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  1. #81
    Warchief Saluin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plzbegentle View Post
    U should do the same in wow :P
    They will release the 1 raid , 1-2 weeks after the release !
    (sorry , wow hater here , cant resist :P)
    I don't play wow just for raid content.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Nakaya_Kilrogg View Post
    Hell, to be honest, I'm not sure I get it, and I'd like to consider myself a pretty smart guy sometimes. I've got a pre-order already, and am set to play on the early release. Allow me to explain.

    SNIP

    People I know are praying to Sweet Baby Jesus for GW2 to save them from their "MMO ruts". It has a lot of fun things going for it, but I still don't see why it's the Messiah of online gaming. Hoping my feelings change after launch and I actually get serious about a character.
    This. I honestly still have a lot of fun with my "casual" MMO and the new expac will bring even more casual stuff. A lot of people believe the gear grind is broken, but for most of us, it's not.

    What was an RPG? Take FF7, why did you grind and spend all that time trying to get Knights of The Round? It was so you could beat Sephiroth? Nope, I beat him at lvl 42 with grendes and such, it took me an hour of fighting him and I had used up my entire inventory of items.

    I also went back to an old save, and replayed getting everything maxed out. Why did I do that? Because the power grind is what RPGs is all about. The only difference is these are Massive Multiplayer. That just means the gear grind with 1000 other people.

    I enjoy playing these games, I will also enjoy GW2 because my friends will be playing it. Lack of end-game is what killed SWTOR, (Lack of LFD and dual spec probably didn't help). I hope GW 2 doesn't go that way.

    As for the OP, It's not up to people to "Get" the game, it's up to the developer to help their players "GET" their game. I think this is a flaw in current WoW (we will see what MOP does): You can't play properly unless you do your research. That's a huge failure in my mind. The game should be discoverable, not "researched".

  3. #83
    The Patient DanBowie's Avatar
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    If the game is good people will get it.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by mofo View Post
    Don't pass on what you found fun or not fun as the absolute truth that everyone experienced. What you call grinding, I call playing. Because that's what I did. I played the game, I liked playing it, I didn't continue playing it because I didn't enjoy it and certainly not because I wanted some sort of gear reward at the end. If that was the case, I'd have played the PvP in WoW just for the shiny gear but I didn't. No-one was forced to do anything or "grind" anything that they didn't enjoy. I enjoyed the raids because I was doing them with my friends and we were having fun doing them. And 6 months down the line when a new raid came out, we had fun again exploring new areas and doing the new encounters. Gear was the means to an end, not the end itself. It's funny how people throw around this "oh you were forced to grind for gear" when apparently in their mind just playing is considered a grind.

    That's not to say I don't like the direction GW2 is taking the genre in, I absolutely like it, which is why I pre-purchased it after all. That doesn't mean that somehow all my time that I'd spent in WoW is somehow invalidated or that the only reason I was playing WoW was because it warped my mind of what fun actually is.
    Yes im sorry, i forgot that some people actually enjoyed doing the same daily quest over and over and over for litterally months on end. Every single day.
    Lets remove the gear grind, and let people get their gear very fast so they dont have to do 10 runs for just one upgrade and see how many still consistently repeat the same content. I think you'd be shocked to see how few remain.

    And then we can pick up this discussion again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    why can't you(by you, you and some WoW fans out there acting like this) accept that some people may not like gear progression and hate otherwise? You're telling it like a bad thing but in the end it's a game and matter of taste. If I say I don't like this game, can you make me feel otherwise? No. Just let it go.
    why can't you(by you, you and some WoW fans out there acting like this) accept that some people may not like gear progression and hate otherwise? You're telling it like a bad thing but in the end it's a game and matter of taste. If I say I don't like this game, can you make me feel otherwise? No. Just let it go.
    Last edited by terrahero; 2012-08-20 at 04:06 PM.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by nelly676 View Post
    i mean it isnt like MIND blowing, but its definitely not mainstream.
    Is Skyrim not mainstream? And all the other non-linear open-world games? There are a lot of them, and their customer base is large too. GW2 isn't that much different (it is - but not too much).

