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  1. #21
    I guess the best idea would be not blitz through to level 80 in some massive race to level cap. take your time with it. There will be things to do at level cap but GW2 is more aimed towards the leveling/questing experience as a whole.

  2. #22
    the great thing about pvp is that u wont have to wait for the endgame to reach the peak of enjoyment.

    PVE? Beating the hardest dungeon on the hardest mode is my goal. I dont want any gear, just completion.

  3. #23
    Mechagnome Hjalmtyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenBeard View Post
    Do you mean a bimodal population ? Or a bimodal distribution of perceived interest on available activities ? I hear you using this term a lot, but the meaning is always vague. I have never seen it used in the context of games, unless the subject was population distribution, but then you have to be more specific : bimodal against which criteria exactly ?
    Bimodal referring to the two stages of modern MMOs:
    1) Levelling up (often rushed)
    2) Endgame

    Guild Wars 2 doesn't really have a distinct line between the two, whereas other MMOs generally do.

    Also, can we get a stickied Endgame information thread? These threads are turning up a lot and we're repeating ourselves much.
    Last edited by Hjalmtyr; 2012-08-21 at 03:18 PM.
    "Do you know what it's like to fall on the floor, cry your guts out til you got no more? Hey man, now you're really livin'" - Mark Everett

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  4. #24
    Stickies are where threads go to die

    No one actually reads them, the only thing they do is give us a linking tool to publicly shame after they've already blatantly ignored what's there.
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  5. #25
    Mechagnome Hjalmtyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    Stickies are where threads go to die

    No one actually reads them, the only thing they do is give us a linking tool to publicly shame after they've already blatantly ignored what's there.
    But then we can slap a link on new threads and lock them

    Especially these threads, inevitably, after 5 or 6 pages, become GW2 vs WoW which we've had a discussion of like... 4 million times (possible hyperbole)
    Last edited by Hjalmtyr; 2012-08-21 at 03:22 PM.
    "Do you know what it's like to fall on the floor, cry your guts out til you got no more? Hey man, now you're really livin'" - Mark Everett

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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Hjalmtyr View Post
    Bimodal referring to the two stages of modern MMOs:
    1) Levelling up (often rushed)
    2) Endgame

    Guild Wars 2 doesn't really have a distinct line between the two, whereas other MMOs generally do.

    Also, can we get a stickied Endgame information thread? These threads are turning up a lot and we're repeating ourselves much.
    New mmo's are often about the leveling process. Even Wow was all about the leveling at first.
    I don't really see why GW 2 is any different in the lvl up your character department, than any other mmo.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    Stickies are where threads go to die

    No one actually reads them, the only thing they do is give us a linking tool to publicly shame after they've already blatantly ignored what's there.
    I think a lot of people see stickies as overhead, usually rules and stuff that can be "ignored". The different color sets them apart, people seem to think they don't actually contain useful information. And people don't read the rules, so they don't search, so new threads asking the same old questions constantly get created.

    We need a way to "force" people to read stickies, maybe having it ask a random question that's answered in any of the stickies before you can post the first N times in the subforum

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  8. #28
    High Overlord MagicMedicine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highangel View Post
    New mmo's are often about the leveling process. Even Wow was all about the leveling at first.
    I don't really see why GW 2 is any different in the lvl up your character department, than any other mmo.
    Because WoW (as an example) is split into two things. Dull, tired questing that ceased to be fun a few years ago and isn't enjoyed by the majority of players and is often skipped over as fast as possible in order to reach the endgame, and then, the endgame itself. In GW2 this isn't the case. If you're not enjoying the stuff you're doing as you're levelling up, you're not going to enjoy the endgame either as the two are fairly synonymous; you'll be doing the same sort of things (albeit supplemented by some cool extras at higher levels of content). Kind of beats the WoW model where the game only begins following a tedious grind and then is quickly diluted to a few hours a week worth of content worth actually doing.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenBeard View Post
    Do you mean a bimodal population ? Or a bimodal distribution of perceived interest on available activities ? I hear you using this term a lot, but the meaning is always vague. I have never seen it used in the context of games, unless the subject was population distribution, but then you have to be more specific : bimodal against which criteria exactly ?
    I figure it's obvious/well known to game design observers. Bimodal refers to two modes or phases of play. A common design decision of modern MMOs where there is a leveling phase and post leveling phase of advancement. Often involving a different set of criteria and game modes.

