View Poll Results: Do you think Lance Armstrong should face trial for fraud?

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  • Yes

    53 48.18%
  • No

    57 51.82%
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  1. #261
    I just wonder how much money he got for saying it with opera , because else there's noway he would admit it.
    I'm no rockstar .., i'm a fucking legend!!

  2. #262
    Moderator Northern Goblin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by External View Post
    I just wonder how much money he got for saying it with opera , because else there's noway he would admit it.
    I know this was a typo. But I'd honestly not be surprised if Lance Armstrong: The Great Deception became an opera. The guy seems set to maximise his income off this, because he'll need it for the coming lawsuits.

  3. #263
    Titan Wildtree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolson13 View Post
    His sincerity in the interview was minimal

    In regards to Betsy Andreu he said: "I called you a bitch, I called you ugly, I called you ....., but I never called you fat. How can you say I called you fat, it's unbelievable".
    How about saying sorry for calling her the other things in stead of putting yourself in the victim role once again.

    The guy will never learn. Decietfull as always.
    Well, he got this for it...... I was laughing so hard last night, when I saw it.
    From last nights Jimmy Fallon's Late Night Show:


    ---------- Post added 2013-01-19 at 07:45 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by External View Post
    I just wonder how much money he got for saying it with opera , because else there's noway he would admit it.
    Oprah... Opera is something else

    And, likely he ain't got anything for it. She's the most powerful woman in entertainment business, and an American Icon. Highly influential. It's rather an attempt of him saving his ass by coming forth with a confession. And likely it would have even worked if there wasn't some more to it:
    1. He didn't only lie and deny all the time. He turned it around and accused, threatened, harassed others - who have been honest enough - over it.
    2. He completely blew a fairly large community of fans off. So many people believed in him, believed that he was rather a victim, yet they were all wrong.
    3. He still kept dodging, and bending the truth in the interview. It wasn't a full confession.
    4. He took the cake of all doping cases ever. America takes a lot of pride in it's sports achievements. Yet Armstrong's case is of such a huge magnitude, that it will, and does trickle into the reputation of the US sport as a whole. Any extraordinary athlete from the USA will - at least for quite some time now - have to live with the World watching, raising their eye brows and suspecting foul play...
    Apparently, it's not only the former USSR, or China, it's also the great USA who cannot play by the rules.
    Cycling is huge in the World. Bigger than it is in the USA. Armstrong's actions have a huge negative impact against the USA's sport reputation as a whole.
    It'll take quite some time until that fades away.

  4. #264
    I don't get all the fuss. So what he cheated, multiple times, one thing about cycling, there isn't one clean person out there.

    Another thing, USADA/WADA spent billions to perfect their doping searching, yet they still can't do it properly, so where did that money go?

    There's millions of people starving each day, millions of people getting shot every week, millions of kids used for prositution, millions of people getting surpressed by their goverments. Yet people seem to care more about 1 person getting caught for doping, something all sporting federations are equally as responsible for. No wonder humanity will come to an end in a few centuries.

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerfiend View Post
    If he goes to prison, then Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa, Jose Canseco... and numerous other roid users should as well. I think prison, for roiding a sport, is mind boggling. Why would you even go there?
    Because they earn money for doing illegal stuff, what's not to get...not to forget they are setting an example for the new generation. If they get away with it than what message do you send to kids or just other people in general.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Palmatum View Post
    Hopefully he's forced to pay back his winnings and sponsorship. Would be nice if he's sued for fraud.
    Won't happen, his sponsors are directly involved with lying aswell, yet they knew. So they'll be paying enough to settle this outside of the public view.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-19 at 07:47 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarac View Post
    Because they earn money for doing illegal stuff, what's not to get...not to forget they are setting an example for the new generation. If they get away with it than what message do you send to kids or just other people in general.
    This kind of stuff happens a lot though, and this isn't even bad compared to the rest of these events that occur at different places with different people.

  7. #267
    Pandaren Monk Slummish's Avatar
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    Anyone voting NO is clearly unaware of the financial impact Armstrong's drug use has had on numerous individuals. He has successfully sued people and firms for effectively telling the truth. He has cost other athletes lucrative endorsement deals and trophies and winnings.

    Personally, I think all athletes should use drugs. When all is said and done, an athlete is just a glorified rodeo clown. They're both out there for our amusement and entertainment. They might as well be juiced out of their heads so the paying public can get a great show.

    But, Armstrong took it too far by destroying so many other potential careers.