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by mofo View Post
    Don't pass on what you found fun or not fun as the absolute truth that everyone experienced. What you call grinding, I call playing. Because that's what I did. I played the game, I liked playing it, I didn't continue playing it because I didn't enjoy it and certainly not because I wanted some sort of gear reward at the end. If that was the case, I'd have played the PvP in WoW just for the shiny gear but I didn't. No-one was forced to do anything or "grind" anything that they didn't enjoy. I enjoyed the raids because I was doing them with my friends and we were having fun doing them. And 6 months down the line when a new raid came out, we had fun again exploring new areas and doing the new encounters. Gear was the means to an end, not the end itself. It's funny how people throw around this "oh you were forced to grind for gear" when apparently in their mind just playing is considered a grind.

    That's not to say I don't like the direction GW2 is taking the genre in, I absolutely like it, which is why I pre-purchased it after all. That doesn't mean that somehow all my time that I'd spent in WoW is somehow invalidated or that the only reason I was playing WoW was because it warped my mind of what fun actually is.
    I also enjoy raiding with my friends but only when we progress...once we kill the last boss I don't want to raid again. But I am forced to raid every week for 4-5 months just for the gear..because when the new raid comes out, I cannot play it without that gear. I want to ask you something. You do a raid 1st time and is really fun. You do it second, third, 4th, 5th time and is still fun maybe. You manage to kill the last boss, the big bad guy there. Do you still have fun to continue and do the exactly same raid for months?I don't think so..fun is ending somewhere between 4th -6th run, after comes the gear grind..and once the next patch is out, guess what , people can take this gear from 5-man dungeons and a new gear grinding has just begun...

    How can I believe that after the 5th run you still have fun doing the same raid and you are not just run for the gear? Maybe you have fun hunting gear, not bad to say it, but the whole thing "I have fun raid with my friends in 20th time in the same boss" is not something that can convince me. I don't try to play the smart guy, I too have grind for gear many times..but at least I can tell that I was running for the gear, or if I was lucky to get my gear drops fast I just couldn't leave and say now find another one to take your gear..
    The trick of selling a PvP-MMO is creating the illusion among gankers that they are respectable fighters while protecting them from respectable fights, as their less skilled half would be massacred and quit instead of “HTFU” as they claim.

  7. #87
    Warchief MrApple's Avatar
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    How would GW2 be hard to comphrehend? Its not nuclear science if you know what i mean. I dont see the problem.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-20 at 04:48 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn4 View Post
    I also enjoy raiding with my friends but only when we progress...once we kill the last boss I don't want to raid again. But I am forced to raid every week for 4-5 months just for the gear..because when the new raid comes out, I cannot play it without that gear. I want to ask you something. You do a raid 1st time and is really fun. You do it second, third, 4th, 5th time and is still fun maybe. You manage to kill the last boss, the big bad guy there. Do you still have fun to continue and do the exactly same raid for months?I don't think so..fun is ending somewhere between 4th -6th run, after comes the gear grind..and once the next patch is out, guess what , people can take this gear from 5-man dungeons and a new gear grinding has just begun...

    How can I believe that after the 5th run you still have fun doing the same raid and you are not just run for the gear? Maybe you have fun hunting gear, not bad to say it, but the whole thing "I have fun raid with my friends in 20th time in the same boss" is not something that can convince me. I don't try to play the smart guy, I too have grind for gear many times..but at least I can tell that I was running for the gear, or if I was lucky to get my gear drops fast I just couldn't leave and say now find another one to take your gear..
    So let me see if i got it right. Just because YOU dont find a raid encounter fun after the first time you killed the last boss, this is universal for everyone else and you cant understand at all why anyone else would disagree with that? oO
    Epic!

  8. #88
    To a lot of newer gamers, WoW is what an MMORPG is supposed to be. To me and others who played older MMORPGs, wow is not even in that genre really. The genre has changed and so has WoW.

    If that's what you "know" though, labels mean nothing and GW2 will not feel right.