    In the industry this is usually referred to as a Bimodal Endgame. Such as the quests-> dungeons -> raid cycle of WoW or TOR, for example. None of the Guild Wars games offer that.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by MagicMedicine View Post
    Because WoW (as an example) is split into two things. Dull, tired questing that ceased to be fun a few years ago and isn't enjoyed by the majority of players and is often skipped over as fast as possible in order to reach the endgame, and then, the endgame itself. In GW2 this isn't the case. If you're not enjoying the stuff you're doing as you're levelling up, you're not going to enjoy the endgame either as the two are fairly synonymous; you'll be doing the same sort of things (albeit supplemented by some cool extras at higher levels of content). Kind of beats the WoW model where the game only begins following a tedious grind and then is quickly diluted to a few hours a week worth of content worth actually doing.
    My point was that a lot of people actually liked the leveling when Wow first came out, not 7 years after. The only thing you could not do as a lowbie was raiding. There was still bg's and instances, and ofc all the other stuff like questing, crafting, exploring, pvp and so on... i played it because I had fun, not because i wanted to be lvl 60.

    I'm not saying wow is awesome today, but it has changed over the years. I'm pretty sure i won't play GW2 in 5 years like i don't play Wow anymore.

    But i'm gonna have fun on my way to 80 and some time after that in Gw2, can't wait !

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    I figure it's obvious/well known to game design observers. Bimodal refers to two modes or phases of play. A common design decision of modern MMOs where there is a leveling phase and post leveling phase of advancement. Often involving a different set of criteria and game modes.

    In the industry this is usually referred to as a Bimodal Endgame. Such as the quests-> dungeons -> raid cycle of WoW or TOR, for example. None of the Guild Wars games offer that.
    Hmm, never heard of that term used in this sens before. Maybe it's an MMO thing. Any articles on that ? I'd like to further read about it.

  12. #32
    Mechagnome Hjalmtyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenBeard View Post
    Hmm, never heard of that term used in this sens before. Maybe it's an MMO thing. Any articles on that ? I'd like to further read about it.
    Not really much else to learn about, I'm afraid. That's pretty much the black and white of it. Bimodal just refers to a distinct line between multiple stages of an MMO. Like fencers said, Quests -> Dungeons -> Raid Cycle. There's a distinct line between these in WoW, for example (everyone knows WoW, ima use WoW). Quests are something you rush through, then you rush through dungeons to get into raids, then you do raids for the rest of the expansion. This is a bimodal endgame.

    Guild Wars 2 doesn't have this system, the line is much more blurred. Levelling up is not to be rushed, it's fun, dungeons can be part of your personal story or something you do while levelling up for fun, you don't NEED to do them to get gear, raids... Well, they don't really exist in the traditional form, but they'll also be elite events, most likely.
    "Do you know what it's like to fall on the floor, cry your guts out til you got no more? Hey man, now you're really livin'" - Mark Everett

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  13. #33
    When I pick up Assassin's Creed 2, I don't think "Aww man, I can't wait to be out of Florence I hate this type of gameplay, why do I have to wait for it to get good".

