Page 16 of 40 FirstFirst ...
6
14
15
16
17
18
26
... LastLast
  1. #301
    Good point about Deep Wounds, I didn't think about that.

    I assume I should simply replace normal wild strikes with whirlwinds, and try to make every RB have a Meat Cleaver stack when I use it?

    I didn't know that Shockwave was that good, I assume you try to squeeze it into every CS? And how would you prioritize it, relative to the other attacks?

  2. #302
    Execute (during colossus smash) > Blood Thirst > Execute > Whirlwind (0 meat cleaver stacks) > Raging Blow (2 stacks) > Colossus smash > Raging Blow 1 stack > Shockwave > Procced Wild Strike > Impending Victory > Battle Shout > Heroic Throw

    Could add normal wild strike after that but honestly unless you somehow have full rage and nothing to use I wouldn't bother. This is the priority list for a 2 target situation.

    To give you another example this is the same thing for a group of 4 mobs:

    Execute (during colossus smash) > Blood Thirst (when no RB stacks and enough rage OR when in execute phase) > Execute > Shockwave >Whirlwind (0, 1 or 2 meat cleaver stacks) > Raging Blow 2 stacks > Colossus smash > Raging Blow 1 stack > Shockwave > Thunder Clap > Procced Wild strike > Whirlwind> Cleave (Deadly calm) > Battle shout > Impending Victory > Heroic Throw

    At this point thunder clap is getting quite strong and whirlwind is actually more DPR than a non-procced ws. Effectly on multi-mob battles you never want to spend rage on unprocced wild strikes (unless 2 targets and max rage).

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-20 at 11:32 AM ----------

    The reason why colossus smash goes lower into the cycle is because ignoring armor on 1 mob out of X becomes less and less valuable. At 3 or 4 targets you pretty much want to focus on having an RB ready whenever your meat cleaver reaches the required amount. Colossus pretty much becomes a button you use when your blood thirst doesn't proc an RB when you really need it, with the extra of hitting ur main target harder for a while.

  3. #303
    3 shockwaves do the same amount of damage as 1 DR for me, and it costs 2 gcds more. How are you using your shockwave? In single target rotations that is.

  4. #304
    Quote Originally Posted by OscaR View Post
    3 shockwaves do the same amount of damage as 1 DR for me, and it costs 2 gcds more. How are you using your shockwave? In single target rotations that is.
    Inside or outside of Colossus smashes?

    Edit: and don't forget it can crit, is your 3 SW = 1 DR taking that into account? Of course, it does take globals still though.

  5. #305
    I assume you're counting 3 shockwave hits vs 1 DR crit.

    In this case DR might marginally do more DPS but it's a completely wrong way to compare the two.

    My character has around 25% crit. Taking this into account 3 shockwaves would be doing an average of 114000 damage. 1 Dragon Roar crit deals 71000 damage.

    Even ignoring the fact that shockwave gets a boost from these cooldowns while dragon roar doesn't the damage for 1 dragon roar using the above calculations would be 71000 damage 3 shockwaves do 114000 damage.

    So even though it comes more GCDS (or better said: needs to be delayed a bit sometimes). Shockwave will ALWAYS be a huge dps increase over Dragon's Roar unless it's a fight like Ragnaros was in firelands where you have a very short burst of aoe damage.

    Edit: Obviously when you get more crit (which happens to be our #1 stat) Dragon Roar will not benefit from these newly acquired stats. Shockwave however will pull ahead even further.

    The way you use shockwave? It's pretty much the 1st priority ability after BT>CS>Execute>RB(2stack)
    Last edited by Saevus.Reptile; 2012-10-20 at 02:40 PM.

  6. #306

    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by Saevus.Reptile View Post
    I assume you're counting 3 shockwave hits vs 1 DR crit.

    In this case DR might marginally do more DPS but it's a completely wrong way to compare the two.

    My character has around 25% crit. Taking this into account 3 shockwaves would be doing an average of 114000 damage. 1 Dragon Roar crit deals 71000 damage.