    The difference isn't the game though, it's the company. They were SUCCESSFUL with the 7+ million sold copies of Guild Wars, they were SUCCESSFUL wit a no-sub policy, they were SUCCESSFUL with exactly what they want to do now. They'll be successful again, no doubt. They will never approach the 9.1 million subs that wow has right now, no other MMORPG in history will. It's jut not feasible and after the initial MoP rush that will push WoW back to 10,000,000 (2,000,000 less than cata), they'll drop to around 7,000,000 and will never see 9,000,000 again either.

    WoW fans see the game as a huge mountain that you must reach the peak of to be successful. In reality, arenanet can PROBABLY pay the bills with 50,000 players who use the shop 10 times a year.

    Cash shops are the future of gaming. Subs used to be necessary, haven't been since EQ though, and games will be made (or broken) in the cash shop. Pay to win isn't a successful model either. Things that make you stand out WILL be successful and what's funny is one day you'll realize you spend more every year on your current favorite game's cash shop than you ever did on subscriptions.

    It also makes fans/customers say "wow, that company really cares for me, i can play now for free and this is a fun game. I WANT to support the company.

    In the VERY near future, brand loyalty will be at an all time high even when compared to blizz customers (which currently define the market as far as brand loyalty goes).
    These people are smart. GW was really ahead of the curve and the money A Perfect World made (they did have p2w, but excluding that) really made the gaming CEOs pay attention.

    GW2 won't be for everyone, nothing is, it will be VERY successful though and i'm not sure anyone who knows anything would say different.

  9. #89
    yea i can see the people coming from other games that are nothing like it not understand it. but the true fans will get it love it and play through it many many times. Arena net did a great job with this one i believe

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by wakarimas View Post
    So let me see if i got it right. Just because YOU dont find a raid encounter fun after the first time you killed the last boss, this is universal for everyone else and you cant understand at all why anyone else would disagree with that? oO
    If they reward you with all the gear a raid has after 2 runs, will you keep doing that raid for 6 months? And if people having fun running a same raid, same bosses, same mechanics, again and again and again, why all these MMO's have millions of threads crying for content and they want content faster? And when this QQ starts? When the people "decide" that this is the time for new content..when they get their gear maybe? And why since wow became very easy and everyone can farm raids, the QQ for content is dramatic? Did we had those threads back in Vanilla or TBC? Anyone in TBC said I am bored, when the next raid will release?

    If something is fun to do it repeatedly for very long time, you don't QQ for new content. Now you try to convince me that people having fun with their deja vu for long time and "suddenly" realize they want new content..and the moment they realize they want a new raid have nothing to do that they have already got the gear from the previous raid. Oo

    They will never approach the 9.1 million subs that wow has right now, no other MMORPG in history will. It's jut not feasible and after the initial MoP rush that will push WoW back to 10,000,000 (2,000,000 less than cata), they'll drop to around 7,000,000 and will never see 9,000,000 again either.

    WoW fans see the game as a huge mountain that you must reach the peak of to be successful. In reality, arenanet can PROBABLY pay the bills with 50,000 players who use the shop 10 times a year.
    If I live in Asia and buy 10 hours of play, play 9 hours and then don't play again for months I am considered an active subscription. Also I give you an example about me..me and my guild one nigh last December said "lets go guys, lets get the annual pass" and we did it. I say ok, free Diablo 3 and if I play 1-2 months its ok. I can send you a pm with the name of my guild if you like to check it out, but me and all my guildmates haven't played since mid February BUT we are active subscribers...we probably rejoin in Mop to play 2-3 months again as we did it Cataclysm but thats it..Even as it is , still wow has way more subscriptions than other MMOs but numbers can be really tricky and not represent the reality.
    Last edited by papajohn4; 2012-08-20 at 05:07 PM.
    The trick of selling a PvP-MMO is creating the illusion among gankers that they are respectable fighters while protecting them from respectable fights, as their less skilled half would be massacred and quit instead of “HTFU” as they claim.

  11. #91
    High Overlord kuruptz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by formerblizzemployee View Post
    To a lot of newer gamers, WoW is what an MMORPG is supposed to be. To me and others who played older MMORPGs, wow is not even in that genre really. The genre has changed and so has WoW.