    The gameplay, from start to finish, might open up new options and things that weren't available as a newbie (help keeping it fresh) but the game itself doesn't change when I get close to "the end".
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  14. #34
    Mechagnome Hjalmtyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    When I pick up Assassin's Creed 2, I don't think "Aww man, I can't wait to be out of Florence I hate this type of gameplay, why do I have to wait for it to get good".
    I do, because Ubisoft bugged my version of Assassin's Creed 2 with their stupid DRM launcher so that every time I loaded from my save, I was in Florence at sequence 4
    "Do you know what it's like to fall on the floor, cry your guts out til you got no more? Hey man, now you're really livin'" - Mark Everett

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  15. #35
    Mechagnome vilhelm1992's Avatar
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    there is EVERYTHING to do at max level all the content of the game is available to you, its never obsolete, go to low lvl areas you havent completed yet, still get meaningful rewards, go to dungeons that are lower lvl, still meaningful rewards, go to orr, still get meaningful rewards, do WvW, still get meaningful rewards, go to sPVP and get your PvP rank up, play keg ball, go for an armour set your really like the look of and get that perfect style for your character, go for the legendary weapons, go for achievements complete all the objectives all over the world, if you manage to finish everything before an expansion/more content is added (which i dont think is very likely) then roll an alt, play through a different personal story, have a different exprience every time you make an alt

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Shlamorel View Post
    Aesthetically pleasing armor for some achievement would be cool, but honestly since its f2p I just want to login and be competitive at pvp- that's literally all I'll need to be a satisfied customer
    Just want to clear this up: it's not f2p. F2P = Free to play, which means you don't have to pay for it at all. GW2 has a purchase price. I think what you mean is there's no subscription fee. I'm not trying to be rude or anything, just as a game developer my self, if we get these term confusions straightened out, there's less disappointment when other people see "OH F2P" and then go and see it's $60.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Hjalmtyr View Post
    Not really much else to learn about, I'm afraid. That's pretty much the black and white of it. Bimodal just refers to a distinct line between multiple stages of an MMO.
    That's a shame. I'm just baffled that I have never heard of this term before. Searching in Google turns up a lot of Fencers posts and some other guy in another forum. I'm just saying, maybe what you mean by this is that the population is bimodal against leveling and endgame, meaning that you'll have a distinct chunk of people leveling and another chunk that is simply at endgame. The same could be said about PvE/PvP or any other aspects of the game that are exclusive in nature.

  18. #38
    Mechagnome vilhelm1992's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GarrettMickley View Post
    Just want to clear this up: it's not f2p. F2P = Free to play, which means you don't have to pay for it at all. GW2 has a purchase price. I think what you mean is there's no subscription fee. I'm not trying to be rude or anything, just as a game developer my self, if we get these term confusions straightened out, there's less disappointment when other people see "OH F2P" and then go and see it's $60.
    i agree, people still insist its no difference, but that means all single player games are F2P? no you have to pay for the game, just not a sub

  19. #39
    Pandaren Monk papajohn4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aluano View Post
    OP: I suggest you watch this video for some info about the endgame -

    Thanks for the Video Aluano! I am really torn apart between roll another alt or work for the legendary weapon


    Quote Originally Posted by vilhelm1992 View Post
    i agree, people still insist its no difference, but that means all single player games are F2P? no you have to pay for the game, just not a sub
    Well take for example Lotro. You can start playing for free but honestly is is missing lot of things you need to buy and first of all quest packs...Although if you put down a lot of all things you need to buy in order to unlock everything, all quest packs, up to 7 class slots(this is what subscribers get), Auction house, gold limits, premium wallet, e.t.c. then you need around 120-130 euro. Some will argue that you need all these, or that you can level with less quest packs, but I am talking about to unlock ALL the game. So in a F2P game like lotro you buy your Lifetime full game with 120-130 euro. over the years that I was playing lotro and had a regular subscription, I bought everything I need (some was bonus on expansions) and now I can play the full game forever..but it wasn't free at all..

    In GW2 you give 54 euro for the start and you get ALL the game. At least this is how I see it.
    Last edited by papajohn4; 2012-08-21 at 04:59 PM.
    The trick of selling a PvP-MMO is creating the illusion among gankers that they are respectable fighters while protecting them from respectable fights, as their less skilled half would be massacred and quit instead of “HTFU” as they claim.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by madrox View Post
    i always took fencers use of the word "bimodal" to means two main modes of play; ie levelling and traditional endgame content.
    Pretty much it describes two different styles of play, one for leveling, one for endgame dungeon raiding

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