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  1. #1

    Unhappy Loads of damage in Heroics

    Hey everyone,

    Since i've got iLevel 610 I went for Heroics. Problem is that sometimes I'm getting loads of damage. I can't really say when this is. Sometimes on trashmobs, sometimes on bosses. And then i'm dropping till around 10% and need to hit LoH or other CD's.

    My rotation is the same as Noxxic is advising me. The same counts for Glyphs, talents, seals, etc.

    I use to pop CD's when rushing into trashmobs and when getting loads of damage on bosses. Fully buffed i have around 280K health.

    Does anyone can tell me of i'm missing something on my rotation, gear or..?

    Sorry for not giving any links, but I get an error message when posting 'm: You are not allowed to post any kinds of links, images or videos until you post a few times.

    PS. Do Ardent defender and Guardian of Ancient king stack together?

  2. #2
    noxxic is severely outdated you kinda need to use askmrrobot and icy-veins for more up-to-date information

  3. #3
    First thing i want to say is

    Heroics require you to be very active at 610ilvl - as a tank if you stand in stuff you can avoid, and you ONLY just hit the req - you're going to die.

    As for rotation - there is no rotation in tanking and about `guides` i personally wouldnt follow Noxxic / icy veins, i always hear people cry about noxic being trash, but honestly Icy veins and noxic are both very similar tbh - they help people with very basics of the class, the rest is up to you, and as a tank - Its more comon sense than anything;

    - Your job is to keep everyone safe and alive - just play it smart, Use Cd's if a ninja pull / mass dmg etc - don't stack CDs - If you have a good few seconds of SoTR buff - do not stack divine protection for it, wait till SoTR buff is almost gone and such.

    If you try do a rotation of just spamming SoTR off CD (which you may get away with most of the time) you will get Instagibbed at some point by a hard hitting boss / trash, rotate mitigation.

    About your last question - dont- You only need one of them honestly. - but if you really want too - They dont stack as in you will get a 60% dmg reduction.
    Guardian will reduce the dmg by 40%..
    then AD will reduce THE NEW damage by 20%, its not as strong as simply reducing the original dmg by 60%.

    I would just customize your UI to see all your dmg reduction buffs (sotr / cds) , Try rotate them and not stack them, at some points you'll have a bad healer and always be ready to use Lay of hands, dont be afraid to buy healing tonic pots either (they heal for 200k at some points!)

    If you want more better indepth help though; link your armory or give us your name/server so we can check the armory for it, and im sure you'll get more help in terms of gearing/talents/glyphs.

  4. #4
    Stood in the Fire Vampz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgomir View Post
    noxxic is severely outdated you kinda need to use askmrrobot and icy-veins for more up-to-date information
    *bats on head with nerf bat*

    stahp mentioning bad sources
    wat r u doin
    stahp
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by TwentyTwelve View Post
    First thing i want to say is

    Heroics require you to be very active at 610ilvl - as a tank if you stand in stuff you can avoid, and you ONLY just hit the req - you're going to die.

    As for rotation - there is no rotation in tanking and about `guides` i personally wouldnt follow Noxxic / icy veins, i always hear people cry about noxic being trash, but honestly Icy veins and noxic are both very similar tbh - they help people with very basics of the class, the rest is up to you, and as a tank - Its more comon sense than anything;

    - Your job is to keep everyone safe and alive - just play it smart, Use Cd's if a ninja pull / mass dmg etc - don't stack CDs - If you have a good few seconds of SoTR buff - do not stack divine protection for it, wait till SoTR buff is almost gone and such.

    If you try do a rotation of just spamming SoTR off CD (which you may get away with most of the time) you will get Instagibbed at some point by a hard hitting boss / trash, rotate mitigation.

    About your last question - dont- You only need one of them honestly. - but if you really want too - They dont stack as in you will get a 60% dmg reduction.
    Guardian will reduce the dmg by 40%..
    then AD will reduce THE NEW damage by 20%, its not as strong as simply reducing the original dmg by 60%.

    I would just customize your UI to see all your dmg reduction buffs (sotr / cds) , Try rotate them and not stack them, at some points you'll have a bad healer and always be ready to use Lay of hands, dont be afraid to buy healing tonic pots either (they heal for 200k at some points!)