    If that's what you "know" though, labels mean nothing and GW2 will not feel right.

    The difference isn't the game though, it's the company. They were SUCCESSFUL with the 7+ million sold copies of Guild Wars, they were SUCCESSFUL wit a no-sub policy, they were SUCCESSFUL with exactly what they want to do now. They'll be successful again, no doubt. They will never approach the 9.1 million subs that wow has right now, no other MMORPG in history will. It's jut not feasible and after the initial MoP rush that will push WoW back to 10,000,000 (2,000,000 less than cata), they'll drop to around 7,000,000 and will never see 9,000,000 again either.

    WoW fans see the game as a huge mountain that you must reach the peak of to be successful. In reality, arenanet can PROBABLY pay the bills with 50,000 players who use the shop 10 times a year.

    Cash shops are the future of gaming. Subs used to be necessary, haven't been since EQ though, and games will be made (or broken) in the cash shop. Pay to win isn't a successful model either. Things that make you stand out WILL be successful and what's funny is one day you'll realize you spend more every year on your current favorite game's cash shop than you ever did on subscriptions.

    It also makes fans/customers say "wow, that company really cares for me, i can play now for free and this is a fun game. I WANT to support the company.

    In the VERY near future, brand loyalty will be at an all time high even when compared to blizz customers (which currently define the market as far as brand loyalty goes).
    These people are smart. GW was really ahead of the curve and the money A Perfect World made (they did have p2w, but excluding that) really made the gaming CEOs pay attention.

    GW2 won't be for everyone, nothing is, it will be VERY successful though and i'm not sure anyone who knows anything would say different.

    Yeah...


  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by wakarimas View Post
    So let me see if i got it right. Just because YOU dont find a raid encounter fun after the first time you killed the last boss, this is universal for everyone else and you cant understand at all why anyone else would disagree with that? oO
    I know I personally don't. Once I've defeated the encounter I don't particularly enjoy having to do it over and over again. Especially once I've cleared the whole instance. I haven't met too many people who feel otherwise, either. We farmed those raids every week because there was literally nothing else in the game that held our interest. 6-8 months of the same content was brutal, and it happens every single patch cycle in WoW.

    Maybe some people enjoy farming content that ceased to be a challenge months prior, but I would guess they're actually in the minority.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by MMOTotal View Post
    End game is not done yet. They said the want to get the launch sorted with then work on the end game. So, don't rush to max level everyone !

    Source: http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/...nticators-gvg/
    Apparently that about end game was just bs. Who would have thought..

    Anyways, i think people who will play GW2 like they play WoW will not get it. Yes you can rush through content, but dont complain about nothing to do if you hit 80. You know, there will be lots of elite dynamic events like the Shatterer and more. We have seen very few bosses compared what the game actually has to offer.

  14. #94
    Papajohn has hit the nail on the head. Doing the same thing over and over and over and over again just isn't fun. This isn't just with gaming, this is with life period. Who likes doing the same thing the same way over and over again for the same result? Maybe a select few, but not a lot. Repetition is what ruins games for me. Even with the likes of CoD MW3 and BF3. I can only play the same maps but a few times before the kill-die-spawn-die-spawn-die-kill-die thing gets just too monotonous. WoW is, by far, the most tedious and boring game I've ever played up to this point. Don't get me wrong, I had tons of fun with it with new experiences when available. I played for countless hours during Vanilla WoW as everything was fresh and new to me. But there is absolutely NOTHING keeping my interest. The only thing that brought me back was to see the new questing mechanics and overhauled 1-60 zones. Then you hit outlands and northrend. Back to boredom. I could ramble on this but i'm sure you get the point.