    Even ignoring the fact that shockwave gets a boost from these cooldowns while dragon roar doesn't the damage for 1 dragon roar using the above calculations would be 71000 damage 3 shockwaves do 114000 damage.

    So even though it comes more GCDS (or better said: needs to be delayed a bit sometimes). Shockwave will ALWAYS be a huge dps increase over Dragon's Roar unless it's a fight like Ragnaros was in firelands where you have a very short burst of aoe damage.

    Edit: Obviously when you get more crit (which happens to be our #1 stat) Dragon Roar will not benefit from these newly acquired stats. Shockwave however will pull ahead even further.

    The way you use shockwave? It's pretty much the 1st priority ability after BT>CS>Execute>RB(2stack)
    I time my DR with bloodbath though. Just another factor that can affect the DR vs SW discussion, I just thought id mention it.

  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by Saevus.Reptile View Post
    The way you use shockwave? It's pretty much the 1st priority ability after BT>CS>Execute>RB(2stack)
    Is this just for SMF (as shockwave should scale with the SMF 35% dmg bonus TG lacks)? And do you prioritize shockwave in the CS or prefer using WS over Shockwave during CS?

  8. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascar View Post
    Is this just for SMF (as shockwave should scale with the SMF 35% dmg bonus TG lacks)? And do you prioritize shockwave in the CS or prefer using WS over Shockwave during CS?
    Yes, all my statements are 100% accurate for SMF. I cannot fully guarantee the same counts for TG.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-20 at 03:32 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxie View Post
    I time my DR with bloodbath though. Just another factor that can affect the DR vs SW discussion, I just thought id mention it.
    It's of course worth mentioning but using the same reasoning bloodbath should work 1/3rd as good on shockwave (thus 10% extra overall damage) while it gives 30% to dragon roar.

    This brings the score to:

    Shockwave: 125400

    Dragon Roar: 92300

    Still not even close and we're not even considering the extra benefits from Colossus smash and recklessness.

  9. #309
    Hey guys, I did not play in Cata, so I'm new to SimCraft. I have 2 questions:
    1)Is there something similar to Landsouls' spreadsheet nowadays?
    2)If there isn't, are those stat weights possible? Cuz i fthink I am doing something wrong
    str 2.67
    crit 1.87
    exp 2.3
    haste 0.51
    mastery 0.87
    hit 2.9 (!)
    My armory eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/азурегос/Донт/simple (I can't post links)

  10. #310
    okay, let's do some math here:

    Dragon Roar does 126 + AP *1,4 damage, always crits and bypasses armor. 1 minute cd

    Shockwave does 75/100 * AP damage, scales with crit and does not bypass armor. 20sec cd.

    I think we can safely assume WS and RB are always to priorize over Shockwave during CS, if rage is sufficient. So you want to use shockwave always outside of CS debuff. Dragon Roar is obviously never used during CS, as it bypasses armor by itself.

    Let's do 3 different scenarios, low crit & low ap vs high crit & high ap to see the scaling.

    1st: 20.000 AP and 25% crit.
    DR: 28126 damage * 2 for crit => 56.252 damage
    SW: 15000 damage + 25% crit => 18.750 damage, * 3 as it can be used three times as much => 56.250 damage.

    Even considering 25% crit DR and SW do the same amount of damage, but SW does not ignore armor.

    2nd scneario: 40.000 ap and 25% crit
    DR: 56.126 damage * 2 for crit => 112.252 damage
    SW: 30.000 damage + 25% crit => 37.500 damage * 3 => 112.500 damage

    this shows, that the ap scaling of the 2 abilities stays the same.

    3nd sencario: 40.000 ap and 40% crit.
    DR: 56.126 damage * 2 for crit => 112.252 damage
    SW: 30.000 damage + 40% crit => 42.000 damage * 3 => 126.000 damage

    As we saw in the 2nd scenario the ap scaling remains the same, but SW scales with crit while DS doesn't therefor it pulls ahead at 40% crit in the 3rd scenario.

