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  1. #1
    Keyboard Turner mzpaugustus's Avatar
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    Lightbulb The influence of PvP power onto the Human Racial ?

    So, I just wanted to hear your views on this matter. We all know how the players who rolled Humans had the possibility of using a PvE dps trinket for PvP, now as we have PvP power along with resilience on PvP items, is that going to be a huge change once again ? Do you expect the players that faction changed to Alliance(Humans) to faction change back to Horde ? Do you expect the top arena teams having less humans and more players of other races ?

  2. #2
    I don't see your point . Humans will be as powerful as they are now . They'll have PvP on use and PvP on proc trinkets now

  3. #3
    If Touch of the Grave isn't terrible I could see Undead being a good contender with Will of the Forsaken staying the same.

  4. #4
    i think the power of the human racial right now IS the ds trinkets. humans were not quite as common during s9 and s10 as they are now. while i think human is still going to be a very popular choice in mop as the racial is very good for pvp, just like belves and forsaken are still very popular due to the utility of their racials, with out access to the same pve trinkets its not going to be quite as powerful.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  5. #5
    They arent making dmg on proc trinkets anymore in PvE. They learned from S11. However that haste proc trinket looks stronk for casters.

  6. #6
    PvE trinkets will always end up being insanely good for PvP aswell. The reason is that Blizzard wants you to do PvE, end of. History will repeat itself, as usual.

  7. #7
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    Atleast this means I won't get a PVp death knoght trying to tank to get instant que's

  8. #8
    Banned Ryan Cailan Ebonheart's Avatar
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    All Blizzard needed to do was make it so that pve gear isn't allowed in Arena or Rated BG's. I think the real reason Blizzard added PvP power was to make pvp gear less valuable in pve. Instead of gemming strength, you'll be gemming pvp power.

    I think somewhere down the line PvP power is going to have diminishing returns. That's when PvE trinkets will come back.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    All Blizzard needed to do was make it so that pve gear isn't allowed in Arena or Rated BG's. I think the real reason Blizzard added PvP power was to make pvp gear less valuable in pve. Instead of gemming strength, you'll be gemming pvp power.

    I think somewhere down the line PvP power is going to have diminishing returns. That's when PvE trinkets will come back.
    Do you even know what "diminishing returns" means?

  10. #10
    The stats on the CC breaking trinket are
    1021 Mastery/spirit/(maybe crit? It's been datamined but doesn't show on beta)
    322 Resil
    322 Power
    Use: Remove all blah blah blah.

    By comparison, the stats of the 'badge' (agi/int/str proc) and 'insignia' (agi/int/str on use) are
    1343 Power
    322 Resil
    Use/equip: blah blah blah

    I'm sure the mastery or crit is okay for some classes, but that's a HUGE chunk of PvP power that no other race can really afford to get. And on top of that, you also gain the benefit of a sizable proc of a primary stat.

    EMFH is still OP.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by kindath View Post
    The stats on the CC breaking trinket are
    1021 Mastery/spirit/(maybe crit? It's been datamined but doesn't show on beta)
    322 Resil
    322 Power
    Use: Remove all blah blah blah.

    By comparison, the stats of the 'badge' (agi/int/str proc) and 'insignia' (agi/int/str on use) are
    1343 Power
    322 Resil
    Use/equip: blah blah blah

    I'm sure the mastery or crit is okay for some classes, but that's a HUGE chunk of PvP power that no other race can really afford to get. And on top of that, you also gain the benefit of a sizable proc of a primary stat.

    EMFH is still OP.
    Well it depends how well PVP Power scales compared to secondary stats... but there's no doubt that humans will rule the pre-patch:
    http://www.wowdb.com/items/73538-cat...ion-of-cruelty
    vs
    http://www.wowdb.com/items/73491-cat...nia-of-victory
    http://www.wowdb.com/items/73496-cat...dge-of-victory

    Medallions have secondary stats while Insignias and Badges have main stats. Sigh.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    Do you even know what "diminishing returns" means?
    Why do you say that? Do we know if it will have DR yet or not? Current Res does. His comment is relevant unless i'm missing something.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by iamthedevil View Post
    Why do you say that? Do we know if it will have DR yet or not? Current Res does. His comment is relevant unless i'm missing something.
    People don't avoid resilience because of diminishing returns. Diminishing returns just make sure the stat gain is equal across all percentages. That's all.

  14. #14
    High Overlord Beardlust's Avatar
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    In the beginning of each expansion, EMFHS will be at it's lowest power.
    As seasons go on, Orc racial will still only give X attack/spell power, Trolls will only get 20% haste but the mobility trinket that Humans don't need will be used as a bonus stat that will increase with each season. So the more seasons per expansion, the more powerful humans will get. Unless they start scaling racials to iLvl's. Don't see that happening.

  15. #15
    wow another thread with people crying about humans racial.get over it already-nothing in this game is balanced-not pvp or pve or racials.horde have the best +dps racials in game "without question for pve"so whats wrong with humans having the best racial for pvp?

    RUN HERE COME THE HUMANS AND THERE OP'ED RACIALS!


