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  1. #61
    Pay to win = Being able to acquire any gameplay benefit in game through the use of real world currency. Cosmetic/Vanity items are not included.

    WOW = Nothing except vanity/cosmetic is buyable with money (Not P2Win)
    D3 = Everything you could possibly want is buyable with money (P2Win)
    SWTOR = If you can get xp bonus, currency or equipment/items with more than a mere vanity/cosmetic use, it is P2Win)

  2. #62
    Epic! Blockygame's Avatar
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    Ios and Android markets are a good example.
    HOOKED ON DIABLOL, GOOD TIMES ARE BEING HAD

  3. #63
    for example if im a millionare i win all the time cuz i can pay for all the stuff i want

  4. #64
    Herald of the Titans Varyk's Avatar
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    Pay 2 Win is only when you can pay money for a competitive advantage concerning GAMEPLAY only, not achievements, not vanity items, only game play. It's only pay 2 win if the advantage makes you stronger than people who didn't pay for said service/item/buff/etc.

  5. #65
    Free 2 Play model used to be a rediculous joke until recently.
    For example, Allods is a russian MMO, previously possible to play the game with no fee of any kind.
    At some point in the games existence they reduced all the damage, healing and healthmitigation by 100% and they offered an elixir through their Cash Shop that provides an increase in said stats by 200%. Making the game Pay 2 Win.

    TF2 and GW2 have taken the f2p model to a good direction where you purchase vanity and cosmetic items instead of actual in-game improvements.
    There are some limitations though (in my book).

    People often mistake the concept of effort vs time. (So do game developers)
    Some stuff takes time and makes you grind it. Such as experience or reputation, in wich case purchasing consumables to boost said things is fine by me.
    Stuff that you can aquire only through the cash shop to improve your character or give you an advantage over other players should not be sold in the cash shop.
    Specific PvP gear, Damage and survivability boosts, etc.
    "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" - Calvin and Hobbes

  6. #66
    For example, Allods is a russian MMO, previously possible to play the game with no fee of any kind.
    At some point in the games existence they reduced all the damage, healing and healthmitigation by 100% and they offered an elixir through their Cash Shop that provides an increase in said stats by 200%. Making the game Pay 2 Win.
    I like this one.

  7. #67
    Fluffy Kitten
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    Personally, I define P2W as being able to purchase for real money anything that benefits the character/player in any manner that isn't purely cosmetic in nature.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    It's clear you're simply backing up a stubbornly unwavering opinion, here. Perhaps in the future you could work on your wording in scenarios where people don't agree with you. It's also extremely obvious that you're incredibly biased on the subject and even a little bitter. Your ignorant assumptions aside, in your scenario, as much as you're trying to justify your reasoning, you're still not explaining how anyone "won" anything to support the "pay to win" claim.

    If I'm broke and can't afford an in game leather jacket, that doesn't mean someone with more money won. That means they bought a jacket. Yay for them. If I'm struggling to up my stats on my warrior, and another warrior pays real money for gear that has stats on it and completes all his tasks much quicker and easier because of it, he's paid to win.

    It's not that I don't see your point. Perspective is perspective, after all, but viewpoints aside, only in one of those scenarios did someone actual have a measurable advantage and victory. He paid real money to aquire something that wasn't available without paying that real money. He paid to win.
    his argument is straightforward, you are being purposefully obtuse. straying off topic for a moment, the selling of any item degrades the integrity of a game.

    free to play might as well just be relabeled pay to win, in my opinion any game containing any micro-transaction borderlines on pay to win.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by jakeic View Post
    his argument is straightforward, you are being purposefully obtuse. straying off topic for a moment, the selling of any item degrades the integrity of a game.

    free to play might as well just be relabeled pay to win, in my opinion any game containing any micro-transaction borderlines on pay to win.
    Please, tell me how selling a fabulous purple hat or a fancy coat with no combat stats on it degrades the integrity of the game. Tell me how it directly impacts your enjoyment of the actual game itself. Tell me how it gives others a competitive advantage (which is the definition of pay to win) by paying real money, that you don't have access to through in-game means.

    Please, go on in great detail. Pay to win isn't a nebulous term with different meanings. It's very clearly defined as a system which sells power through the cash shop that is unattainable through in-game means. There are subtle variations at most (with the "unattainable through in-game means" being altered to "unattainable through reasonable in-game means" for example), but it's not a term that applies to the sale of any items or services that do not affect character power.

    By your (wrong) definition of pay to win, WoW has been pay to win since they added in mounts and pets, and you could argue that the sale of services such as race and gender changes, faction changes, and server transfers are all also pay to win mechanics. And arguing that those are "pay to win" features is foolish. You can argue whether or not paid services like that are healthy for a game, specifically with regards to paid faction transfers, but arguing that it somehow gives you a competitive advantage over another player that they don't have access to outside of the cash shop is wrong.

  10. #70
    Edge, didn't you know? Bright purple hats may blind the opposition in PvP making it superior to other less purple hats!

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Forsedar View Post
    Edge, didn't you know? Bright purple hats may blind the opposition in PvP making it superior to other less purple hats!
    Minipets help guilds one shot hard modes.

    Obviously.
    Lv30 (Warframe) - Volt - Boltor Prime - Lex Prime - Dragon Nikana -
    Lv40 (Firefall) - Dragonfly - Recluse - Biotech - Mammoth - Arsenal - Dreadnought - Nighthawk - Raptor - Recon - Tigerclaw - Electron -
    Lv60 (Neverwinter) - Rogue - Fighter - Wizard - Guardian - Cleric -

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    Minipets help guilds one shot hard modes.

    Obviously.
    There used to be a mini-pet that kept aggro on mobs/bosses that was invulnerable (the CE droid). :x

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Forsedar View Post
    There used to be a mini-pet that kept aggro on mobs/bosses that was invulnerable (the CE droid). :x
    PAY TO WIN!!! ZOMG! ALERT THE INTERNETS!!!

    But that is hilarious.

    See? Collectors edition WAS worth the extra hundred.
    Lv30 (Warframe) - Volt - Boltor Prime - Lex Prime - Dragon Nikana -
    Lv40 (Firefall) - Dragonfly - Recluse - Biotech - Mammoth - Arsenal - Dreadnought - Nighthawk - Raptor - Recon - Tigerclaw - Electron -
    Lv60 (Neverwinter) - Rogue - Fighter - Wizard - Guardian - Cleric -

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    PAY TO WIN!!! ZOMG! ALERT THE INTERNETS!!!

    But that is hilarious.

    See? Collectors edition WAS worth the extra hundred.
    Don't tell anyone, but its how I solo'd the first two bosses in EV... (when it was called normal mode and a joke).

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