    Still SW does not ignore armor, while DR does. I'm not quite sure about the dmg reduce through armor, but i think it's somewhere about 25%.
    Considering the 25% armor reduce on SW, you would need about 70% crit for SW beeing on par with DS.

    If you now take into account, that SW needs 2 extra GCD's and DS can be easily paired with more damage increasing abilities while just every 3rd SW can, DS is clearly the better choice. (e.g. every DS can be used with engineering glove enchant, DS will never be used outside an enrage, DS always profits from Skull Banner, DS boosts Bloodbath more than SW, and so on).

    edit: PS: you can safely ignore any % damage increase that effects both abilities at all time, it doesn't change the calculation.

    edit2:
    Quote Originally Posted by Saevus.Reptile View Post
    By now everyone also knows that Dragon Roar is weaker than Shockwave in every given situation in raids.
    Can you give any source for that statement? Sounds like you read it somewhere and it's common knowledge among theorycrafters. I have to miss some major point in my calculation, if that's true. So a source would be highly appreciated.
    Last edited by Ascar; 2012-10-20 at 10:44 PM.

  11. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by nyjl View Post
    Hey guys, I did not play in Cata, so I'm new to SimCraft. I have 2 questions:
    1)Is there something similar to Landsouls' spreadsheet nowadays?
    2)If there isn't, are those stat weights possible? Cuz i fthink I am doing something wrong
    str 2.67
    crit 1.87
    exp 2.3
    haste 0.51
    mastery 0.87
    hit 2.9 (!)
    My armory eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/азурегос/Донт/simple (I can't post links)
    I just quickly simmed my stat weights and I got:

    Hit: 3,33
    Exp: 2,93
    Str: 2,80
    Crit: 1,92
    Mastery: 0,97
    Haste: 0,66

    This is as SMF with DR and BB as talents, ~473 ilvl.

    Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ricatus/simple

    So it doesn't seem that unbelievable, unless I have done something wrong too. Granted, I was lazy and only did 1k iterations since I was on a family member's crappy computer, heh.

  12. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by LordKefka06 View Post
    Shouldn't you also calculate the rage that the 2 Shockwave GCDs save you, so you can pool those into 2 Heroics Strikes in a CS window?
    I have a decent amount of empty GCD:s as is, I don't think you "save" very much rage, though of course it's great to have another free attack for CS:s in case you didn't manage to pool at lot of rage.

  13. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by LordKefka06 View Post
    Shouldn't you also calculate the rage that the 2 Shockwave GCDs save you, so you can pool those into 2 Heroics Strikes in a CS window?
    interressting point, but i think it's safe to say that having an ability doing same or more dmg in less time(gcd's) is always a dps gain, as just doing nothing during these 2 gcd's shockwave would need is still no dps loss simply because you do not generate more rage by using shockwave, you just free up gcd's. You can only gain dps by having more gcd's, but never lose dps as you would rather sit out a gcd than losing dps by using it.
    Please correct me, if i'm wrong here.


    It's interresting for the exact opposite situation. What if a WS without CS debuff hit's harder than a HS does with CS debuff? Then you would actually gain extra dps with these 2 gcd's, while doing less HS during CS. (Obviously having more free gcd's in situations with "too much" rage is a dps gain. so let's forget about that one for now.)

    This needs to be calculated for each equip and there should be different results, espacially because HS uses mainhand damage and WS uses offhand damage. So there is a right anwser for your current gear, but not in general. (also interresting because Whirlwind can be better than WS in general, if you have a really strong mainhand and a crappy offhand, like dungeon hc offhand and heroic 502 mainhand)

    One thing for sure: If WS(or whirlwind) does more damage outside of CS than heroic strike does during CS, the 2 extra gcd's are even more in favor for DR and you would use just less HS during the CS debuff. (for the deadly calm cd you would've to compare damage per rage)

    Btw that's also a point the initial post doesn't mention. Pooling rage for HS during CS is just a dps gain, if you have to use HS anyway at some point to avoid rage capping or HS does more damage in CS than WS(or WW) without CS debuff.

