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  1. #441
    Quote Originally Posted by Rustynip View Post
    I would say, at minimum, have two 463 weapons and 20-21% unbuffed crit.
    thanks for the reply! gonna have to work on my crit, only 17% unbuffed now

  2. #442
    High Overlord Roseby's Avatar
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    More crit means mastery is more heavily weighted.

    On an Orc with BiS weapons, wouldn't Shinka's pull even?

  3. #443
    Quote Originally Posted by Roseby View Post
    More crit means mastery is more heavily weighted.

    On an Orc with BiS weapons, wouldn't Shinka's pull even?
    I'm uncertain of how BiS gear looks with HoF and Terrace gear but currently some people are over the exp cap and can't get below it - and that is as SMF and without being orcs (or without using axes in main hand).

    Example: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ighty/advanced

    One observation I got from both Sinnermighty's as well as Landsoul's armories is the amount of hit above the soft cap (something Rustynip doesn't do, however). Which intrigues me a little. :P If anyone could shed some light on this matter, I'd appreciate it.

    I also noticed that everyone are using Double Time, I've been using Juggernaut all this time but I can certainly see the potential of Double Time. I'll have to try it out.

  4. #444
    Just testing ^^

    Hit > Mastery as sustained damage "should" be pulling higher on well obviously sustained fights is the theory over Mastery > Hit, but I still need to test it out as I just switched to SMF after getting Kilrak on Saturday.

    As for Expertise Cap, it's just the moment most warriors are in now with gear, it'll balance out eventually switching from Elegon axes, getting the Terrace bracers, terrace belt (maybe), tier helm etc. where you drop a lot of expertise and gives more wiggle room.
    Last edited by Sinnermighty; 2012-11-19 at 07:07 PM.

  5. #445
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinnermighty View Post
    Just testing ^^

    Hit > Mastery as sustained damage "should" be pulling higher on well obviously sustained fights is the theory over Mastery > Hit, but I still need to test it out as I just switched to SMF after getting Kilrak on Saturday.

    As for Expertise Cap, it's just the moment most warriors are in now with gear, it'll balance out eventually switching from Elegon axes, getting the Terrace bracers, terrace belt (maybe), tier helm etc. where you drop a lot of expertise and gives more wiggle room.
    Interesting, I can certainly see it being that way for SMF due to higher auto attack/heroic strike damage, etc. Come back here and drop a post or two when you've tested it out a bit more.

    I figured it might have been the limited MSV + Valor/crafted gear that put everyone so far above the expertise cap. Still, I doubt that 1% expertise will make any notable difference with regards to TG vs SMF. The gap is too large. I did notice that you were TG for a short while (stalk stalk), you had hc Starshatter + N Starshatter, if I remember correctly. Right now I'm stuck as TG with an N Sharshatter + lfr Starshatter, I do have an lfr Elegion in my bank though. Ugh, I want to go SMF so badly. I'd assume lfr Elegion + lfr Elegion/lfr Scimitar/ lfr Kil'rak would beat my current combo... the gap between TG and SMF is a tad too big >.>

  6. #446
    It was H Starshatter + LFR Starshatter, you don't stalk enough!

    J/k Yea I was really banking on getting that Normal kilrak drop as that would push it for me for SMF to be > TG (especially with a 500str gem heh).

  7. #447
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinnermighty View Post
    It was H Starshatter + LFR Starshatter, you don't stalk enough!

    J/k Yea I was really banking on getting that Normal kilrak drop as that would push it for me for SMF to be > TG (especially with a 500str gem heh).
    I have poor memory ): but yeah, I'm so jealous of that Kilrak that it's stupid. I dunno, I don't like that I have decent TG weapons and still feel desperate for one handers.

  8. #448
    Meanwhile, I still have blue two handers. :/
    Chapterhouse#1107
    Armory

  9. #449
    ... wat, you have two Heroic weapons for SMF, one of them BiS (for offhand once you get H Kilrak). How is that bad?
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemah View Post
    “When people talk about the good old days, I say to people, 'It's not the days that are old, it's you that's old.' I hate the good old days. What is important is that today is good.”
    ― Karl Lagerfeld
    FIRE GIVES ME BIGGER BLOOD SHIELDS

  10. #450
    High Overlord Roseby's Avatar
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    Sometimes you just gotta cleave bro...
    You just gotta cleave...