    ---------- Post added 2012-08-24 at 06:12 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Beardlust View Post
    In the beginning of each expansion, EMFHS will be at it's lowest power.
    As seasons go on, Orc racial will still only give X attack/spell power, Trolls will only get 20% haste but the mobility trinket that Humans don't need will be used as a bonus stat that will increase with each season. So the more seasons per expansion, the more powerful humans will get. Unless they start scaling racials to iLvl's. Don't see that happening.
    BF @ level 90 is 4514ap.that to me is the best racial in game,no other racial gives that big of a boost.

  16. #16
    I hope Blizzard realizes that the key to a balanced human racial is in the pvp trinkets and not the racial itself. There is no need to touch the racial if you tune the pvp trinkets right. It is easy to illustrate with examples.

    Example 1) CC breaking PvP trinket becomes the best PvP trinket regardless of its CC breaking on use effect, now human racial is worthless because even they want to equip this trinket

    Example 2) CC breaking PvP trinkets are weak except for the CC breaking effect, this makes human racial overpowered.

    Obviously balance lies somewhere between those two examples. The point is that there is no need to directly nerf the racial itself (as they attempted once by putting it on a 5 min cd). There is not necessarily any need to touch the pve trinkets either. The balancing can be done with the PvP trinket budget alone.
    Last edited by 6kle; 2012-08-25 at 08:55 AM.

  17. #17
    High Overlord Beardlust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    wow another thread with people crying about humans racial.get over it already-nothing in this game is balanced-not pvp or pve or racials.horde have the best +dps racials in game "without question for pve"so whats wrong with humans having the best racial for pvp?

    RUN HERE COME THE HUMANS AND THERE OP'ED RACIALS!


    ---------- Post added 2012-08-24 at 06:12 PM ----------



    BF @ level 90 is 4514ap.that to me is the best racial in game,no other racial gives that big of a boost.
    I haven't been rummaging around too much, but looking at my Cataclysmic Gladiator's Badge of Victory, I gain 2,419 Str which is approximately 4,838.
    So, what you're saying is a level scaling racial (4514 AP according to you) that gives as much attack power as a clicky trinket from a previous expansion + a current clicky (4236 STR =8472 AP) is better than having a clicky(4236 STR) AND a proccy(2939STR=5878AP) ?

    Just in case I cluttered it stupid, here it is cleaned up

    Orc = 4514 AP + 8472 AP = 12,986AP
    vs
    Human= 8472 AP + 5878 AP= 14,300 AP

    And this is just for the first season of the expansion. So right now, it's approximately 1k AP difference and it will only grow with each arena season. Right now, a valid argument is RNG of procs vs controlled bursts of Racial + Trinket... but I don't know how that will stand 3 seasons in.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by 6kle View Post
    I hope Blizzard realizes that the key to a balanced human racial is in the pvp trinkets and not the racial itself. There is no need to touch the racial if you tune the pvp trinkets right. It is easy to illustrate with examples.

    Example 1) CC breaking PvP trinket becomes the best PvP trinket regardless of its CC breaking on use effect, now human racial is worthless because even they want to equip this trinket

    Example 2) CC breaking PvP trinkets are weak except for the CC breaking effect, this makes human racial overpowered.

    Obviously balance lies somewhere between those two examples. The point is that there is no need to directly nerf the racial itself (as they attempted once by putting it on a 5 min cd). There is not necessarily any need to touch the pve trinkets either. The balancing can be done with the PvP trinket budget alone.
    OR

    example 3) Give human racial to every race (baseline at level 1) and give humans a new racial similar to others.

  19. #19
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mzpaugustus View Post
    So, I just wanted to hear your views on this matter. We all know how the players who rolled Humans had the possibility of using a PvE dps trinket for PvP, now as we have PvP power along with resilience on PvP items, is that going to be a huge change once again ? Do you expect the players that faction changed to Alliance(Humans) to faction change back to Horde ? Do you expect the top arena teams having less humans and more players of other races ?
    Of the top 10 arena teams in the world last season, 8 of them were either double undead RLS or triple undead RMP, one of them was human RMP, one of them was alliance jungle cleave. It is a fallacy that EMFHS was stronger than Undead even last season. This season, with Undead inexplicably getting a big buff (because TotG is a big buff) - and still being the clear winner for pvp - and EMFHS getting effectively nerfed - we may see 10/10 top teams being double or triple undead!

    (The only reason you see double undead RLS's is because shamans cant be undead, if they could - it would be triple undead RLS's versus triple undead RMP's)

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-03 at 02:13 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitond View Post
    OR

    example 3) Give human racial to every race (baseline at level 1) and give humans a new racial similar to others.
    This is the proper thing to do, but while they're at it - a ton of races could use better racials.

    The whole racial system needs an overhaul really.
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  20. #20
    I am Murloc! Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iamthedevil View Post
    Current Res does.
    Resilience had increasing returns pre-patch, and now scales exponentially. Check the sticky at the top of the forum.

    PvP Power scales linearly and interacts with Resilience multiplicitavely. Depending on how primary stats match up to PvP power (on a class by class basis), it may be that Humans will take the trinket anyway for more PvP Power.
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