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  1. #41
    Stood in the Fire
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    Mastery is stronger because of Spirit Shell, but also weaker because Power Word: Shield is far more punitive to our mana situation than before today. For me personally I see it as a wash really because the opportunities before to precast Power Word: Shields on the raid is exactly now when I will be using Spirit Shell instead which will result in a pretty similar percentage of my healing coming from absorbs.

  2. #42
    Stood in the Fire Ellumina's Avatar
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    I healed through 8/8HM yesterday as Disc in full [formerly] BiS gear (well, Shadow for Ultraxion, but Disc for the rest), and mana was a HUGE problem for me. Please tell me I'm not the only one going crazy over mana >< I underestimated how greatly they nerfed our regen.Some fights I was at 50% mana or lower within the first minute or two of a fight! Used to run about 2.2k spirit and brought myself up to 2.6k yesterday for the raid (I also have H Heart of Unliving).I definitely wasn't prepared to struggle this hard on mana.



    *Talents I'm running:

    Dominate Mind: Meh, I just picked a random one. I'm not much of a PvPer.

    Body and Soul: I haven't given Angelic Feathers a try yet, but I'll be testing it out in my Holy spec later. I have always wanted Body and Soul as Disc, seeing as how we are very PW:Shield oriented. I'm certain Angelic Feathers would shine on certain fights, but MoP progression begins, I will 100% be sticking to Body and Soul.

    Mindbender/PW:Solace: I swapped between trying out Mindbender and Solace regen, and it highly depends om the fight and downtime. On a fight like H Madness, there is plenty of downtime where it was a no brainer for me to pick up Solace. Also, Mindbender regen seems rather underwhelming (which I supposed it should considering it's on a 1 minute CD). Shadowfiend regen is noticeably stronger, plus it syncs up well with Hymn of Hope (essentially you can HoH with every other SF, or even have a HoH for every SF if you have an awesome Priest raiding buddy).

    Desperate Prayer: A very familiar choice. I do want to give Angelic Bulwark a try, but I feel that it is a bit useless in current gear until MoP hits. I can see it being rather useful during progression since the CD is quite short, but it'd be important to also track the CD on it.

    Power Infusion: I tried every talent in this tier. Twist of Fate was a bit underwhelming. The reason I picked it up to begin with is because it applies to both damage and healing. It does 15% more damage and 15% more healing, which means Holy Fire and Smite damage is increases (increased damage means increased Atonement healing) and the 15% healing increase will further increase Atonement healing. I'm assuming increased healing modifiers like Archangel still increase the effects of Atonement healing (I know this used to be the case in the past). I dislike Divine Insight, seeing as I don't really want/need to spam a shield on one person, and even if I did need to break the Weakened Soul rather quickly, I could just Greater Heal a few times. Power Infusion is a no brainer for me right now. Very controllable, mana cost reduction on spells, and works with out T13 2set. Without picking up PI, our T13 2set is obsolete. Similarly, I picked up PI as Holy and I'm assuming PI will proc our 2set in that spec now!



    *Glyph choices:

    Prayer of Mending: I believe every Priest healer should get this. There is no reason not to. My PoM charges rarely run their full course ><

    Penance: It hasn't been of great use to me yet, but I know it will be. I'm just not used to the fact that I can Penance while moving now, so I still stand and Penance pretty regularly. Also, it's a nice DPS on the move spell.

    Power Word: Shield: I haven't determined whether I am sticking to this glyph yet. My logic behind this is 1) aside from Rapture purposes, I use PW:S to save lives (example: H Spine, someone low and gripped by Corruption). The instant heal is nice, and I assume can also crit and form a DA (like the former PW:S glyph could do), essentially increases its potential throughput. If you're a bubble spammer and like to spam bubbles on a bunch of people before major damage, then this may not be the glyph for you. Also, with a slightly decreased PW:S size means shields would break quicker (good for Rapture).

    *Glyphs on standby:

    Holy Fire: I would highly recommend this, and am still debating to pick it up and replace a glyph. Instant damage and healing at a pretty low mana cost

    Smite: I would only take this paired with Holy Fire. Very viable pickup on any fight where you find yourself using Atonement a lot (I Atonement heal quite a bit on H Madness prepatch, as well as post patch since we were overhealing anyways).