    Guild Wars 2 brings a refreshing perspective on a LOT of different levels. What will really determine this game's overall success is what things you will be able to do to keep you interested once you've hit level cap. That is the determining factor hands down. Leveling and exploring is always fun. But what happens at 80? That's the real question.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Assass1n View Post
    Leveling and exploring is always fun. But what happens at 80? That's the real question.
    For me it happens that I start leveling an alt Classes are so different and their combat style/abilities is a whole content by itself! Once I hit level 80 with 6 classes (engineer and Necromancer does not interest me atm) then I will see what I can do..
    The trick of selling a PvP-MMO is creating the illusion among gankers that they are respectable fighters while protecting them from respectable fights, as their less skilled half would be massacred and quit instead of “HTFU” as they claim.

  16. #96
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenBeard View Post
    As a matter of fact, one of the things I don't agree with ANet on is the addition of levels. The way they added them (and especially that number : 80) gives the very wrong impression that leveling matters in the game. Leveling happens in the game as a result of you doing whatever you want to do, and that's the concept I feel most people have a hard time grasping. Leveling is not a goal in itself, and as such reaching level 80 has no consequences on available activities, there is no "Before level 80" and "After level 80". I think they should have gone with a different mechanic for gaining skill points (which is the only thing "levels" are used for really). I always wonder what ANet could have done if there were no pre-established mechanics in the MMO genre, a lot of their decisions were only made to avoid turning off people that were afraid of change.
    This I would have to agree with the above. In GW1 about one third to one half of the game (depending on which expansion) was leveling 1-20, then the rest was going through the story at max level. In GW2 they seemed to have artificially inflated the number of levels to fit in to their story, because once you hit max level there really is not reason to continue exploring, doing DE's etc, you would just continue your story path to the end. The end game of GW2 seems to be a dungeon crawl grind to buy the elite armor sets, or to pvp. Nothing wrong with that, as that was pretty much the end game in GW1 other than the faction grinds (which I've already seen hinted at in GW2 while playing the BWE's). This will not be to everyone's satisfaction, and people with bitch and moan. The QQer's will QQ then move on to the next "Big Thing". That's pretty much how MMO's go today, so if you like GW2, turn off general chat and stay away from any forums and you will be content for a good long time.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenBeard View Post
    Midfield is a valid strategy if you know what you're doing, just saying
    Valid strategy for losing, HK's don't win, caps do..

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Pickynerd View Post
    Valid strategy for losing, HK's don't win, caps do..
    Can't cap if you can't get through midfield.

  19. #99
    The Lightbringer Karizee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by formerblizzemployee View Post
    They will never approach the 9.1 million subs that wow has right now, no other MMORPG in history will. It's jut not feasible and after the initial MoP rush that will push WoW back to 10,000,000 (2,000,000 less than cata), they'll drop to around 7,000,000 and will never see 9,000,000 again either.
    Not bashing or anything, but I think your numbers are highly optimistic. Saying that WoW has 9.1 mill subs right now would assume that no sub loss has occurred since June 30th, that everyone that was going to unsub had done it by then. Judging from the state of dead servers, this is simply not true.

    Second, thinking that the initial MoP rush will push the sub number back to over 10 mill is also very optimistic. MoP will Not be launching in China, they still are waiting for approval and have not declared a launch date there (to my knowledge). Not sure if they can get this done before the end of the year.

    MoP is their most controversial expac to date. When it was announced forums everywhere exploded. The MoP trailer had a 50/50 like/dislike ratio which has never been seen on a WoW product. Many people have simply played thru Cata til they felt they were "done" and are letting their subs expire. The majority of people that will be playing MoP are currently subbed.

    They'll get a few back, probably quite a few - but not nearly as many as you seem to think.
    Who knows more of gods than I? Horse gods and fire gods, gods made of gold with gemstone eyes, gods carved of cedar wood, gods chiseled into mountains, gods of empty air... I know them all.
    ~Euron "Crow's Eye" Greyjoy

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Pickynerd View Post
    Valid strategy for losing, HK's don't win, caps do..
    Who said anything about HKs ? You can easily turn Midfield into a chokepoint. As a matter of fact, the easiest way to get WSG perfection is by controlling Midfield. But again, it supposes that you know what you're doing. You're not going to win anything if everyone goes to midfield and starts mindlessly farming HKs, but we're talking about an actual strategy so randoms don't count.

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