Someone explain Heroic lockouts please

[Netherspark]

I'm really confused with this stuff now... can someone please explain exactly how this works?

I'm saved with Morchok heroic dead, I tried to join another group who had also killed Morchok heroic and then done upto Ultraxion on normal but I can't enter. But a few weeks ago I did pretty much the same thing but I COULD enter..

[Dhryke]

Once you kill a boss on heroic, say for example, 25man you can no longer do heroics on 10 man. However you can still do normal bosses on either 10 or 25 man.

Were you attempting to do Ultraxion on normal or heroic? Was there a difference in raid size?

[Netherspark]

Same raid size, they were doing Ultraxion on heroic but all others were done on normal (except Morchok).

[Deleted]

I'm really confused with this stuff now... can someone please explain exactly how this works?

I'm saved with Morchok heroic dead, I tried to join another group who had also killed Morchok heroic and then done upto Ultraxion on normal but I can't enter. But a few weeks ago I did pretty much the same thing but I COULD enter..

On normal you can jump around and join any boss with any group you want.
On heroic, if you kill a boss you are saved to a raid ID like before. This means you cannot swap around to different groups on heroic. Someone that hasn't killed any bosses can join your heroic run, even someone that has killed 4 normal bosses. But the moment you kill a heroic boss, you are locked into that heroic ID.

Once it is set to normal, these restrictions are removed until the raid is set back to heroic.

[Spotnick]

If you kill Morchok in heroic, it saves you to a heroic raid ID, that ID remembers the boss you killed and in which format. From then on, you are limited to do heroic mode bosses only with people saved to that same heroic raid ID, or people who have done normal modes or no raid at all in the current lock-out.

People with different heroic raid IDs can group together, but they can only do normal modes together.

[Dhryke]

Nicely said clampy.

[Netherspark]

On normal you can jump around and join any boss with any group you want.
On heroic, if you kill a boss you are saved to a raid ID like before. This means you cannot swap around to different groups on heroic. Someone that hasn't killed any bosses can join your heroic run, even someone that has killed 4 normal bosses. But the moment you kill a heroic boss, you are locked into that heroic ID.

Once it is set to normal, these restrictions are removed until the raid is set back to heroic.

But I've joined heroic raids under these conditions before, having killed 1-2 heroics in my own save.

[Deleted]

As the post above me said, if you wish to continue your lockout you have to make sure it is your save that the group uses (since you killed morchok with a unique raid ID with 9 other people). Or if you find the person who made your old group and he plans to continue u can join then, but u cant join someone who wasnt in that kill ID's raid since they are in a different lock out to you.

[Deleted]

But I've joined heroic raids under these conditions before, having killed 1-2 heroics in my own save.

You likely joined the same raid lockout you were in before. You are able to regroup and carry on another day with the same people (or even some of the same people - or even just yourself with new players).

You would not be able to join a raid with a different ID though.

[Netherspark]

You likely joined the same raid lockout you were in before. You are able to regroup and carry on another day with the same people (or even some of the same people - or even just yourself with new players).

You would not be able to join a raid with a different ID though.

That time I was saved with Morchok and Yorsahj dead on heroic, the group was at Blackhorn having killed Mochok, Yorsahj and Ultraxion on heroic and I was able to join. It was definitely not the same group I was in before, that group started that night as a fresh run whereas I was saved from several days before.

The way I thought it worked is as long as you haven't killed heroic bosses that the group hasn't, you are able to join. This has seemed to be true before.

[Deleted]

So, you are in Raid#1, You kill morchok on heroic and take the rest of the night off. Those 10 or 25 people are saved to "Raid ID #10001"
Someone in Raid#2 (A different group), also kills morchok on heroic and him and his 10 or 25 buddies are saved to "Raid ID # 10002"

The next raid day comes, and group 1 cannot raid, but group 2 is looking for members. You join Raid#2 on heroic and try to enter the instance. The instance is set to "Raid ID #10002" - but you have #10001 and cannot enter.

---------- Post added 2012-06-08 at 04:38 PM ----------

That time I was saved with Morchok and Yorsahj dead on heroic, the group was at Blackhorn having killed Mochok, Yorsahj and Ultraxion on heroic and I was able to join. It was definitely not the same group I was in before.

If the raid was set to normal, even with heroic bosses killed in different groups, you would be able to enter.
If the raid was set on heroic, even if they haven't yet killed any bosses, you would not be able to enter.
If the raid was set on heroic, with at least 1 player with the same ID as you (using the same save), you would be able to enter.

Its not possible to join a heroic group with a different ID.

[Netherspark]

Hmm, ok... so using my first post as an example:

I could not join them as they were trying Ultraxion heroic, BUT if they had killed him without me and then set to normal for Blackhorn I COULD join after that?

Or if they had wiped and decided to do Ultraxion on normal I could join?

[Deleted]

Hmm, ok... so using my first post as an example:

I could not join them as they were trying Ultraxion heroic, BUT if they had killed him without me and then set to normal for Blackhorn I COULD join after that?

Or if they had wiped and decided to do Ultraxion on normal I could join?

Exactly correct.

And to elaborate from there - if you were inside with them, and they tried to set it to heroic, it would say "Netherspark is saved to a different raid" or something similar.

[Netherspark]

Exactly correct.

And to elaborate from there - if you were inside with them, and they tried to set it to heroic, it would say "Netherspark is saved to a different raid" or something similar.

Ok. What if the group I join had done every boss on normal and then tried to set heroic after I joined? That would work, right, and would save them to my ID?

[Spotnick]

Ok. What if the group I join had done every boss on normal and then tried to set heroic? That would work, right, and would save them to my ID?

Yes, but if you guys decided to try a hard mode, then the whole group would have been saved to your heroic raid ID.

[Netherspark]

Cool, thanks.

[Dililah]

Bashiok explains it all here too.

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2...system-in-401/

[Deleted]

Ok. What if the group I join had done every boss on normal and then tried to set heroic after I joined? That would work, right, and would save them to my ID?

Yea, but if I remember correctly you will enter your own raid alone (even if you are in the situation you described) and they would need to leave their raid and re-enter to enter your raid ID.

The moment they step inside the raid (if its set on heroic) they will get saved. No boss kill is required to save a player.

[Deleted]

I have no intention of understanding it.


Blizz turned it into a clusterfuk where even most hardcore raiders have no clue how the lockout system works.


Me being one of them.

---------- Post added 2012-06-08 at 06:30 PM ----------

Bashiok explains it all here too.

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2...system-in-401/

Perfectly demonstrating how much of a clusterfuk it is.


Takes a long wall of text to explain it.


I could design the lockout system way better than anyone appears to at Blizzard - (this isnt how it works btw, just how easy it is to explain a system)

1) Once a boss is dead on normal/heroic it is dead until next reset
2) If you switch the raid to heroic and kill a boss, the remaining bosses are locked to the heroic versions



Me > Anyone at Blizzard at being able to explain raid lockouts

[Dandello19]

I have no intention of understanding it.


Blizz turned it into a clusterfuk where even most hardcore raiders have no clue how the lockout system works.


Me being one of them.

---------- Post added 2012-06-08 at 06:30 PM ----------



Perfectly demonstrating how much of a clusterfuk it is.


Takes a long wall of text to explain it.


I could design the lockout system way better than anyone appears to at Blizzard - (this isnt how it works btw, just how easy it is to explain a system)

1) Once a boss is dead on normal/heroic it is dead until next reset
2) If you switch the raid to heroic and kill a boss, the remaining bosses are locked to the heroic versions



Me > Anyone at Blizzard at being able to explain raid lockouts

Blizzard should hire this man ^