View Poll Results: Do you think Lance Armstrong should face trial for fraud?

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  • Yes

    53 48.18%
  • No

    57 51.82%
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  1. #41
    he may be guilty and if he is won't say a word probably because it would be a risk of showing the whole doping scene, how it works an who owns it.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by ganush View Post
    No. Outside observer who is amazed at the support this guy is getting and how blind people are to how he is playing them. This guy has an ego the size of North America and is sitting back laughing his ass off that he's still getting away with it all. The USADA has him dead to rights, and he's still managed to back them into a no win corner. If they present their evidence they'll look petty for doing so after he backed down, if they don't people will still think he's innocent because he never tested positive, if they file criminal charges then they public will just think the witch hunt is continuing and just leave the guy alone. He's a smart guy and he won even tho he lost.
    Seriously? If the USADA really DID have this iron-clad evidence - why will they NOT provide it to either Armstrong, or the UCI?

    There was a criminal investigation - check facts before posting - it was determined that there was insufficient evidence for it to proceed. You'd think with this great 'proof' that USADA had, it would have gone ahead.

    I'm neither blind, nor am I being played. I'm one of the many interested parties who have watched how the USADA has operated in the past 9 years. If they were an actual court - you Americans would be screaming corruption - because that's how they operate. Willingly 'overlooking' positive tests in order to gain 'testimony' against a 'bigger' target. It's all out there if you care to investigate!

    Cheers to the UCI for not bowing and kowtowing to the USADA

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by ganush View Post
    No. Outside observer who is amazed at the support this guy is getting and how blind people are to how he is playing them. This guy has an ego the size of North America and is sitting back laughing his ass off that he's still getting away with it all. The USADA has him dead to rights, and he's still managed to back them into a no win corner. If they present their evidence they'll look petty for doing so after he backed down, if they don't people will still think he's innocent because he never tested positive, if they file criminal charges then they public will just think the witch hunt is continuing and just leave the guy alone. He's a smart guy and he won even tho he lost.
    And obviously you can't be wrong, or not have all the facts, or even have a slightly biased opinion.

    Here's what I (apparently misguidedly) see... An agency head taking every opportunity to get his name and quotes in the press (his reply today was minutes after Armstrong declaring him 100% guilty), and over-stepping his bounds to the point of offending other world agency's. An agency that is (from what I have read) is using one sample (there always is an A & B sample per test) from more then 8 years ago (8 years is their *own* guideline on testing) to make claims against a case that is more then 17 years old (from when it started, again there is supposed to be an 8 year max. similar to legal cases due to testing and peoples memories). Add to the fact their witnesses are the likes of John Landis (a confirmed and pissed off cheater) and/or other riders who are still racing even tho' may or may not have had tested for drugs also.

    One cannot deny it can be read many ways, myself even I'm not 100% sure he did not use, but they USADA is no saint and IMO they do not have any concrete proof in this. IMO They are just jockeying for position atop the world of testing and are willing to throw anyone under the buss to get there.

  4. #44
    Epic! Zatheyll's Avatar
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    Lance just got all his titles and awards taken away from him today.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012...tour-de-france

    Pathetic how a thing like this happens. At least Lance can go on living his life without this witch hunt hounding his every move making his life miserable.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Knew It View Post
    If they all cheat, is it really cheating? The playing field would be even..
    No if they all cheat the best chemist wins. Which does not mean Armstrong was or was not cheating, what do i know.

  6. #46
    The Lightbringer eriseis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zatheyll View Post
    Lance just got all his titles and awards taken away from him today.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012...tour-de-france

    Pathetic how a thing like this happens. At least Lance can go on living his life without this witch hunt hounding his every move making his life miserable.
    He makes life miserable enough for people.
    Quote Originally Posted by Espe View Post
    God, Guns, Gays and Gynecology - the Republican 4G Network.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    He's obviously guilty, if he wasn't he would fight the doping charges.
    Yeah - that's why all poor people are guilty, because they don't lawyer up and fight in court.

    Face it - court is all about truth by trial of combat, and Mr Armstrong decided not to play the game.

  8. #48
    Epic! Zatheyll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eriseis View Post
    He makes life miserable enough for people.
    I guess helping cancer patients makes their lives miserable.

    Face it, unless he has directly affected your life in a horrible way you have no right to say that.

  9. #49
    The cycling sport is the biggest doping joke in sports history, worse than DDR, every single year there are tons of positive tests in the top of the sport.
    Noone can seriously defend anything about the pro circuit of that "sport".
    Quote Originally Posted by TooMuch View Post
    Like said before, I am in Boston this week and if you are the big man you claim to be, come visit me. I'll PM you the hotel and room number. Let's see if you are such a hero in real life too, like you claim to be.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Zatheyll View Post
    Lance just got all his titles and awards taken away from him today.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012...tour-de-france

    Pathetic how a thing like this happens. At least Lance can go on living his life without this witch hunt hounding his every move making his life miserable.
    Try reading the article again. He hasn't been striped of anything. The USADA doesn't have the authority to strip him of his TDF wins.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by zaheer12a View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/24/sp...titles.html?hp

    What is your opinion on this? Do you agree with the USADA? Should the Tour de France victories and prize money be stripped?

    In my own opinion, I don't think this should be done. He has done all the doping tests and all of them were negative. Some of them are still available for testing and so far, no positive tests have been found. In my book, that means he's clean. But you know what they say, you're not a cheater unless you're caught. But they also say, innocent until proven guilty. And being Americans, who are supposed to be proud of that last sentence, ironically, they keep pushing and pushing after all those negative tests. It's a shame to be honest. Let the UCI decide, they are the governing body of the sport.
    I think this is more of a personal thing for him as an athlete. the way people view lance armstrong won't change, after the million of dollars he's help fund for cancer research, and the icon he's become is just too strong to have any real effect on his legacy

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by ptwonline View Post
    He was already a rider at an elite level. Just not at the very peak. And certainly not dominating.

