn easy to get. The second set only confers about 8% stat advantage over the first if my memory serves me correctly. Rift is a better example. There are a whole bunch of ranks and the top ranked gear is much, much better than the first rank stuff. If you're in t1 stuff in Rift and fight someone in t6 (or whatever the top rank is now) you have almost zero chance to win. They could damn near beat you using only auto attacks.

    I don't find that fun nor do I enjoy the grinding it out to get on a somewhat equal footing for gear. I get what you're saying about being rewarded for hard work but that's where we part ways. I don't view video games as work, I view them as a leisure activity. The moment they start to feel like work to me is the moment I start looking for something else to play. I have plenty of work in my life, I don't need or want it from my video games.

    If no one can see how being the underdog and winning is more satisfying than beating someone equal then yes I'm done trying to explain. Those Cinderella teams that Beat Duke in March madness even though Duke gets all the recruits, fat, out of shape Buster Douglas beating Mike Tyson, US Hockey team beat, whatever David vs Goliath scenerio you want to use.
    While I derive a certain amount of satisfaction from that, I usually just figure they are fucking horrible at the game and if we were on equal footing gear wise I would have mopped the god damn floor with them instead of barely winning. That just serves to irritate me more about gear advantages and the crutch they provide for shitty players with lots of time on their hands.

    I have played the game, only 9 hours but my dueling comments come from .......PvP isn't dueling, in dueling, same class same gear matters. In PvP it's supposed to be a team effort, if you have a Cinderella geared recruit on your team, the team adjust also adding challenge. Some people like challenges, some dont.
    I don't duel, never have. It's a waste of my time because it isn't a real pvp situation where you may or may not have some of your abilities on cooldown, be facing multiple opponents, etc. I played on a PvP server in WoW and I used to just shake my head when I'd run past the clowns out in front of Orgimmar dueling. I always wondered why they didn't just go find some Alliance to kill.

  12. #252
    Can't really say that GW2 hasn't built hype without GW1, otherwise it wouldn't be called GW2. One of the more likely reasons for the perceived lack of GW1 hype is that the game did not feature as dominantly in the US market compared to the EU/Asian/African gaming markets where at the time paying the monthly sub was a bigger deterrent to playing online as well as the saturation/availability of affordable broadband. For me and my wife, we started playing GW1 in South Africa because it was in no way data intense as WoW across the internet and also because there was no monthly sub. We started playing when Factions was launched, and this was Anet's PVP oriented chapter, however, the world and lore was as important and immersive and imo in no way secondary to the PVP content.

    And this is what GW1 players will tell others/new players that are so concerned about whether GW2 is for them or not because of the mention of it being PVP oriented. Anet have gone to great lengths to create a wonderful and immersive world with plenty of lore and if GW1 and its 3 games and expansion are anything to go by, then new players to the GW world should not be worried about the mention of PVP. Further to this, consider that even with the majority of devs working on GW2, there is still a smaller compliment of staff working on GW1 today, providing bridging content between GW1 and GW2, keeping the skills balanced both for PVP and PVE (less so in PVE understandably) and keeping players interested with weekend bonuses. However, do not be put off from trying out some PVP as truly Anet has probably done the best job to date with MMO-PVP compared to the other MMOs out there, and actually there are many brilliant and fun PVP moments that do happen - kill an assassin enough times and they may just propose marriage to you, haha!

    For us there is also the personal touch from the GW devs that impresses a lot. We received a personally signed limited set Christmas card from them one year in the mail and considering that we were in South Africa at the time, we were really impressed that this little market was acknowledged by them.

    This is by far the one great distinction of the Anet devs and GW; they are endeavouring to put out a good product, they are mindful of their player base in GW1 still, they understand what made GW1 such a great adventure for their players and have now brought us - what appears to be - an improvement both technologically and stylistically a continuation of an established story and world.

    As much as many reviewers and game sites are saying that GW2 is new, different, a breath of fresh air in the stale MMO world, many have overlooked that GW1 was just as different at the time of its launch - level cap, skill bar options, skill setup, gear grind, competitive PVP to mention a few - and that it was played by fewer people than the other big MMO of the time is indicative of this. Perhaps the majority of the MMO gaming world at the time was either not ready for it or too immersed to look at the horizon but do remember, GW1 certainly had and still has many millions of players involved in the game. All it comes down to is what style of game play you as an individual are looking for. Understand too that whether a game is fun or not comes down to how much effort you put into making it fun and GW2 is going to have a learning curve which may be steeper for some players than others but this is how it should be, something new and different should not reflect the style of other MMOs out there.

    For GW1 players, we have been waiting a long time to see GW2 and we expect a great experience based on what we played in GW1. And the devs know this.

  13. #253
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Funny thing about "being the underdog and winning" is that, typically, in the real world... when you're the underdog and you win, you win because of skill, and you're an underdog because of your history in the particular... thing you're an underdog in. You're an underdog because you're unheard of, and because you're ranked low relative to who you're facing. Not because they're wearing better equipment than you, or because they are statistically more powerful than you.

    I mean, look at boxing. If you're an underdog in boxing, is it because his gloves are thicker? His muscles are bigger? Or is it simply because he's got a lot of wins under his belt, and you don't? Because he's the champion, and you're not?