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by Hikashuri View Post
    Won't happen, his sponsors are directly involved with lying aswell, yet they knew. So they'll be paying enough to settle this outside of the public view.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-19 at 07:47 PM ----------



    This kind of stuff happens a lot though, and this isn't even bad compared to the rest of these events that occur at different places with different people.
    Just because worse shit happens in the world doesn't make it less of a crime. It's like releasing all robbers in the world because murderers are worse.

    A crime is a crime, and what these guys in the big leagues are doing is off the same magnitude as dealing drugs as they make just as much if not more profit in a public way from drugs/doping or whatever tag you wanna put on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slummish View Post
    Anyone voting NO is clearly unaware of the financial impact Armstrong's drug use has had on numerous individuals. He has successfully sued people and firms for effectively telling the truth. He has cost other athletes lucrative endorsement deals and trophies and winnings.

    Personally, I think all athletes should use drugs. When all is said and done, an athlete is just a glorified rodeo clown. They're both out there for our amusement and entertainment. They might as well be juiced out of their heads so the paying public can get a great show.

    But, Armstrong took it too far by destroying so many other potential careers.
    The thing is, you don't wanna encourage it...so the only way I could see your thing work if there was a different league for people using drugs so people staying clean can do so without having to fall behind in the sport.

    But isn't it sad we are even discussing something like this?
    Last edited by Sarac; 2013-01-19 at 06:53 PM.

  9. #269
    High Overlord Dermot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarac View Post
    A crime is a crime, and what these guys in the big leagues are doing is off the same magnitude as dealing drugs as they make just as much if not more profit in a public way from drugs/doping or whatever tag you wanna put on it....
    Justice systems favour the rich and powerful, that's why the punishments for such crimes are much less severe than if you were to rob a bank, for example.

  10. #270
    Moderator Northern Goblin's Avatar
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    We had this discussion during the Olympics. Opening up free reign on substance abuse is just going to lead to deaths, look at most wrestlers from the 80s and early 90s.

  11. #271
    Warchief tommypilgrim's Avatar
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    This isn't just about the fact he doped. Sure, pretty much all of them were doing it. The difference is the scale of Lance's doping, the professional nature of the operation. He took it to another level, and was a major factor in the entire culture of the sport. Yes, the sport as a whole was corrupt, but a lot of that was down to him.

    Beyond that you have the aggressive, almost ruthless tactics he used to conceal his fraud. Other guys may have doped, however none of them went to the lengths Armstrong did to protect themselves. Ullrich tested positive, but he did not intimidate those who wanted to speak the truth. He did not sue newspapers knowing full well he was a liar. Armstrong took this beyond simple doping. Drugs cheats have been found out and forgiven before, it is the things he did beyond shoving a needle in his ass that makes this so abhorrent.

    Anybody who knows anything beyond "hurr, it's cycling, they all did it" should be able to explain exactly why he deserves his life ban. The fact that everybody was doing it is a shit excuse, aside from that he showed 0 remorse whatsoever. Even after USADA released their evidence Lance persisted in maintaining his innocence, and as this thread shows PEOPLE STILL BELIEVED HIM. He was completely unwilling to do anything to correct the wrongs he did, and this interview revealed just how remorseless them man is. To blame cancer for turning him into a bully is pathetic. To be completely uncontrite about his actions, to smirk his way through the interview gives us the measure of the man. He is a thoroughly unlikeable human being, despite how much he may have raised for cancer awareness (we're all pretty aware of cancer anyway), to dismiss this as simply "oh well, they were all at it" is ignorant and quite unjustified.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-19 at 10:19 PM ----------

    So, let's see where I was right.

    Quote Originally Posted by tommypilgrim View Post
    Doubtless he will talk about how he "made a mistake"
    Lance: "I don't want to accuse anybody else. I don't want to talk about anybody else. I made my decisions. They are my mistakes, and I am sitting here today to acknowledge that and to say I'm sorry for that. The culture was what it was."

    and possibly even talk about seeking counselling in order to try and get popular opinion back on his side.
    Oprah:You mentioned therapy earlier, are you doing therapy?

    Lance: "Yeah. Over the course of my life, I've done it sporadically. I'm the type of person who needs to not do it sporadically.

    I wouldn't put it past him to try to use his cancer as an excuse. Some kind of "after getting cancer I always thought I'd be behind everybody else" reasoning.
    Lance: "I viewed it as very simple. There were things that were oxygen-supplying drugs that were beneficial for cycling. My cocktail was EPO, but not a lot, transfusions and testosterone.