    And the weight claim is actually a myth. Yes, he lost weight from his chemo but his doctors said that 8 months later he was back to his previous weight.

    Having done some distance cycling myself, I know that a lot of it is mental discipline. Perhaps his cancer helped him focus more but he would have had to be very focused (and pain tolerant) already just to make it to that level to begin with. But it is also largely physical, and the disadvantage he would have been at if the others doped and he didn't makes it very, very difficult to believe.
    As far as the weight thing, 8 months after chemo, if he was exercising differently than he was prior to the treatments, and most likely eating much healthier, it is more likely that the weight was muscle instead of fat as it was prior to the treatments. More muscle helps with cycling.

    Let alone, how could he challenge the evidence against him when he was not allowed to see the evidence and neither were his lawyers?
    Last edited by Flatspriest; 2012-08-24 at 10:14 PM.
    when all else fails, read the STICKIES.

  13. #53
    The Lightbringer eriseis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zatheyll View Post
    I guess helping cancer patients makes their lives miserable.

    Face it, unless he has directly affected your life in a horrible way you have no right to say that.
    That doesn't give him the freedom to treat people like crap.

    I know people who are researching cures for cancer. They are not assholes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Espe View Post
    God, Guns, Gays and Gynecology - the Republican 4G Network.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Bakis View Post
    The cycling sport is the biggest doping joke in sports history, worse than DDR, every single year there are tons of positive tests in the top of the sport.
    Noone can seriously defend anything about the pro circuit of that "sport".
    ok even if he did, he was competing on an equal playing field, that's the joke tbh. he won 7. period.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaheer12a View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/24/sp...titles.html?hp

    What is your opinion on this? Do you agree with the USADA? Should the Tour de France victories and prize money be stripped?

    In my own opinion, I don't think this should be done. He has done all the doping tests and all of them were negative. Some of them are still available for testing and so far, no positive tests have been found. In my book, that means he's clean. But you know what they say, you're not a cheater unless you're caught. But they also say, innocent until proven guilty. And being Americans, who are supposed to be proud of that last sentence, ironically, they keep pushing and pushing after all those negative tests. It's a shame to be honest. Let the UCI decide, they are the governing body of the sport.
    Of course they continue to push, cause someone(maybe more than one) on the governing body has a cob up their ass over Armstrong's success, either that, or they prefer to belive the backstabbers and troublemakers over their own certified clean tests.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-24 at 05:18 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by icedwarrior View Post
    Exactly what I'm thinking. From what little I skimmed over, it sounds like he's completely giving up, which would mean that he loses all medals / wins, which to me, signals that he's guilty. Why else would you give up? This tarnishes your *entire* career, and everything you've worked for. I couldn't imagine giving up, although I can definitely see how daunting it would be to fight this for this long.
    You say you dont understand... let me put it in simple terms so that you can understand (no I'm not trying to be snarky)... Assume for a moment, your significant other (in this case the governing body). Started punching you in the face, repeatedly, then stopped, then started again... and it became a pattern... for years... at what point do you just say 'Fuck it' and walk away?

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  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    He's obviously guilty, if he wasn't he would fight the doping charges.
    "Armstrong, who turns 41 next month, said he would not contest the charges because it had taken too much of a toll on his family and his work for his cancer foundation, saying he was “finished with this nonsense.”"

  17. #57
    The Lightbringer Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    He's obviously guilty, if he wasn't he would fight the doping charges.
    Muto, let me try it in simple terms for you. When did you stop smoking crack? if you say you never smoked it I'd say prove it.

    its really that simple... he's tired of defending against the witch hunt
    Last edited by Seranthor; 2012-08-24 at 10:35 PM.

    --- Want any of my Constitutional rights?, ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Fathme View Post
    ok even if he did, he was competing on an equal playing field, that's the joke tbh. he won 7. period.
    If anything his scientist compete against the other clyclists scientists
    Last edited by Bakis; 2012-08-24 at 10:23 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by TooMuch View Post
    Like said before, I am in Boston this week and if you are the big man you claim to be, come visit me. I'll PM you the hotel and room number. Let's see if you are such a hero in real life too, like you claim to be.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Zatheyll View Post
    It only tarnishes your career if you care that much what people think about you. Would you really spend the rest of your life defending yourself just over a few titles and what others think of you? Or would you give up the headache and go on living your life? What matters is that YOU are the one that won, and you know it no matter what everyone else thinks.

    If I was in his shoes I would have done the same thing. A few titles mean little to me, even if I spent most of my life on them, if it means I can't fully enjoy the rest of my life. He said he would rather devote his time on helping cancer patients then fighting in court over some medals, so good on him.

    Also, if you read the article it states that he knows he is not guilty, the countless drug tests proved he is not guilty, and he is tired of what he calls an "unconstitutional witch-hunt".

    It's sad how a thing like this happens when there are probably far worse cases this "agency" should be working on.
    The titles might not mean much to you but having to pay back 500.000 $ orso per tour de France he won might (especialy as this money is usually distributed among the team with the actual winner not taking a share or only taking a 10% cut like the rest) and that's just for wearing the yellow jersey in Paris, any stage wins etc.. are not included.

  20. #60
    Elemental Lord Kalis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fathme View Post
    ok even if he did, he was competing on an equal playing field, that's the joke tbh. he won 7. period.
    No, if he cheated then he didn't win, and whether or not other people cheated is irrelevant.

    This case is a bit odd though - it appears that they know he did it, but can't prove it through their tests. They should have given it to the Met, when they get criminals who they know committed a crime but can't prove it, they just fit them up for some other crime.

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