    Holy Nova: I miss Holy Nova as a baseline heal! It may not have been very strong, but I loved it deep down. I actually used Holy Nova during H Madness progression (even major glyphed it) to help with AoEing on bloods on Deathwing's head. I picked it up again last night on DW because our damage was really lacking on the bloods for some reason. Between Holy Novaing those bloods as well as the bloods on each platform, Holy Nova did 782k healing (6.2%) and 986k damage, not including the 5 mil from overall Spellweave damage. So I think Holy Nova could be a very situational spell still. If I heal Ultraxion next week, I might pick this glyph up for fun =P

    Mass Dispel: At the moment, I don't care to use the Mass Dispel glyph, though for progression I may need it with the CD on dispels now. If only the mana cost wasnt still so high x.x



    *A few changes I think I will make:

    Dreamwraps of the Light > H Bracers of the Banished: Those crafted bracers are actually amazing, and now I want all the spirit I can get. I might even try putting non intellect gems in as well.

    Splinterfoot Sandals > Janglespur Jackboots: Similar to the above. More spirit!

    Heartsong > Power Torrent: Fortunately, I was able to pick up a second Maw yesterday and enchant it with Heartsong. I used to time my mana return CDs like Arcane Torrent and Shadowfiend with PT, but now PT is just minor throughput increase with 0 effect in regen, and I care little about throughput right now (I'll care about it again during progression =P)

    I have other 397 gear with some spirit too that my 410 gear lacks, like a ring and belt, but for now I'm going to make those few changes until I find a comfortable amount of spirit to be running with. All I can say is right now, regen just feels way too low.



    Holy VS Disc: I healed the second half of LFR as Holy to compare the two specs, and the difference feels enormous. Regen doesn't seem nearly as bad for Holy, especially when taking into account Holy's incredible throughout. 6.3k Sanctuary every 40 seconds lasting almost 40 seconds that does incredible amounts of healing. Sanc and Divine Hymn alone provide insane healing per mana. My Disc Priest is incredibly jealous, and at this rate I'm tempted to be Holy for MoP. But at the same time, my heart still lies with Disc and I like a challenge to get better rather than faceroll with Holy, raid healing as a slightly subpar healer right now with minimal AoE healing.

    Inner Focus: The changes to IF make me sad, especially as a Priest going oom now. I have IF bound to spells that use it in order to use it on CD, but now I'm undecided whether to keep it that way or to make it a separate bind due to the 100% crit now. I believe I will still attach IF to Flash Heal, simply because in my mind, if I need to Flash Heal somebody, that means they need that heal ASAP. And a crit for that heal would be a great way to top someone off who was about to die. I supposed I have to be more cautious between GH and PoH uses for IF. In all honesty, I prefer the old IF, but this is just a personal preference.

    Rapture: My saddest realization last night was that there is a net loss in mana from using PW:S to gaining Rapture (4set bonus aside). I realize our rapture was a very strong regen tool before, but between the nerf to this, IF, and capped mana pools, regen has been hellish. I desperately hope some sort of change can be made to Rapture, because I'm not too content with its current state.



    TL;DR: "OH GOD I'M OOM! WHERE'D ALL MY MANA GO?!"

  3. #43
    Herald of the Titans Yilar's Avatar
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    Holy nova serves absolutely no purpose other than killing critters.

    You can do 1 mind sear and 1 poh and do more healing and dmg than you would using holy nova.

  4. #44
    High Overlord Zosyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yilar View Post
    Holy nova serves absolutely no purpose other than killing critters.

    You can do 1 mind sear and 1 poh and do more healing and dmg than you would using holy nova.

    ^^^^ agreed. I do not really understand the point of that post...

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Yilar View Post
    Holy nova serves absolutely no purpose other than killing critters.

    You can do 1 mind sear and 1 poh and do more healing and dmg than you would using holy nova.
    Have you actually crunched the numbers on that? 8 seconds of Holy Nova vs a 3 second PoH and a 5 second nerfed MS? At the beginning of Cataclysm, Holy Nova did more DPS in grouped AoE because MS had been nerfed into the ground.