    On a more serious note though, I've got to ask what spreadsheets you guys use and if a link is possible.
    I use Requiel's DPS Spreadsheet, yet it conflicts with Esoterickk's BiS list on multiple pieces.

    I think one of the main problems is a static stat weight across TG and SMF, with SMF having more of an equivalency in value of Str + Crit, while TG has the minor lean towards crit.

    With the 5.1 Valor changes, I'm trying to upgrade long term pieces (i.e. BiS first). As such, I'd like to make the correct decision when I spend my GP in this EPGP system against 9 Protector's and 6 plate DPS.
    Last edited by Roseby; 2012-11-20 at 03:19 PM.

  11. #451
    There are two things I'd like to discuss a bit.

    The first is saving RB charges for your next CS. The downside of this is if you sit at 1 RB charge and you do BT-> CS and they both crit. In this situation, you'd lose 1 RB charge. Of course, if you have great reflexes you could do (at 1 RB charge) BT -> (crit, 2 charges) RB -> CS (delayed a little). Still, I'd like to hear your opinions about saving RB charges for your CS:es and if it's worth the risk.

    The second thing has to do with the RB vs Bloodsurged Wild Strikes priority. There are a few issues here for me. The first is that BS proccs from BT and as such if you BT with Bloodsurge up, you risk overwriting and wasting charges. The second is that the BS buff has a time that can expire.

    "Bloodsurge has a chance to proc from Bloodthirsts, so if a Bloodsurge procs and you have 0 or 1 Raging Blow stacks you will want to: BT -> WS -> WS -> WS -> BT -> RB -> RB (if you had 1 stack before) -> BT."

    and

    "If you come across a situation where you have 2 Raging Blows built up, and a Wildstrike procs this is how it would play out: BT -> RB -> WS -> WS -> WS -> BT (Delayed by 0.5s) -> RB -> RB (if another proc'd, if not then go to next priority)." - Sinnermighty in his guide at manaflask


    So basically it seems it's something like (in order of priority as a filler) RB (at 2 charges) > Bloodsurged Wild Strikes > RB (at 1 charge)?

    This differs a little from the guide in this thread, where RB is always prioritized higher than Bloodsurge, regardless of the number of charges (correct me if I have read wrong).

    A note about this, there was a time period earlier in MoP (can't remember if just after the pre release patch or after release as well) where BS couldn't procc if you already had it up, so it's possible that this was written with that in mind, and as such I don't know if this priority still holds true. I would love a comment regarding this.
    Last edited by Maxie; 2012-11-20 at 11:06 PM.

  12. #452
    485 ilvl gear, 489 elegion+blue off-hand or 489 starshatter + blue off-hand?

  13. #453
    Quote Originally Posted by nyjl View Post
    485 ilvl gear, 489 elegion+blue off-hand or 489 starshatter + blue off-hand?
    Similar Ilvl on weapons, of course SMF wins by a mile. Elegion.

  14. #454
    If I have few seconds(3-5 seconds) left in CS cd and I have 1 RB stack, should I save it for CS or just use it?

    Also, does any1 still know if its dps increase to go over soft hit cap as TG or is it only SMF stuff?
    Last edited by Yiris; 2012-11-21 at 10:58 PM.

  15. #455
    Mechagnome esoterickk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roseby View Post
    Sometimes you just gotta cleave bro...
    You just gotta cleave...

    On a more serious note though, I've got to ask what spreadsheets you guys use and if a link is possible.
    I use Requiel's DPS Spreadsheet, yet it conflicts with Esoterickk's BiS list on multiple pieces.

    I think one of the main problems is a static stat weight across TG and SMF, with SMF having more of an equivalency in value of Str + Crit, while TG has the minor lean towards crit.