    If you want more better indepth help though; link your armory or give us your name/server so we can check the armory for it, and im sure you'll get more help in terms of gearing/talents/glyphs.
    You know how paladin tanks work right.... There certainly is a rotation or at least a priority system for tankadins. Please don't give bad advise to someone.

    You need to make sure you are giving yourself max holy power generation, as standard your holy power generators will be crusader strike/hammer and judgment. If you talent into SActified Wrath your holy wrath spell will also generate holy power.

    If you give us your toon name and any recent logs we can look into this further for now however in the mean time make sure you are never wasting a global on a spell which could be a holy power generator!

  6. #6
    Blademaster Rawrzillasor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sexybeast View Post
    make sure you are never wasting a global on a spell which could be a holy power generator!
    then spend those on SoTR. its near impossible to die when SoTR is up almost all the time.

  7. #7
    Also try to stun and silence as much stuff you can in heroics, dont be afraid of using cds in trash mobs.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by sexybeast View Post
    You know how paladin tanks work right.... There certainly is a rotation or at least a priority system for tankadins. Please don't give bad advise to someone.

    You need to make sure you are giving yourself max holy power generation, as standard your holy power generators will be crusader strike/hammer and judgment. If you talent into Sactified Wrath your holy wrath spell will also generate holy power.

    If you give us your toon name and any recent logs we can look into this further for now however in the mean time make sure you are never wasting a global on a spell which could be a holy power generator!
    Lol wasn't trying to give someone bad advice that's generally how i think off tanking, its common sense and yes you could call it a `rotation` that you are prioritizing holy power gains but to me people asking for a rotation is generally me thinking of the whole "CLC" crap and that kind of thinking should be avoided for tanking especially. - just looked at noxic and that was kinda my point, 2 second glance at the `rotation` of them telling people to do stuff like a script and they're advising people to skip judgement on aoe rotation?

    The point i should of made is there is no set rotation as it can change a hell of a lot depending on play style stat build, talent and procs, but as you said yes, prioritize building HP above anything else. Sorry but i didn't try to give bad advice but i still stand by what i said - there is no rotation.

  9. #9
    Crusader strike/hammer (single target/cleave) judgment, filler (holy wrath/consercration) rinse and repeat.

    SotR is off the GCD so use it when needed or at 5 holy power so as not to lose HoPo.

    That's the regular rotation for tankadins. Make sure to keep SAcred Shield up at all times, it now can go up to 30 odd seconds so it's easy to keep up.

    Remember to use your cool downs before the hit comes in not after it to boost your survivability.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by TwentyTwelve View Post
    i personally wouldnt follow Noxxic / icy veins, i always hear .
    Icy Veins guide is largely content coming straight from Theck, if nothing else it's a pretty solid starter resource before you feel comfortable enough to make these decisions for yourself.

    Askmrrobot can sometimes do weird things like advise you to socket stam, but once again if you double check all the weights and employ a little common sense it can be a helpful tool also.

    Haven't used Noxxic so wouldn't really know where to start.

    If you can get through all the content (it's pretty heavy) Thecks blog over at sacredduty.net is probably the best resource out there.

    Failing all of that, posting a link to your armory on MMO-Champ (while slightly annoying and leaving you open for criticism) is a pretty sure fire way to find out exactly what silly mistakes you are making in the gear/glyph/talent area.

    And beyond all that, providing logs (which I assume you don't have at this point) is the best way for people to poke holes in your rotation.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by TwentyTwelve View Post
    About your last question - dont- You only need one of them honestly. - but if you really want too - They dont stack as in you will get a 60% dmg reduction.
    Guardian will reduce the dmg by 40%..
    then AD will reduce THE NEW damage by 20%, its not as strong as simply reducing the original dmg by 60%.
    They do stack - just not additively. GoAK + AD is around 58 - 62% DR. The way you're describing it implies that they are wholly individual with an overriding mechanic between the two (which they are not) but that might just be your wording.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by UnderworldSoup View Post
    They do stack - just not additively. GoAK + AD is around 58 - 62% DR. The way you're describing it implies that they are wholly individual with an overriding mechanic between the two (which they are not) but that might just be your wording.
    What he said si the same as the maths you did.