    It has also served multiple purposes in PvP. Snakes, stealth and mobile healing.

  6. #46
    Stood in the Fire Ellumina's Avatar
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    Well, I liked Holy Nova back in Madness progression because it's very mobile and I'm able to heal while doing damage simultaneously, both of which were essential at the time. I know some people Mind Sear those adds instead, but that took me away from any and all healing as I was channeling. I guess at the end of the day it is a personal preference whether to use it at all, but I'm curious to see how much healing it can really do in a stacked group (hence my example of using it on Ultraxion), but it obviously wouldn't be a main spell and wouldn't be used over PoH.

  7. #47
    Herald of the Titans Yilar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiporispit View Post
    Have you actually crunched the numbers on that? 8 seconds of Holy Nova vs a 3 second PoH and a 5 second nerfed MS? At the beginning of Cataclysm, Holy Nova did more DPS in grouped AoE because MS had been nerfed into the ground.

    It has also served multiple purposes in PvP. Snakes, stealth and mobile healing.
    Holy nova heals for like 17,5k atm every cast on 5 people. 5x holy nova = 87500 ~ 13888 hps over 6,3 seconds
    PoH heals for almost 102680k including absorbs on 5 people. ~ 15848 hps over 6,48 seconds

    Holy nova does 2,2k for every hit x 5 = 11k ~ 1746dps over 6,3 seconds
    Mind sear does 2,6k every tick ~ 5 ticks = 13K ~ 2006 dps over 6,48 seconds

    At 15,63% haste
    1 mind sear = 4.32 sec + 1 poh = 2.16 sec = 6,48 seconds
    Holy nova is 1,26 sec (1,5 x 0,8437) 1,26 x 5 = 6,3 seconds

    The real kicker however is the mana usage.
    5x Holy nova is 13k mana
    vs 1x mind sear + 1x poh (3k mana + 4,5k mana) is 7,5k mana.

    Doesn't take a genius to figure out that holy nova is quite crappy atm.
    Last edited by Yilar; 2012-08-29 at 07:08 PM.

  8. #48
    Field Marshal DrakeZ's Avatar
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    So just a few things I would add myself to this:
    Spirit shell could be quite awesome for 10 man raiding, but for 25man it feels quite meh -.-
    It does scale with mastery. Does not benefit from crit at all (inner focus makes no difference in absorbs), Does not benefit from Archangel, but strangely it DOES benefit from grace.

    I still have a feeling that disc is going to be the spec of my choice (10 man heroic raider), the ability to prevent bursts of damage is quite nice, even though I feel the numbers should be a bit more higher.

  9. #49
    Stood in the Fire Ellumina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yilar View Post
    Holy nova heals for like 17,5k atm every cast on 5 people. 5x holy nova = 87500 ~ 13888 hps over 6,3 seconds
    PoH heals for almost 102680k including absorbs on 5 people. ~ 15848 hps over 6,48 seconds

    Holy nova does 2,2k for every hit x 5 = 11k ~ 1746dps over 6,3 seconds
    Mind sear does 2,6k every tick ~ 5 ticks = 13K ~ 2006 dps over 6,48 seconds

    At 15,63% haste
    1 mind sear = 4.32 sec + 1 poh = 2.16 sec = 6,48 seconds
    Holy nova is 1,26 sec (1,5 x 0,8437) 1,26 x 5 = 6,3 seconds

    The real kicker however is the mana usage.
    5x Holy nova is 13k mana
    vs 1x mind sear + 1x poh (3k mana + 4,5k mana) is 7,5k mana.

    Doesn't take a genius to figure out that holy nova is quite crappy atm.
    Holy nova in terms of actual HPS and damage isn't great, it's more of its utility that makes me still like it. Plus, I feel like if I used Mind Sear, I'd probably cast it, not channel the full spell based on movement / add placement or need to heal, so I'd likely be casting more than one Mind Sear, if not spamming it. Hmm, although I'm just looking at it and I noticed it's only 3k mana now for a Mind Sear O_O It was previously a lot more, wasn't it?