    I know we do most of the theory crafting with BIS gear, but actually you need theorycrafting the most during progression without having bis gear. As fury with a valueable attack that depends on the offhand this influences playstyle with different ilvl weapons in main and offhand, escpacially when ilvl gap between 2 weapons can be as huge as this tier (dungeon hc to heroic mogushan are 39ilvl).
    So treat general priorizations of WS/HS/WW usage always with caution.

    I could even imagine a dps gain by switching main/offhand for WS proccs with good swingtimer timing, and using all 3 between 2 BS. Perhabs someone is eager enough to calculate the ilvl gap the 2 weapons must have for this beeing a dps gain.
    Last edited by Ascar; 2012-10-20 at 10:39 PM.

  14. #314
    High Overlord
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    197
    Just reforged some gear on wowreforge and it prioritizes haste->mastery for SMF, is this true?

    Here is my armory in case it's related to gear -> http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...fella/advanced

    ty for answers.

  15. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by Cityfella View Post
    Just reforged some gear on wowreforge and it prioritizes haste->mastery for SMF, is this true?

    Here is my armory in case it's related to gear -> http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...fella/advanced

    ty for answers.
    Download Simcraft and sim it for yourself. I can't imagine haste being anything but dead last tbh.

  16. #316
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascar View Post
    I think we can safely assume WS and RB are always to priorize over Shockwave during CS, if rage is sufficient. So you want to use shockwave always outside of CS debuff. Dragon Roar is obviously never used during CS, as it bypasses armor by itself.
    I'm sorry but from an SMF point of view, why would you do this? Wild Strike does inferior damage to shockwave AND costs 10 or 30 rage. Raging Blow does MARGINALLY more damage than shockwave but costs 10 rage. The only thing you prioritise above shockwave during CS is Raging blow when it has 2 stacks. Seeing that shockwave has the same CD as colossus smash you will effectively ignore armor most of the times using it.

    3nd sencario: 40.000 ap and 40% crit.
    DR: 56.126 damage * 2 for crit => 112.252 damage
    SW: 30.000 damage + 40% crit => 42.000 damage * 3 => 126.000 damage

    As we saw in the 2nd scenario the ap scaling remains the same, but SW scales with crit while DS doesn't therefor it pulls ahead at 40% crit in the 3rd scenario.
    As shown above shockwave will in practically all situations ignore armor if you use it right. Yes, a wild strike will potentially not ignore armor this way but this is broadly made up for by the 10 or 30 rage saved by using shockwave instead (+ the fact that shockwave hits harder than WS anyhow).

    Shockwave also doesn't "need" 2 extra GCDS. As you're stating yourself very high crit (as in 50%) is not attainable atm so there will be plenty of empty GCDS you can fill with shockwave (you can even prepare for this as like I said you only want to prioritise a 2 stack RB over it OR a 1 stack RB if the next GCDS will be bloodthirst and colossus smash).

    Effectively this means that your shockwave will always OR replace a rage costing ability that does similar or less damage OR fill in an empty GCD. The only possible time you would delay shockwave is when you've got 2 RB stacks up exactly when it comes off CD (which is why you want your colossus smash window to be BT>CS>RB>SW>BT>RB. Keep your shockwave alligned with this combo and you will absolutely never have to delay it.

    If you now take into account, that SW needs 2 extra GCD's and DS can be easily paired with more damage increasing abilities while just every 3rd SW can, DS is clearly the better choice. (e.g. every DS can be used with engineering glove enchant, DS will never be used outside an enrage, DS always profits from Skull Banner, DS boosts Bloodbath more than SW, and so on).
    If you also take into account that our strongest cooldown which is pretty much always lined up with the other CDS (recklessness) actually does put shockwave way over 50% crit even in it's glyphed version this can easily compete with the things you've stated above

    I'll give it to you that the difference won't be big but if shockwave is used as it should be (the way I've just shown) it is going to save you rage, always ignore armor and benefit from our strongest cooldown.