    A lot of the instances have elementals. Glyphing Holy Wrath to stun elementals can be a huge damage intake reduction.
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  13. #13
    If the boss is killing you easily then you need to check you're use of abilities. If trash is killing you but bosses are not a big problem, then CC is your problem.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Vampz View Post
    stahp mentioning bad sources
    Noxxic, yes. Icy Veins is more reliable, so not "bad" just basic.

  15. #15
    High Overlord Wymarc's Avatar
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    Stacking a 40% and 20% damage reduction together gives you a 52% damage reduction just for those who wanted to know how much stacking them will actually reduce

  16. #16
    at that kind of Ilvl you cant have gaps in your mitigation. Especially if your not ccing groups.

    1.Talents
    a. sacred shield
    b. unbreakable spirit (required)
    c. sanc wrath
    d. Seraphim

    2. Glyphs
    a. Alab Shield
    b. divine protection
    c. final wrath

    3. Rotation
    a. Sacred shield
    b. Divine protection
    c. gain holypower, Crusader strike, judgement, holywrath, avenger shield procs
    d. Seraphim
    e. regenerate holy power
    f. once Seraphim falls of use up the 5 hp you stored on Shield of the righteous
    g. generate some HP (you have 3 seconds cast another shield of righteous)
    h. Rinse and repeat.

    With this rotation your going to survive alot longer. Could use trinkets throughout depending on the damage your taking. Reason I love this rotation there isnt so much button smashing with SotR. Have fun and good luck!

  17. #17
    To be Honest holyshield is better for mitigation atm than seraphim. using HP on anything but SoTR is a waste. you will also get more up time on SoTR from DP rather than sanc wrath but it will be random...

  18. #18
    Link to my character: eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/darksorrow/Homarus/advanced

    Thanks for the info. But i see that we not all agree about the use of some specific talents. Should i use:

    Eternal Flame - Sacred Shield?
    Sanctified Wrath - Device Purpose?
    Seraphim - Holy Shield?

    I will make some logs this evening.

  19. #19
    me personally? SS DP and HS

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Homarus View Post
    Hey everyone,

    Since i've got iLevel 610 I went for Heroics. Problem is that sometimes I'm getting loads of damage. I can't really say when this is. Sometimes on trashmobs, sometimes on bosses. And then i'm dropping till around 10% and need to hit LoH or other CD's.

    My rotation is the same as Noxxic is advising me. The same counts for Glyphs, talents, seals, etc.

    I use to pop CD's when rushing into trashmobs and when getting loads of damage on bosses. Fully buffed i have around 280K health.

    Does anyone can tell me of i'm missing something on my rotation, gear or..?

    Sorry for not giving any links, but I get an error message when posting 'm: You are not allowed to post any kinds of links, images or videos until you post a few times.

    PS. Do Ardent defender and Guardian of Ancient king stack together?
    nope, you are not missing anything. Trash in heroics is harder than bosses. Save your CDs for that, you wont need it for bosses! Most boss dmg can be avoided or mitigated by mechanics and your group following tactics (like locating their swap target key!).

    Trash generally needs to be focussed down in an order rather than just aoe'd (you can just aoe, but your healer will be under pressure), its not so much you need CC its more than some mobs give buffs to others to need to die first, others have casts that need to be interrupted....at these gear levels, its a lot of dmg if you take the same approach you did at end of MoP, ie just run in and aoe the fuck out of everything.

    talents:
    Sacred shield
    Divine purpose
    Holy Prism (personal choice maybe, but low CD and flexible use, non-positional)
    I would personally take holy shield. It smooths out the incomming dmg more than Seraphim (which is argueably more useful against burst), but as someone who heals a lot, i appreciate the benefits a more consistent level of dmg is to heal than bursts, which is why druids/dks are a pain to heal imo).

    (above is personal opinion only, your mileage may differ depending on playstyle etc).

    btw, dont stack cds, chain them if you need to.
    Last edited by Houyi; 2014-11-28 at 11:03 AM.

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