  10. #50
    Dreadlord Vynistra's Avatar
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    Love this guide so far, it's helping me really think about my Disc Priest. But what made me giggle was...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ammunae View Post
    Professions:

    Tailoring: Leg/Clock enchants
    Hehe clock enchants.

  11. #51
    Herald of the Titans Yilar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellumina View Post
    Holy nova in terms of actual HPS and damage isn't great, it's more of its utility that makes me still like it. Plus, I feel like if I used Mind Sear, I'd probably cast it, not channel the full spell based on movement / add placement or need to heal, so I'd likely be casting more than one Mind Sear, if not spamming it. Hmm, although I'm just looking at it and I noticed it's only 3k mana now for a Mind Sear O_O It was previously a lot more, wasn't it?
    You can cast mind sear on allies. There's no need to move around. I've actually topped dmg on bloods as a disc priest with bt-pi infused mind sear targetting the tank.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Ellumina View Post
    *snip*
    Thanks for the very informative post!

    This made me sad though:

    Holy VS Disc: I healed the second half of LFR as Holy to compare the two specs, and the difference feels enormous. Regen doesn't seem nearly as bad for Holy, especially when taking into account Holy's incredible throughout. 6.3k Sanctuary every 40 seconds lasting almost 40 seconds that does incredible amounts of healing. Sanc and Divine Hymn alone provide insane healing per mana. My Disc Priest is incredibly jealous, and at this rate I'm tempted to be Holy for MoP. But at the same time, my heart still lies with Disc and I like a challenge to get better rather than faceroll with Holy, raid healing as a slightly subpar healer right now with minimal AoE healing.




    I haven't been able to play yet, but judging from reports Disc seems very underwhelming to me. Relatively we lost a lot of tools and what did we get back? Spirit Shell. Great. It seems we will finally be reduced to PoH-bots, which in itself is a lackluster aoe-heal due to the group-restriction. Meh.

  13. #53
    High Overlord Zosyn's Avatar
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    Nevermind, I figured out how to do it! yay!
    Last edited by Zosyn; 2012-08-29 at 10:57 PM.

  14. #54
    So I'm not the only one then who was a bit underwhelmed playing poor Shadowflower today...

    I really, really don't think I'll like the whole Arc Angel/Evangelism type thing. I know this isn't a huge deal, but obviously to cast Holy Fire/Smite you have to sort of be aware where mobs are and you have to be facing them. I guess that's something I've never had to think about much as disc, facing mobs, but it's this little inconvenience I'm finding annoying.
    And the fact that I healed HoT before with a few of my raid team and almost had trouble keeping up.

    I don't want to go Holy for MOP.
    "I'm sorry, but I can't hear you over the sound of how bad ass my discipline priest looks."

  15. #55
    High Overlord Zosyn's Avatar
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    I added some pictures and made all (I think) spells links. Do you like this better!?

  16. #56
    How to heal as Disc: Penance, Holy Fire, Smite x4, Penance, Holy Fire, Smite x4 :P

    Seriously, no love for Atonement? I've yet to find a fight I couldn't get at least half my healing from Atonement. Also, this makes From Darkness, Comes Light a fairly strong talent with almost always having two free instant cast Flash Heals.

    So smart heals + bonus raid/party DPS + you don't lose the ability to fallback to "normal healing" when needed, you guys really need to rethink your play styles as Disc, stop thinking of ONLY using heals. Atonement is your friend.

  17. #57
    High Overlord Zosyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charo View Post
    How to heal as Disc: Penance, Holy Fire, Smite x4, Penance, Holy Fire, Smite x4 :P

    Seriously, no love for Atonement? I've yet to find a fight I couldn't get at least half my healing from Atonement. Also, this makes From Darkness, Comes Light a fairly strong talent with almost always having two free instant cast Flash Heals.

    So smart heals + bonus raid/party DPS + you don't lose the ability to fallback to "normal healing" when needed, you guys really need to rethink your play styles as Disc, stop thinking of ONLY using heals. Atonement is your friend.