    I don't know if I said this in an earlier post but I DO agree that dragon roar will be vastly superior in a scenario like ragnaros HC where you have a very short burst AOE moment.

    By the way how do you actually allign your dragon roar with cooldowns in order to always make sure you avoid losing an RB stack in some situations? Seeing that you don't want to delay your CDS I can imagine that using dragon roar at the start prior to BT>CS>... can cause issues later on, especially if you proc a ton of RBs right before the CS combo. Are you going to delay dragon's roar a whole 9 seconds (BT-CS-RB-RB-BT-RB-DR) when this happens?

    The fact that DR ignores armor on it's own doesn't always make it a favorable ability when it's lining up so well with cds that don't affect it.
    Last edited by Saevus.Reptile; 2012-10-21 at 12:23 PM.

  17. #317
    @Saevus.Reptile: Which final talent are you using together with SW? Or is it on a fight to fight basis? Would also like seeing your armory if that's okay.

  18. #318
    Quote Originally Posted by Saevus.Reptile View Post
    I'm sorry but from an SMF point of view, why would you do this? Wild Strike does inferior damage to shockwave AND costs 10 or 30 rage. Raging Blow does MARGINALLY more damage than shockwave but costs 10 rage. The only thing you prioritise above shockwave during CS is Raging blow when it has 2 stacks. Seeing that shockwave has the same CD as colossus smash you will effectively ignore armor most of the times using it.
    Well, shockwave hitting harder than wild strike is highly gear dependent, escpacially after the wild strike buff in the latest hotfix. (230% dmg + 1003)
    You can't judge from your gear to general. If you have bad weapons compared to the rest of your gear, you're right, if it's the other way round WS should hit harder.

    edit:
    checking the current simcraft results in bis gear, i really don't see where you take the general statement shockwave hits way harder than ws and just marginally less than RB. With the WS hotfix buff, ws should hit harder during CS than shockwave.
    But as stated above this is totally weapon <-> gear dependent. RB/WS scale with weapon dps, shockwave doesnt.
    editend;

    As shown above shockwave will in practically all situations ignore armor if you use it right. Yes, a wild strike will potentially not ignore armor this way but this is broadly made up for by the 10 or 30 rage saved by using shockwave instead (+ the fact that shockwave hits harder than WS anyhow).

    You do not save 10 or 30 rage by using shockwave in general, but i think what you mean is saving 10/30 rage during your CS debuff by using shockwave there.
    This will be a dps gain if your HS during CS hits harder than your WS without CS debuff and you can actually do an extra HS during CS with the rage you saved. (we always expect you pooled as much rage as possible without capping before CS). This won't be always true, e.g. you do CS with 1 RB stack, CS crits and the BT during CS crits too, then you would've gained nothing by saving rage with shockwave, as you should always have 150 rage during 1 CS debuff with a BT and CS crit.

    For the situation where you can do an additional HS in CS, you would have to calculate the following:
    Difference between HS w. CS and WS w/o CS.
    Difference between WS w. CS and WS w/o CS.
    Difference of these 2, is the damage gain or loss by saving rage with shockwave.

    In any situation you're not spending more rage during CS by using shockwave, it just makes absolutly no difference, as you do not save or generate any rage by using shockwave in general.

    As shockwave and Dragonroar damage is so close while shockwave is used with CS debuff, you have to take this difference in account and can't ignore it.

    Shockwave also doesn't "need" 2 extra GCDS. As you're stating yourself very high crit (as in 50%) is not attainable atm so there will be plenty of empty GCDS you can fill with shockwave
    Well, as i said having to spend more GCD's doesn't mean loosing dps in general, but using an ability that needs 1 GCD to do the same damage another does in 3 GCD's is never worse, but could be a dps gain in situations you can actually use the additional gcd's. (e.g. excessive rage gain through berserker stance or bloodlust/recklessnes burst phases)


