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  1. #281
    TG has been performing better for Aoe /cleave
    SMF has been performing better for single target.

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by Girana View Post
    Every sim I've ran has Carbonic Carbuncle and Relic of Xuen as our BiS trinkets.

  3. #283
    Why is priority to use BT after CS? Does't WS hit harder, making more sense to use BT before CS to free up that gcd for another WS?

  4. #284
    SMF vs TG at ~472 ilvl (463 weapons though)?

    How would you handle a cleave fight like Stone Guards, and does it depends on SMF/TG?

    I'm TG atm and I guess what I would do is replace the normal wild strikes with whirlwinds (even without glyph, though of course glyphing it would be a good idea I guess), and try to not go above 2x meat cleaver stacks, no more, no less. Thoughts?
    Last edited by Maxie; 2012-10-17 at 10:27 PM.

  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by Darmal View Post
    Why is priority to use BT after CS? Does't WS hit harder, making more sense to use BT before CS to free up that gcd for another WS?
    Because BT can proc Enrage, which means you also use an RB inside that CS window.

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaljurei View Post
    Because BT can proc Enrage, which means you also use an RB inside that CS window.
    BT would proc enrage outside of CS as well, still allowing RB

  7. #287
    Keyboard Turner
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    Basic but really noticable.. I know when I looked at the Arms one earlier I immediately spotted a really basic error that shows it was made using outdated beta info. hirewordpressdevelopers(dot)com

  8. #288
    I would like to know as well. My thinking is if you use BT during CS, you're using up 1.5secs of the 6 second debuff on CS.
    So the theory crafting behind it must say that the damage BT does out weights the 1.5sec GCD to use BT. So after BT is used you should have
    4.5secs left on the CS debuff. If you do BT before CS, then you would have the full 6 secs.

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by galvin View Post
    I would like to know as well. My thinking is if you use BT during CS, you're using up 1.5secs of the 6 second debuff on CS.
    So the theory crafting behind it must say that the damage BT does out weights the 1.5sec GCD to use BT. So after BT is used you should have
    4.5secs left on the CS debuff. If you do BT before CS, then you would have the full 6 secs.
    Except you still want to use BT on cd. No matter how you do it, you should fit a BT in the CS. There is no reason not to use BT during a CS, BT is simply too good, not necessarily in how much damage it deals, but the fact that it generates rage, has a high chance of enraging you and can procc RB makes it worth using on cd.

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxie View Post
    Except you still want to use BT on cd. No matter how you do it, you should fit a BT in the CS. There is no reason not to use BT during a CS, BT is simply too good, not necessarily in how much damage it deals, but the fact that it generates rage, has a high chance of enraging you and can procc RB makes it worth using on cd.
    Well maybe I was doing it wrong. Cause I would always delay CS till after BT, I simmed this out and showed a minor dps increase if I always did CS after BT. Sometimes I'll have CS come up in the middle of a BT CD. So if that happens then I would just delay CS till BT is up, then do BT then CS. After taking in GCDs you'll have 3secs left on the CS debuff before you use your RBs if you have any otherwise its wildstrike.

  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by galvin View Post
    Well maybe I was doing it wrong. Cause I would always delay CS till after BT, I simmed this out and showed a minor dps increase if I always did CS after BT. Sometimes I'll have CS come up in the middle of a BT CD. So if that happens then I would just delay CS till BT is up, then do BT then CS. After taking in GCDs you'll have 3secs left on the CS debuff before you use your RBs if you have any otherwise its wildstrike.
    Well if nothing proccs you always have BT... ^^


    Edit: SMF damage is sexy as fuck. Really wish I had an elegion or two though...

    Blade trap signet (463, crit/exp)vs the halloween ring (470, crit/**haste sorry)? I'm leaning towards Blade Trap, but not entirely certain, would appreciate some advice.

    Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ricatus/simple
    Last edited by Maxie; 2012-10-18 at 10:43 PM.

  12. #292
    Is there a "sweet spot" per se, of an acceptable time to delay your one minute cooldowns and/or heroic leap to ensure they exist inside of a CS window or while DMF trinket is up?

  13. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulrann View Post
    Is there a "sweet spot" per se, of an acceptable time to delay your one minute cooldowns and/or heroic leap to ensure they exist inside of a CS window or while DMF trinket is up?
    I almost always time my Bloodbath with Dragon Roar, CS and Deadly Calm if possible. Unless Bloodbath and DR have been unsynced for some reason.
    I cannot see using Bloodbath during a rage build up phase being a good idea. Your damage output while doing so is quite poor unless you're really lucky with proccs.

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by Darmal View Post
    BT would proc enrage outside of CS as well, still allowing RB
    BT has a double chance to proc Enrage, which means if you were already enraged due to the CS, then you wouldn't press BT again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxie View Post
    Well if nothing proccs you always have BT... ^^


    Edit: SMF damage is sexy as fuck. Really wish I had an elegion or two though...

    Blade trap signet (463, crit/exp)vs the halloween ring (470, crit/**haste sorry)? I'm leaning towards Blade Trap, but not entirely certain, would appreciate some advice.

    Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ricatus/simple
    Sim it. Personally I can see a few places where you can reforge to recover the lost Expertise, and get more Str and Crit as a result of equipping the ring.
    Last edited by Kaljurei; 2012-10-19 at 09:52 AM.

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaljurei View Post
    BT has a double chance to proc Enrage, which means if you were already enraged due to the CS, then you wouldn't press BT again.



    Sim it. Personally I can see a few places where you can reforge to recover the lost Expertise, and get more Str and Crit as a result of equipping the ring.
    I just got the horseman head, which is hit/crit instead of my old head which was crit/mastery, so I'm definitely going for the halloween ring now (though I'll keep the blade trap signet just in case).

    Sadly simulationcraft is simulationcrash on my computer (stops working the moment I start it...), I'll have to borrow a family member's computer for simming I guess, lol.

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaljurei View Post
    BT has a double chance to proc Enrage, which means if you were already enraged due to the CS, then you wouldn't press BT again.



    Sim it. Personally I can see a few places where you can reforge to recover the lost Expertise, and get more Str and Crit as a result of equipping the ring.
    If they is the case that makes sense. But as the priority is currently listed, you hit BT on cooldown, even if already enraged.

  17. #297
    Worth changing to a more cleave-ish rotation for a fight like the Stone Guards? WW and RB aren't that strong for SMF, so I'm uncertain of whether I should stick to single target or try to make some use of meat cleaver. Thoughts?

  18. #298
    i went arms just for stone guard hc, and im doing way more dmg than i did in fury sadly, duno if u would consider it, managed to do 187k and #2 on dmg after going arms for it

  19. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by gordonwu87 View Post
    i went arms just for stone guard hc, and im doing way more dmg than i did in fury sadly, duno if u would consider it, managed to do 187k and #2 on dmg after going arms for it
    I might do that if we get stuck on a cleave fight later on, but at the moment I'd rather just stick to one specc and I've decided on SMF fury, for now.

  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxie View Post
    Except you still want to use BT on cd. No matter how you do it, you should fit a BT in the CS. There is no reason not to use BT during a CS, BT is simply too good, not necessarily in how much damage it deals, but the fact that it generates rage, has a high chance of enraging you and can procc RB makes it worth using on cd.
    While this is true, a large portion of Blood Thirst is not affected by Colossus Smash (deep wounds component). The ideal way to use BT is right before CS because due to the way it works in MoP you can effectively fit in 4 GCDS before you stop ignoring armor. If you would use BT right after CS, you would use it again on the 6 second mark and thus have 2 BTs within the CS window. This is a dps loss.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-20 at 09:47 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxie View Post
    Worth changing to a more cleave-ish rotation for a fight like the Stone Guards? WW and RB aren't that strong for SMF, so I'm uncertain of whether I should stick to single target or try to make some use of meat cleaver. Thoughts?
    On a 2 target scenario you should apply the WW/RB combo even as SMF. When you reach the execute phase however you should swap to a single target.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-20 at 10:20 AM ----------

    BTW due to what I said in my previous post I don't believe the OP's rotation is optimal. Using BT->filler>CS will effectively have you hit BT again on the 6 second mark (which is still affected by CS). This is a dps loss.

    I also don't see why you would Raging Blow during the execute phase as Execute is more DPR.

    By now everyone also knows that Dragon Roar is weaker than Shockwave in every given situation in raids.

    And a last thing: "AOE" rotations are different for 2-3-4-5 and 8+ and 12+ targets. Each of these scenarios has a different approach. It's not as simple as shown in the OP I'm afraid.

    Even at 4 targets you should forget about AOE during the execute phase as SMF btw. Using a Shockwave is fine but all the rest should be BT/CS/execute on a single target as it's more dps.
    Last edited by Saevus.Reptile; 2012-10-20 at 11:34 AM.

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