    In MoP we will not be using AA/Evangelism like we used to before patch 5.0.4. We will not be spamming it because Smite is very mana intensive we will only be doing it if there is a damage increase buff, which would increase the heal, or to get 5 stacks for AA. I do not think we dislike Atonement...it is just not like it used to be now that we have fixed mana pools.

    Smite = 2.700 mana at level 85
    Heal - 1,900 mana at level 85

    It would be more mana efficient to use heal instead of hoping that a smite heal lands on the target you were wanting it to.

  18. #58
    The Patient
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    @Ammunae Evangelism reduces mana cost of Holy Fire and Smite by 30% bringing smite down from 2,700 mana to 1,890

    @Ellumina regarding the glyph of Power Word: Shield it was almost 100% required in cata because of the fact it just added 20% as a heal on top of the shield, the new form of the glph actually reduces the shield by 20% and turns it into a heal. This glyph diminishes the impact of mastery (though not by much), but in return the heal CAN crit and so can proc a Divine Aegis (placing some more power on crit; again, not much).

    • I agree with PoM being almost a must for glyphs. The other ones I feel have a good amount of lee-way.
    • I feel that in the early tiers of gear, where spirit won't be as high, Penance might be dropped but then as our gear scales up it will come closer to a more common choice as we can handle the mana.
    • Renew got buffed by quite a bit in MoP, and while not at Holy's level, still is a very worthy spell (compared to the near worthlessness in cata for disc), the glyph can adjust breakpoints which can potentially make Renew much stronger but gaining ticks. Ex. I don't have enough haste to get another tick in renew un-glyphed, but when i glyph it, I can get another tick. And spells are always much stronger when they gain that extra tick.
    • The PW: Shield glyph will be based on preference to me, if you are more proactive with shields then having that 20% converted to healing could potentially just lead to overhealing; on the other hand if you are more reactive then the 20% heal will help top them off and the rest of the 80% will be used to prevent further damage rather than the initial hit.
    • Glyphs for Holy Fire and Smite are of course some of the better choices depending on your usage of Atonement/AA. I will say that glyphing Holy Fire makes it very easy to keep evangelism stacks as just using Holy Fire on cooldown will gain stacks steadily, potentially allowing you to have that 5 Stack Archangel when you need it without much user input in getting Evangelism stacks.


    All in all, I like our new choices, other than PoM most of our glyphs cater towards certain playstyles allowing people to pick and choose as they like to heal without feeling that they are "losing out" by not having other glyphs.
    Last edited by Overwelm; 2012-08-30 at 03:25 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by TobiasX View Post
    Demonology Warlock = Beast Mastery Hunter
    Quote Originally Posted by Certin View Post
    Funny ... I've never seen a hunter transform into a huge ass gorilla and come and roflstomp ur ass.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Ammunae View Post
    In MoP we will not be using AA/Evangelism like we used to before patch 5.0.4. We will not be spamming it because Smite is very mana intensive we will only be doing it if there is a damage increase buff, which would increase the heal, or to get 5 stacks for AA. I do not think we dislike Atonement...it is just not like it used to be now that we have fixed mana pools.

    Smite = 2.700 mana at level 85
    Heal - 1,900 mana at level 85

    It would be more mana efficient to use heal instead of hoping that a smite heal lands on the target you were wanting it to.
    Like the post below this one says, Evangelism reduces the cost of Smite, Holy Fire, AND Penance by 30%, Smite's cast time is almost half of Heal's cast time, adds raid DPS, is a smart heal, benefits from both DPS and healing buffs (and debuffs), and is just plain good ole' fun.

    Seriously, try it.

  20. #60
    Stood in the Fire Kirse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellumina View Post
    Holy nova in terms of actual HPS and damage isn't great, it's more of its utility that makes me still like it.
    I still think that Holy Nova should be baseline because it's so situational. Holy nova is for aoe killing low level mobs, preventing flag caps in PVP (people were stealing them from under my nose and I couldn't do anything about it after losing the ability), and unstealthing sneaky players.
    "Healing is a game of Hungry Hungry Hippos. All the healers try to gobble all the marbles up. Disc priests take the marbles off the board."

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