    If you also take into account that our strongest cooldown which is pretty much always lined up with the other CDS (recklessness) actually does put shockwave way over 50% crit even in it's glyphed version this can easily compete with the things you've stated above
    Sorry, but how can one Shockwave in recklessnes can compare to the things i listed? All of them fully boost DR, while SW just to 1/3 (or even less in case of skullbanner) and are on a way shorter cooldown? Even with T14 setbonus (150 Sec Recklessnes cooldown) this will just effect every 7th shockwave at best. So with T14 bonus and unglyphed reck you can argue a 7% crit gain over the whole fight for shockwave and you shouldn't forget the excessive rage gain and RB proccs through BT always criting during reck. So you will probably have to delay an ability after reck for using sw as there are no free gcd's during reck.

    I'll give it to you that the difference won't be big but if shockwave is used as it should be (the way I've just shown) it is going to save you rage, always ignore armor and benefit from our strongest cooldown.
    As my calculation shows, the equilibrium of DR and Shockwave during CS without counting any cooldown lining benefits is around 25% crit for any given attackpower, while shockwave pulls ahead at more crit.
    So at the low crit state we are at the moment SW will never be a dps gain, while taking the better cooldown lining of DR into account. It can become a DPS gain with enough free GCD's at high enough crit rates. (40%+ if you have still enough free gcd's, but didn't calculate the actual benefit from lining dr with bloodbath, synapse springs, skullbanner and strength pot, where sw just beneifts 1/3 as much)


    By the way how do you actually allign your dragon roar with cooldowns in order to always make sure you avoid losing an RB stack in some situations? Seeing that you don't want to delay your CDS I can imagine that using dragon roar at the start prior to BT>CS>... can cause issues later on, especially if you proc a ton of RBs right before the CS combo.
    As we are not proccing more than 1 RB every 4,5 seconds before CS, we can always decide how many stacks of RB we have prior to BT->CS, so i think this has not much to do with when to use DR, but more with the question: Should i keep 1 RB stack before doing BT-> CS, and should i delay CS if BT proccs a 2nd one?

    Delaying the CS always means doing an additional BT during CS debuff which is a dps loss compared to RB/WS. I'm not sure if it's always worth pooling 1 stack of RB right before BT->CS, espacially as it gets worse with higher crit rates.
    Imho it's very hard to calculate if pooling 1 stack is a dps gain in general, as you have to take into account berserkers rage usage and possibilities & dmg differences of all different procc scenarios. On low critrates and better mainhand than offhand weapon pooling 1 rb stack should be always a dps gain imho, as chance of too much crits is minor and dmg difference between BR and WS is even greater.

    You could calculate, if it's worth risking CS with 2 stacks or delaying it by 1,5sec by comparing the damage difference of RB and BT with and w/o CS debuff. If the difference is greater than RB damage w/o CS debuff multiplied by your crit rating (use 0.x not 1.x!) it's worth risking to lose a rb stack.


    For DR you have 2 options:

    At the moment i prefer using DR directly after the CS debuff drops off, as we do not have any problems wasting resources at that point and are in rage/ressource build up phase for the next CS, so you would never have to use a HS instead of a WS for rage dump because of DR.

    Considering our short cooldowns bloodbath & skullbanner + synapse strings:

    BT + pop all off gcd cooldowns-> CS->RB->BT->RB->RB->BT->DR-> RB(or WS if procced at this point as just 1 rb stack) -> BT

    While at good latency this works, you can consider delaying BT 1 GCD for DR to make sure DR hits in bloodbath with skullbanner and synapse strings up. This is definitly worth the delay of BT, espacially as BT hits low, the possible RB/WS procc of it can't be used within the 30% bloodbath damage boost and a large portion of BT dmg (deep wounds) won't affect bloodbath.

    If you pooled 1 RB stack, you should not pop your cooldowns before you know you are not going to delay CS for an additional RB or you risk using DR without cds.

    Ohter possibility is the obvious one:

    pop all cooldowns -> DR -> BT -> CS .... worst case this could cause you to heroic strike instead of ws to avoid rage capping.
    Last edited by Ascar; 2012-10-21 at 03:23 PM.

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascar View Post
    Well, shockwave hitting harder than wild strike is highly gear dependent, escpacially after the wild strike buff in the latest hotfix. (230% dmg + 1003)
    You can't judge from your gear to general. If you have bad weapons compared to the rest of your gear, you're right, if it's the other way round WS should hit harder.
    Are you talking about TG here? Because unless you are, I really doubt upgrading my weapons is going to make up for the difference. Currently my shockwave hits 50% harder than my Wild Strike. Tested on live that is.

    You do not save 10 or 30 rage by using shockwave in general
    You do because if you end your colossus smash with rage to spare (even when using a maximum amount of heroic strikes) this rage doesn't become "lost". You can still use this rage to fill in later GCDs.

    This will be a dps gain if your HS during CS hits harder than your WS without CS debuff and you can actually do an extra HS during CS with the rage you saved. (we always expect you pooled as much rage as possible without capping before CS). This won't be always true, e.g. you do CS with 1 RB stack, CS crits and the BT during CS crits too, then you would've gained nothing by saving rage with shockwave, as you should always have 150 rage during 1 CS debuff with a BT and CS crit.
    Then you would've gained 10 rage to use outside of the CS as you don't stay at capped rage throughout it's cycle. And again, shockwave itself currently does similar damage to RB in my current gear. RB will indeed pull ahead when I get elegion axes, but WS is still going to stay behind.

    In any situation you're not spending more rage during CS by using shockwave, it just makes absolutly no difference, as you do not save or generate any rage by using shockwave in general.
    Again I might be mistaken but you somehow seem to believe that your rage bar automatically empties after your colossus smash rotation. If you save out 30 rage on a ws or 10 rage on an RB or procced WS by using shockwave during the CS window you will still be able to utilise this rage after the CS ends.

    The damage gain is [Shockwave with CS up + 1/3rd or 1 heroic strike with CS up or not up depending on how much rage you have - Wild strike with CS up]. Seeing that Shockwave on it's own is going to beat WS in all SMF setups currently available the partial or full heroic strike added to that is an extra increase in damage.

    So at the low crit state we are at the moment SW will never be a dps gain, while taking the better cooldown lining of DR into account. It can become a DPS gain with enough free GCD's at high enough crit rates. (40%+ if you have still enough free gcd's, but didn't calculate the actual benefit from lining dr with bloodbath, synapse springs, skullbanner and strength pot, where sw just beneifts 1/3 as much)
    I don't know but in half-decent raiding gear you'll already be at 25% or more buffed right now. Calculating in the fact that you'll be getting crit weapon procs, crit trinket procs and recklessness uptime I'd say that the average crit value is much closer to 30% than 25% right now. In BIS gear it's going to be even more.


    As we are not proccing more than 1 RB every 4,5 seconds before CS, we can always decide how many stacks of RB we have prior to BT->CS, so i think this has not much to do with when to use DR, but more with the question: Should i keep 1 RB stack before doing BT-> CS, and should i delay CS if BT proccs a 2nd one?
    And the answer to that question while sporting Shockwind is "no you should not keep an RB stack", as like I said Shockwave currently deals similar damage for SMF in the raiding gear that's currently available. In case of dragon roar you'll be gambling much more on what to do prior to a colossus smash, costing you damage in certain situations

    Thank you for explaining how to use DR though!

    .

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-21 at 03:24 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxie View Post
    @Saevus.Reptile: Which final talent are you using together with SW? Or is it on a fight to fight basis? Would also like seeing your armory if that's okay.
    So far I've been using Bloodbath in every situation. I've been working on the updated version on my SMF guide at the european warrior forums, you can find my armory and character there. (don't check the sticky as it's outdated, the new thread is a bit further down on the front page).
    Last edited by Saevus.Reptile; 2012-10-21 at 03:24 PM.

  20. #320
    I am kinda confused, SimCraft shows that the hit is main stat priority both in my gear, and bis, may be it is because i ran Patchwerk-like simulations?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •