1. #1
    Moderator Azshira's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Cork, Ireland
    Posts
    2,891

    Thoughts on LFR Loot/pacing changes

    Firstly: Do not de-rail the thread or QQ about how LFR should/should not be within WoW, etc etc etc.


    Hey all with the most recent blue:
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...65?page=26#509

    What do you make of it?

    A run-down of changes:

    - LFR will no longer award higher ilvl on the end boss of each raid, they will now be the same ilvl across the board through the whole dungeon (476 Vaults and 483 others).

    - If they decide to give a bump for end bosses in future it will be normal/hc ONLY.

    - LFR in future content patches will award slightly better than normal mode loot, however, it will not have power against the previous raids hc loot.

    - Terrace of Endless Springs and Heart of Fear are now divided into three separate queues that will unlock 1 week after the previous queue unlocks, example: 1st HoF section. One week later: 2nd HoF section. One week after that: Terrace unlocks on LFR.


    I personally checked on beta and these changes have occured and items adjusted as needed. The reason for these changes was to alleviate some pressure on the raiding guilds, so it designed to not interfere with their progress path, you can still run it however. By the time all of the bosses are available in LFR difficulty with the new changes, normal/hc raiders will have had two full weeks to work on normal difficulty and one week for Heroic difficulty with the two new raids (after Vaults is released).
    Proud Moderator of Raids and Dungeons.
    "You face not the Mod Hammer alone, but the infractions I command."

  2. #2
    Pleased to see Blizz have listened to the arguements and made these changes.
    Last edited by Hallowquest; 2012-08-23 at 12:33 PM.

  3. #3
    I am Murloc! Fenixdown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    5,909
    Quote Originally Posted by Azshira View Post
    - LFR in future content patches will award slightly better than normal mode loot, however, it will not have power against the previous raids hc loot.
    You may wish to edit this a bit. I had to re-read it to understand exactly what you meant, because the way it's currently typed it sounds like new LFR gear will be better than new normal mode gear.

    Someone's likely to blow a gasket if they understand it that way. :P

    As for the changes, they're fine. The biggest one to me, though, is the change in the loot system. Since you can't gera swap anymore, there's really no major point in taking whole guilds into LFR unless you just REALLY need the gear (or you just don't have enough raiders for the day).

    I'm already wanting to talk about this with our officers. We ran LFR for gearing purposes during our scheduled raid week in DS (usually at the end of the week, though). I think we should avoid it this time around during the raid week and do it just on off days.

    However, one thing I wouldn't mind seeing an addition to is a list of the items you could win if you win the loot role. This might prevent more people from just arbitrarily hitting need on their button (this is, of course, if the system even works that way in the first place, or if it just arbitrarily decides if you won on it's own and gives you a goodie).

  4. #4
    Moderator Azshira's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Cork, Ireland
    Posts
    2,891
    Hmm I read that sentence fine because it deals with future content patches, hut Il add in brackets 5.1+. As for whole guilds doing it, its not just guilds themselves but raiders solely going there needing to do them to get better gear. It helps reduce the need after a weeks perhaps since the ilvl will be the same across the board. People will still run it but in future when the ilvl of lfr is lower than hc gear people may not do it as much since it will offer worse loot. However, tier gear would still be very valuable depending on set bonuses.

    Loot works independent of how many people roll need so even if all 25 do, it wont affect your personal chance.
    Proud Moderator of Raids and Dungeons.
    "You face not the Mod Hammer alone, but the infractions I command."

  5. #5
    Another step on the right direction.

    When LFR was first announced last summer, i got panicked that this will be the end of social aspect of the game having in mind that:
    1) RDF+OP Valor rewards made dungeons a grind down from a meangfull experience with your friends. Thus raids where the only social PvE content left.
    2) LFR announcement made me think of smt similar to RDF, meaning normal modes available through LFR, with "aspect of the grinder", with bugs to lure tanks and healers in.

    Thank god, my worse fear never got veriefied.
    Blizzard brought a deliberately undertuned version of the raid (a bit too much tbh though), and awarded lower than normal modes gear. Those moves made sure that guilds that would otherwise die, survived the cataclysm LFR brought to the game.

    At the implementation some weak points became obvious.
    1) Loot distribution
    2) And Loot quality due to itemization (OP prc trinkets, OP tier bonuses for most specs, OP weapons).
    3) The facerollable Dragon Soul was available from day one, and the last boss from day 8 of the tier patch.

    The first created the so called "i got ninjaed" wars.
    The second created paths for potential exploit from organized teams to get the edge, in progression.
    The third, combined with the second (and the not so super content on top), made people feel more burned than ever from the game.