    Real sports are regulated to make sure that both sides of a competition are using the same regulation equipment in order to not gain an unfair advantage over each other, even down at the level of the recreational local team. GW2 is tailoring GW2 pvp for the sake of being eSport material. eSport still has the word "sport" in it, which suggests that equipment needs to be regulated for the purpose of a fair playing field.
    If you're better than your opponents, it's because you're better at the game, period. Not because of an advantage of equipment.
    Last edited by DrakeWurrum; 2012-08-20 at 02:55 PM.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  14. #254
    Its just the whole community of MMO's these day's, they hype things up and then spew vitrolic hate when the game doesnt give them the uber revolutionary genre defining game, they built up in their minds.

    Having played BWE 2 and 3 i've no doubt thats exactly what will happen with GW2, i'll just be sitting back with my popcorn watching this forum explode, i hope the mods are ready for a ton of work

  15. #255
    well its like any other new MMO that comes out all the WoW hating children start to make THIS MMO is gonna be the new age of MMOs and start to spam entire internet with there shitty lies and then when the new MMO comes out ppl have beyond unreasnoble demands on the game and after a few months die out thats probly the MAIN reason why GW2 got so popular like the other MMOs did.

  16. #256
    Bloodsail Admiral Horrid Crow's Avatar
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    A better question would be; how did GW2 managed to build its hype "with" GW1?
    I was quite hyped for GW2 for a while, but I also remember playing GW1 for almost a year with two friends, and that game was honestly nothing special...
    It was actually quite boring fast. The world didn't feel alive at all and the mechanics and combat felt really stale compared to WoW (which was released a year earlier).

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by AnthonyUK View Post
    Its just the whole community of MMO's these day's, they hype things up and then spew vitrolic hate when the game doesnt give them the uber revolutionary genre defining game, they built up in their minds.

    Having played BWE 2 and 3 i've no doubt thats exactly what will happen with GW2, i'll just be sitting back with my popcorn watching this forum explode, i hope the mods are ready for a ton of work
    Sadly, you're probably at least a little bit right. Sometimes I wonder why I even play MMOs because I can't stand about 90% of the other players lol. That may be an overestimate but there are a lot of people that become downright despicable when given the veil of internet anonymity.

  18. #258
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnthonyUK View Post
    Its just the whole community of MMO's these day's, they hype things up and then spew vitrolic hate when the game doesnt give them the uber revolutionary genre defining game, they built up in their minds.

    Having played BWE 2 and 3 i've no doubt thats exactly what will happen with GW2, i'll just be sitting back with my popcorn watching this forum explode, i hope the mods are ready for a ton of work
    Highly doubt that. My experiences in the betas were vastly different from yours, apparently. I know exactly what GW2 is offering in terms of gameplay, and most people I've seen in this community often know it even better than I do.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  19. #259
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by spambanjo View Post
    Until the last 8-10 months or so, I hadn't considered buying/playing another immersive game since I started WoW in early TBC, but that attitude changed very suddenly after the Dragon Soul patch... and because of that I really feel that Blizzards repeated failures in Cataclysm have contributed massively to the hype surrounding GW2.

    Personally, I don't like the direction WoW is headed but that's just my opinion ofc. My feelings are not driven by some loyalty/disloyalty to either side, and without GW2 I would still be feeling just as down about the poor state I feel Warcraft is in. When Cataclysm started it was exactly what I wanted, so for it to end so badly is just baffling. I'd feel like I was knowingly and willingly preparing my anus for re-entry if I were to subscribe to the product of a company who I already feel let me down monumentally, without first trying out other options.

    It's impossible to say before release if GW2 will live up to it's promises. Personally, I'm happy to ride the tidal wave and enjoy the excitement of the first month or two even if it ends in a complete shambles. I just hope it can live up to the hype, because the WoW many of us know and love was burried along with the Lich King. I'm dreading the thought of having no game to take WoW's place, and I don't think I'm alone in feeling this way. Frankly, the only reason I have played for the last 8+ months is because there is no alternative.

    TL-DR - WoW/Blizzard is not what it used to be and many old school players are finally looking for something new after the changes announced for MoP... GW2 is looking like the the best of the competition in many people's eyes, hence all the recent hype even from players who never played the original.
    That would be me and a good portion of our 6 year old guild. Anet should send Blizzard a thank you note, together with their sales results We do not know if the game will live up to what we want it to be, but we will surely give it a shot.

  20. #260
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poofighta View Post
    well its like any other new MMO that comes out all the WoW hating children start to make THIS MMO is gonna be the new age of MMOs and start to spam entire internet with there shitty lies and then when the new MMO comes out ppl have beyond unreasnoble demands on the game and after a few months die out thats probly the MAIN reason why GW2 got so popular like the other MMOs did.
    Most supporters of GW2 actually seem to plan to play both WoW and GW2 together, so I'm not sure what you're basing this off of other than blind assumption. And perhaps you're also currently playing WoW and caught up in the cult around it?
    Last edited by DrakeWurrum; 2012-08-20 at 03:15 PM.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

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