    "I thought, surely I'm running low [on testosterone following the cancer battle] but there's no true justification.

    ----

    Oprah: Were you a bully?

    Lance: "Yes, I was a bully. I was a bully in the sense that I tried to control the narrative and if I didn't like what someone said I turned on them."

    Oprah: Is that your nature - when someone says something you don't like, you go on attack? Have you been like that your entire life - 10-years-old, 12-years-old and 14-years-old?

    Lance: "My entire life. Before my diagnosis I was a competitor but not a fierce competitor. When I was diagnosed, that turned me into a fighter. That was good. I took that ruthless win-at-all-costs attitude into cycling which was bad."



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  12. #272
    The Patient HeroZero's Avatar
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    My feelings for the whole thing are if you couldn't catch him doping then I guess he wasn't doping by their guidelines, or not to an extent that was testable. He should keep the titles, because there would have been another poor shmuck who would have done the exact same thing. What they should have done is huge fines (read sue him) and then used his experiences to better their testing ability just like you would do with a world class computer hacker.

  13. #273
    So I spoke up for him a long time ago in this thread, pretty much shot to shit in the mean time I guess, he's gonna get what's coming to him through lawsuits & all that stuff and he's been banned from competing on a professional level (a superficial act given age anyway) but lets get a few things perfectly clear. Firstly this "cancer turned me into a win at all costs" thing, it's kinda true, cancer does change your outlook on things, for some people it gives us a tremendous amount of perspective on things (I turned into one of those guys who instead of being WORKWORKWORK all the time I saw that I needed to take a step back & enjoy life), for others it makes them ruthless. But by the same measure it doesn't excuse it. I'm someone who rather than seeing Lance Armstrong cyclist & doper, sees Lance Armstrong, cancer survivor & fundraiser - yeah he is a cyclist & doper, but ultimately the guy has been responsible for inspiring MILLIONS of people to discuss cancer & donate towards it's effects.

    I don't like admitting that I was wrong in saying he was clean and all that, but I don't mind doing so because as anyone who's read the baseball thread knows, I'm pretty anti-PED & very much in the "make an example of them" club (ironic for someone who's taken steroids - although not to enhance performance it's gotta be said!) - so on reflection I think it's got to be done that he's held up high. Cycling is a dirty sport, no two ways about that, I'd like to think that there's a generation out there now who are clean & do things properly, but ultimately it's going to be tarnished forever because of the fact it's been one of the worst sports for drug & "artificial assistance" over a prolonged period. It IS possible to win clean (hopefully GB cycling proves that on a regular basis) but in reality it's clearly something that Armstrong has had a hand in ensuring was not going to be easy & I do sincerely apologise for backing him, but given the depth & extend of his deceit I think it's very difficult to really understand much more than that.
    Koodledrum - Balnazzar EU - 85 Priest - Retired.

  14. #274
    Titan Wildtree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fengore View Post
    We had this discussion during the Olympics. Opening up free reign on substance abuse is just going to lead to deaths, look at most wrestlers from the 80s and early 90s.
    Although, essentially I agree with you. One thing jumps on me here.
    you say "most wrestlers". that disturbs me a bit, just as it disturbs me when people say "they all doped in cycling" in both cases it's simply not true.
    Some did it, maybe even a lot did it. But definitely not all.
    As for wrestling, most of them are still alive. Some of them died from drug unrelated deaths.
    Another thing, USADA/WADA spent billions to perfect their doping searching, yet they still can't do it properly, so where did that money go?
    Into research and improvement. You are aware that they could now prove samples as positive for substances that weren't possible to be tested some 5 years ago, or longer? That's part of what got Armstrong in the end... Improved science made it possible.

    Generally, nothing wrong with that part in sports at all. The World as a whole agreed on banning doping from sports. Every athlete knows about that, when they compete. Billions spend money to watch the sports events. The people want to see true athletes that deserve to win, pure and untainted. because of their talents and skills. No one cares about steroid clowns.

  15. #275
    Good to know he'll still make a crap ton of money from this: "Meanwhile, Armstrong's fall from grace is to be turned into a Hollywood biopic, with Paramount Pictures buying the film rights to a forthcoming book that unravels his career."

    Quoted from http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/g...n-8458764.html
    Last edited by Maievshadow; 2013-01-20 at 11:50 PM.

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