    Now, LFR is delayed one week, and loot will be tuned to be non mandatory for heroic raiders to run LFR.
    Also the new loot system is making the loot distribution impersonal, which will remove most of the "i got ninjaed" whining and most importantly the exploits (small group of people rolling need on everything and giving loot to their buddies, guilds running with 3 to 6 mains and reast alts the same raid 6-10 times a week to gear up the mains asap).

    Put next to those things the many out of raids things to do added, like challenge modes, senarios, pet battles (not for me but w/e), farms (not for me but w/e), and the reputation based dailies.

    It seems like world of warcraft is shifting back to a more balanced aproach after the cataclysm that almost destroyed it.

  6. #6
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Posts
    11,089
    It's an excellent change. The loot is good enough for those who have no interest in normal/heroic raiding and what was never 'required' before or 'forced' is now even less so. All around, a good thing.

  7. #7
    So basically

    TL;DR

    Blizzard appeases the few hardcore raiders by gimping everyone else?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Arkrus View Post
    So basically

    TL;DR

    Blizzard appeases the few hardcore raiders by gimping everyone else?
    Not really, I think they're just testing how casual we really are. I personally don't care when things are released, it's all I have the time/energy to do and if I do it 6 months after the normal/heroic guys, so be it. If you're not so casual as to demand immediate access, then you should be fine to run normal stuff even via pugs.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Prag View Post
    Not really, I think they're just testing how casual we really are. I personally don't care when things are released, it's all I have the time/energy to do and if I do it 6 months after the normal/heroic guys, so be it. If you're not so casual as to demand immediate access, then you should be fine to run normal stuff even via pugs.
    Fair enough.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Arkrus View Post
    So basically

    TL;DR

    Blizzard appeases the few hardcore raiders by gimping everyone else?
    Why is it gimping? This is a progression not available until recently for the players where the gear quality actually matters, it's obvious that some fine tuning on the LFR had to be made. If you need better quality gear for whatever reason there is still normals.

  11. #11
    Its Gimping because even in the next raid if the gear is still less than the previous raid's heroic how would it allow someone to move from doing normals and then to HC?

    Now, before LFR people would have to hope to find guilds or wait around for 4 hours for someone to start an old content raid and if it was near the end of an expansion forget it just wait it out and try to catch up in the next expansion.

    LFR (pre changes) would have allowed people to move from finishing a character (getting to 90) near the 3rd raid of an expansion and have them be "somewhat" geared

    Now the gear will be so lame in LFR guilds wont want to run with the casuals at all.

    Its all about progression and if you cant match up progression then nobody wants to raid with you.

    The system was there to cater to the casuals, fine. But because guilds felt that it was easier to start their progression with LFR and move up they did so and people started to complain.

    Bottom line, things arent changing because LFR didnt work at all. It worked perfectly.

    Nobody "Forced"(Like I keep hearing) anyone to do LFR. Go on your marry way and do normals/heroics. Casuals had a chance before of experiencing Normal and heroic content (Which are different from LFR).

    Who would give them a chance to run it now?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Prag View Post
    Not really, I think they're just testing how casual we really are. I personally don't care when things are released, it's all I have the time/energy to do and if I do it 6 months after the normal/heroic guys, so be it. If you're not so casual as to demand immediate access, then you should be fine to run normal stuff even via pugs.
    Agreed. I know I'll take at least a month to get my characters leveled and geared (I really need less working hours), so when LFR is made available is very much a moot point. So hooray for those changes.
    Faithful worshiper of Huehuetzilopochtli.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Arkrus View Post
    Its Gimping because even in the next raid if the gear is still less than the previous raid's heroic how would it allow someone to move from doing normals and then to HC?

    Now, before LFR people would have to hope to find guilds or wait around for 4 hours for someone to start an old content raid and if it was near the end of an expansion forget it just wait it out and try to catch up in the next expansion.

    LFR (pre changes) would have allowed people to move from finishing a character (getting to 90) near the 3rd raid of an expansion and have them be "somewhat" geared

    Now the gear will be so lame in LFR guilds wont want to run with the casuals at all.

    Its all about progression and if you cant match up progression then nobody wants to raid with you.

    The system was there to cater to the casuals, fine. But because guilds felt that it was easier to start their progression with LFR and move up they did so and people started to complain.

    Bottom line, things arent changing because LFR didnt work at all. It worked perfectly.

    Nobody "Forced"(Like I keep hearing) anyone to do LFR. Go on your marry way and do normals/heroics. Casuals had a chance before of experiencing Normal and heroic content (Which are different from LFR).

    Who would give them a chance to run it now?

    I kind of see what you mean, but we will have to see how it is.

