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  1. #21
    Hymn of Hope, Tranquility,Life Grip and Void Shift are all still very usefull in a raid situation

  2. #22
    The Patient Shraug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rorschachs View Post
    Btw staying on a character for the achieve's will also not be necessary at mop. A lot of achis are going to be account wide.
    I realize that, but all my titles won't switch over, and just centimental stuff like that.
    Back to spriests anyways, their level 90 abilities are also making me want to play one. Halo, cascade, and divine star. I'll probably end up just taking halo because of the cool spell effect and it's awesomeness. AND SYMBIOSIS GIVES SPRIESTS TRANQUILITY. O.O WAT. THAT'S EFFING AWESOME.

  3. #23
    Sillybilly blizzard! Why didn't they make 23 patchwerk fights in one tier, I bet that'd make us look bad!
    They tried in DS, and if you don't have a staff Shadow's just so-so in t13 for most fights. Still probably one of the best casters though, once you remove the staff from consideration.

    Why do people focus so much on being the top dps class? Every patch/expansion there can only be 1 class which outperforms everything else.
    A logical fallacy. There's nothing preventing 3, or 5 or 2 classes from being OP. It is also no fun to work your butt off just to do barely enough DPS not to get kicked from the raid. Class balance makes a difference.

    You play a hybrid class, there is so much more that you can offer in terms of raid-utility than just raw damage output. Id be happy to let that mage do 10k more dps than me, while in the end we killed that boss because of my life-grip or Hymn of Hope that provided just that little help to the raid to make it succesful.
    Vanilla called, it wants its player back.

    Everyone has utility. And before we open up the "but MY class doesn't have utility!" can of worms, yes, it does. Everyone has utility, and Blizz has bent over backwards to make sure that there's no more unique utility abilities (that have a significant effect on raid comp, anyway). Since everyone brings something good, once the raid has all utility abilities covered you either have competitive DPS or you get sat.

    Also, Life Grip is terrible for anything else but trolling. 99% of the time it causes more problems than it solves.
    Last edited by Felade; 2012-08-20 at 11:33 AM.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felade View Post
    Also, Life Grip is terrible for anything else but trolling. 99% of the time it causes more problems than it solves.
    I very much disagree, and this is too easy a statement to make. Maybe you play with raiders who always position perfectly, or have groups with a perfect class mix, but this shows you dont fully grap the potential of Life Grip. It is one of those spells that is not a required spell, but provides options and has the potential to save lives. Some examples: Warmaster & Spine gripping, or Madness clearing Tetatuns debuff (I wont mention PvP utility...).

    And yes every class has utility, but not every class has the SAME utility. While it is a fact that classes are more and more converging in what buffs or raid cooldowns they have access to (heroism, combat ressurection), you still are playing a hybrid class which can assist a group on multiple levels (damage, heal and correct mistakes).

    Raid groups dont require shadow priests i agree, but I do not agree with people who keep a blind eye to the full potential of the class, over just doing big damage numbers. You want to complain when you are not top of the dps sim logs? Roll a pure damage class.
    Last edited by mmocd05b5811b9; 2012-08-20 at 11:57 AM.

  5. #25
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    Numbers will change. A lot.
    New expansion, new talent system, new class, new gear, new encounters, new items, new legendaries and tons of balance patches.

    Playing the min/max game is fun, but no one can predict what DPS specc (or speccs) will dominate the first, second or third raid tier of Pandaria… so don't base your class choices on potential DPS – at least for now.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Felade View Post
    Also, Life Grip is terrible for anything else but trolling. 99% of the time it causes more problems than it solves.
    Play with better (shadow) priests then. Life Grip is extremely useful to save tanks, keeping someone alive for a few extra seconds while they DC'd so they log back in alive, etc. It's situational, sure, but in the hands of a good player it is a useful tool nonetheless. It's actually the ONLY ability i'm kind of scared losing out on when i'll be rerolling for MOP....

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Felade View Post
    Also, Life Grip is terrible for anything else but trolling. 99% of the time it causes more problems than it solves.
    This is probably true in raids where trolling is common, but hardcore raids will try to use any spell to their advantage, even life grip.

    Heroic Ascendant Council comes to mind. Summit was US 79th at the time and we made it much easier by having 2 groups, 1 ranged and 1 melee, and the Priests stood at the side. Anyone who got Gravity Core was immediately gripped to the side before they could pas the debuff to their group. The Priests would also get Gravity Core, but we didn't care about meters on that fight anyway. It also helped to pull ppl away from the damn Frost Beacons. Basically, if you didn't use life grip on Heroic Council, then you weren't doing it the easy way.
    Last edited by Rayr1fe; 2012-08-20 at 03:50 PM.

  8. #28
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    I have a level 85 of every caster spec and after testing them all on PTR, I would have to say that in terms of how much each spec has changed the order is as follows (in increasing order):

    1) Elemental has changed the least
    2) Balance
    3) Frost
    4) Fire
    5) Affliction
    6) Destruction
    7) Arcane
    8) Shadow
    9) Demonology has changed the most

    Now in terms of FUN factor the order is as follows (in decreasing order):

    1) Fire is the most fun
    2) Frost
    3) Demonology
    4) Affliction
    5) Balance
    6) Elemental
    7) Shadow
    8) Destruction
    9) Arcane is the least fun.

    Keep in mind this is completely subjective and is based not only on how many new abilities or perks the spec has received but on how much the overall gameplay has changed going from Cataclysm to MoP. I would say that if you love the shadow priest gameplay as of NOW (4.3) then your best bet would be the affliction warlock, because Blizzard has decided it was a good idea to completely mimic the shadow priest rotation of Cataclysm and give it to affliction warlocks instead. Shadow in turn got a few whackamole-elements from the fire mage proc-style based gameplay.

    Affliction Warlock rotation in MoP VS Shadow Priest rotation in Cataclysm

    Keep Corruption, Agony and Unstable Affliction on the target. / Keep Shadow Word:Pain, Devouring Plague and Vampiric Touch on the target.
    Use Haunt when available (~every 8 seconds, as with Mind Blast) / Use Mind Blast when available.
    Malefic Grasp as filler. / Mind Flay as filler.
    Drain Soul <20%. / Shadow Word: Death <25%.
    Last edited by mmoc4282a3f415; 2012-08-20 at 02:42 PM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Resperina View Post
    AND SYMBIOSIS GIVES SPRIESTS TRANQUILITY. O.O WAT. THAT'S EFFING AWESOME.
    Not sure if you noticed or not, but tranq is a channeled spell now. Like Divine Hymn. It's not nearly as awesome as it used to be.

  10. #30
    I very much disagree, and this is too easy a statement to make. Maybe you play with raiders who always position perfectly, or have groups with a perfect class mix, but this shows you dont fully grap the potential of Life Grip. It is one of those spells that is not a required spell, but provides options and has the potential to save lives. Some examples: Warmaster & Spine gripping, or Madness clearing Tetatuns debuff (I wont mention PvP utility...).
    8/8 HM raider here (I believe it was at 15% nerf).

    Generally, yes, we don't have much trouble with positioning. Most of our wipes are about figuring out where it is best to stand, or how we are going to move, but once we have a strategy, we don't have too much of a problem with people not following directions and needing grips to save them.

    If a grip is planned, it works. We used it on Hagara for tank saves, but taunts from non-tanks worked just as well, have much shorter CDs and don't wreck ice lance positioning. Unplanned Grips are asking for trouble though. What usually happens is some sort of void zone spawns on the Priest just as the Grip goes off, the Priest moves, and the Grip target becomes a victim. Also, pretty much every situation you can use it for can be handled by better positioning. We used it for spine for awhile on some of our attempts (gripping the tank in for rolls, or away from bloods) but we found that AOEing a few bloods and/or just having better positioning/timing for rolls was easier.

    And yes every class has utility, but not every class has the SAME utility. While it is a fact that classes are more and more converging in what buffs or raid cooldowns they have access to (heroism, combat ressurection), you still are playing a hybrid class which can assist a group on multiple levels (damage, heal and correct mistakes).
    If a hybrid actually has to pop out and heal, they aren't DPSing. Most HM encounters are pretty picky about DPS requirements. There's only been one fight the entire expansion where we've actually used my DH as Shadow (HM Spine, which is about burst, not sustained DPS). We've tried having hybrids heal, but find generally its better if those players assigned to DPS do their DPS. The faster you kill stuff the less healing you need to do, so if you used those GCDs for DPSing you are in a way healing (think Zon'ozz HM black phases - you could help heal, but you're better off killing eyestalks quickly to reduce healing needed).

    I'm not saying we don't have utility. I think our utility is fine, and we're getting some nice new utility. I'm just saying DPS is primarily what you bring to a raid, and the days of being brought for utility even if your damage is poor are long gone.
    Last edited by Felade; 2012-08-20 at 04:42 PM.

  11. #31
    The Patient Shraug's Avatar
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    Still not convinced. I'm seeing Spriests go up 1 by 1 on the charts on sim craft, but everyone is talking down about "how bad they are".

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Resperina View Post
    Still not convinced. I'm seeing Spriests go up 1 by 1 on the charts on sim craft, but everyone is talking down about "how bad they are".
    People always talk bad about pretty much everything. Basically it boils down to do you enjoy playing the spriest and will the people you play with want to play with you on your spriest or just want the fotm. We aren't perfect in MoP but we certainly are not anywhere near being worthless.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Direshadow View Post
    Shadow Priests for the longest time have basicly been "really bad warlocks"
    Really? Because for the past 2 expansions I have yet to see a Warlock out DPS me in a raid...and in Wrath I didn't see ANYONE out DPS me.

    I understand your point of comparing the playstyle to Warlocks but I wouldn't say they are "really bad Warlocks"...If anything I would say Warlocks have been "really bad SPriests".

    Obviously this is changing now...and def wasn't the case in BC where SPriests would get Replenishment up and then go stand in the corner until something needed to be shackled. =P

  14. #34
    Really? Because for the past 2 expansions I have yet to see a Warlock out DPS me in a raid...and in Wrath I didn't see ANYONE out DPS me.
    You play with Warlocks who aren't equal to your skill level.

    Class balance starts to matter quite a bit more once you're in a group where skill is roughly equal among all players, and is at a reasonably high level. In ICC, I could beat pretty much our entire 25 man DPS team except for our Warlock and Hunter without much effort - playing a slightly OP version of Shadow at the time helped but a lot of that was because I was at the high end of the skill curve in that version of our guild. Nowadays, our relative skill level has improved quite a bit and I'd say our DPSers are all pretty much at the same skill level, which brings class balance into focus a bit more.
    Last edited by Felade; 2012-08-20 at 09:25 PM.

  15. #35
    Shadow priests are by no means bad, but Shamans (blood, and Stormlash) are still better from a min-maxing point of view.

  16. #36
    The Patient Shraug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venaliter View Post
    Shadow priests are by no means bad, but Shamans (blood, and Stormlash) are still better from a min-maxing point of view.
    The only thing it would be bringing to the table is stormlash, which still is iffy. I mean it's a great addition, but is it worth bringing in a shaman, or a better dps without stormlash? Because a mage would already have the Heroism covered.

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