    With the 5.1 Valor changes, I'm trying to upgrade long term pieces (i.e. BiS first). As such, I'd like to make the correct decision when I spend my GP in this EPGP system against 9 Protector's and 6 plate DPS.
    The main reason you'll see some conflicts is due to at an individual level, some pieces will be better itemized than others. However at a full gearset level some pieces gain/lose value due to requirements of hitting caps and optimal reforges.

    That being said, the BiS list I provided is based off the simcraft BiS profile.

    I'm normally hesitant to rely on simcraft for such decisions, but with it being one of the closest theorycrafting resources we have and BiS profiles leaving limited options when the stat weights are correct (which simcraft is correct in stat weights; coupled with the disparity between all secondary stats vs crit), it means there's very little room for error when calculating which set will provide the most desirable stats when put together. For the most part there's clear winners in each slot, however there are a few that are close (such as the ring) and they seem to be correct.

    I've seen reference to this in a few threads and hopefully this post will help clear it up; mainly in reference to choice on the ring.

    At an individual level, only with their base stats:

    Signet of the Bandit Lord (Galleon ring): http://www.wowhead.com/item=90438
    STR: 682
    CRIT: 345
    EXP: 518

    vs

    Ring of the Bladed Tempest (Bladelord ring): http://www.wowhead.com/item=86957
    STR: 769
    EXP: 402
    HASTE: 578

    Comparing these two alone and based off the statweights/calculations in his spreadsheet (STR 3.32 / CRIT 2.7):
    3972.74DPS vs 3745.64 DPS, the Galleon ring beating it by ~200DPS.

    However you'll notice the stats are taken without reforge, meaning the crit you get from taking out haste isn't calculated.

    Taking this into account, it now becomes:
    STR: 769
    EXP: 402
    HASTE: 347
    CRIT: 231

    Which pushes Ring of the Bladed Tempest to 4133.72 DPS reforged, beating out the Galleon ring's 3972.74 DPS when it already has the ideal Crit/Expertise combo.

    It's no fault that these results occur and his spreadsheet is a great tool which I use myself. It's just very difficult to take items on individual level and evaluate their worth without all the variables of your current gear, rating caps and reforges.
    Last edited by esoterickk; 2012-11-21 at 11:19 PM.

  16. #456
    Mechagnome esoterickk's Avatar
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    Mainly due to the Expertise cap, the other pieces provide plenty to that end, making the Endless Spring a better choice.

    And yeah, was a little lazy with videos lately, will have to start recording properly again

  17. #457
    Is there any cut off point for how low you want your haste to be, or is it OK for it to be <1%?
    Rabsies
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  18. #458
    Quote Originally Posted by Adsertif View Post
    Is there any cut off point for how low you want your haste to be, or is it OK for it to be <1%?
    As little as possible. Get rid of every point of that haste you possibly can.

  19. #459
    Alright, I was just hesitant since I replaced two pieces that had haste on them last night and now have .76%.
    Rabsies
    <The Horsemen> US25 - Shadowmoon US - 14/14 25H
    "Just play the game"
    _________________________________________
    CPU: i5 2500k @3.3Ghz; GPU: MSi GTX560Ti Twin Frozr II
    RAM: 8GB 1600Mhz Corsair Vengeance; MB: MSi Z68-G45 G3

  20. #460
    Scarab Lord Chonar's Avatar
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    I'm still not terribly certain about my reforging. Disregarding expertise perfection for now (seriously, does every piece hafta have expertise on it?) I'm well over the hitcap right now since I've been reforging my mastery and haste into hit if I couldn't reforge it into crit on that item instead.

    So my crit/mastery and crit/haste items all get reforged into crit/something/hit.

    The thing I'm uncertain about is, at this point, should I dumpstat Mastery instead? Or keep piling up hit just to be swimming in rage and get my white hits in? Or is that mindset firmly stuck in tier13?

    Titan's Grip btw.

    "Don't walk behind me; I may not lead. Don't walk in front of me; I may not follow. Just walk beside me and be my comrade." - Albert Camus

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