    The thing is, the Group of people that this is targeted for is a very small portion of the raiding community. Also, they only raided LFR for a couple of weeks for the character that they wanted geared for progression.

    They still ran with newly leveled alts, recruits, etc. Sometimes, even for fun!


    This doesnt prevent them from running LFR. This just gives them less incentive to do so as part of a progression path.

    If they were to share lockout between LFR and normal/heroic, I could see it lowering the overall quality of LFR raiders,(very slightly I think) but this isn't about forcing them out of LFR, its about not encouraging them to do it.

    Also, with how progression is designed now (no more atunements that require you to go back into the previous tier of raids) I've seen guilds more than willing to 'accept' potentially competent raiders through alt runs/trial runs in preparation for the next tier, even if they dont have the gear.

    If you want to catch up so you can raid with a more formal group (that runs normal/heroics) LFR is still going to be the best place to do so.


    And lets face it, the difference in iLvl isnt going to be huge. In terms of DS, its only going to be loots off 2 bosses, whos ilvl is being lowered by a miniscule amount. You get a weapon, trink, and possibly an armor piece off the 2 bosses at the moment, and if that were lowered, its only going to drop your average ilvl by 1.


    LFR is a brand new thing. Things are going to change, and in this case, you lose very little, but you still get to keep LFR for what it is supposed to be.
    Last edited by BLSTMASTER; 2012-08-23 at 09:02 PM.

  14. #14
    The Lightbringer Sesto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    3,854
    Honestly, the changes don't matter to me.

    LFR for me is all about experiencing the content. I don't care about the gear it offers, it is only a bonus.

  15. #15
    The Lightbringer Grym's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Somewhere in UK where there is chicken
    Posts
    3,131
    Quote Originally Posted by Arkrus View Post
    Its Gimping because even in the next raid if the gear is still less than the previous raid's heroic how would it allow someone to move from doing normals and then to HC?

    LFR (pre changes) would have allowed people to move from finishing a character (getting to 90) near the 3rd raid of an expansion and have them be "somewhat" geared

    Now the gear will be so lame in LFR guilds wont want to run with the casuals at all.
    I didn't thought there were much change?

    The 2nd tier LFR loot, is going to be better than 1st tier's normal gear, but weaker than 1st tier's HC gear.

    Currently in DS, LFR gear is better than normal FL gear, but worse than FL HC gear, so, ilvl wise, isn't it the same?

    I am trying to understand in your casual's point of view, what has changed.

  16. #16
    Moderator Azshira's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Cork, Ireland
    Posts
    2,891
    Quote Originally Posted by chadiu View Post
    Honestly, the changes don't matter to me.

    LFR for me is all about experiencing the content. I don't care about the gear it offers, it is only a bonus.
    Excellent attitude.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-23 at 11:20 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkrus View Post
    Its Gimping because even in the next raid if the gear is still less than the previous raid's heroic how would it allow someone to move from doing normals and then to HC?
    I still don't get how is it gimping. They are removing the ilvl of the end boss to bring it to the same as the rest of the raid. Then when you clear all the raids on LFR and the next content comes out, how is it gimping you if you do not do normal/hcs? Your gear will still progress. Let's say you have a bunch of 483 epics, the next raid (5.1) would give around ilvl 500, where is the gimping if you do not do heroics?

    LFR can gear up those who have extremely limited time per week and it does not gimp them in the slightest, they can also gear themselves via VP and professions that give epics/ buying them. They can also run world bosses if they are lucky, there are many ways to get extra gear and just because ilvl is lower than the previous raids heroic ilvl, so what? As I said already, it cannot possibly gimp you or any other LFR only people because their is still a gear progression.
    Proud Moderator of Raids and Dungeons.
    "You face not the Mod Hammer alone, but the infractions I command."

  17. #17
    It made no sense that 384 gear was better than 391 heroic Firelands gear in the first place (mostly due to gem sockets), so I'm actually glad they fix this.

    Of course we'll still be running them on first tier and to complete set bonuses, but in no way should heroic gear from previous tier be worst than LFR gear...

    I mean.. heroic Sulfuras was worse than LFR Gurthalak.. think about it for a minute. (Gurth = 390 iLvl, Sulfuras = 397 iLvl)
    Last edited by Spotnick; 2012-08-24 at 03:12 PM.
    Karuzo, mistweaver monk | Macphisto, discipline priest

  18. #18
    Moderator Azshira's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Cork, Ireland
    Posts
    2,891
    It did make no sense Spotnick I agree with you, it's a good change.
    Proud Moderator of Raids and Dungeons.
    "You face not the Mod Hammer alone, but the infractions I command."

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •