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  1. #61
    Obviously yes. I thought that was kinda obvious without me having to say it :P

  2. #62
    Wasn't aimed at you Proberly, i just thought it best to clarify. I have seen people read this guide and then think they HAVE to pool to 5 Holy Power before using a TV, so they are sitting there are 4 Holy Power waiting for CS to come off CD for 2 seconds and stupid stuff like that.

  3. #63
    Moderator Krekko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ishau View Post
    Wasn't aimed at you Proberly, i just thought it best to clarify. I have seen people read this guide and then think they HAVE to pool to 5 Holy Power before using a TV, so they are sitting there are 4 Holy Power waiting for CS to come off CD for 2 seconds and stupid stuff like that.
    Yeah, It's a confusing concept to get at first, and thought it would be fine to just have it folded into the rotation description but I've pulled it out, and flushed out the concept more in the post. And made it red. Hopefully this will offer a bit more clarity.

    Once I can I'll make a flowchart or something. Haha.

    Sorry for slow updates and followups. I've been quite sick the past 3 days.
    Last edited by Krekko; 2012-09-02 at 05:23 AM.
    -Retribution, the path of the protector or mender brought to it's natural conclusion; destroying evil before the weak need to be shielded from it, and before it can wound the innocent.
    | [MoP]Ret Paladin Guide | Fix My DPS | Fix My Heals | Fix My Tanking |

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  4. #64
    Started playing again my pally out of boredom till MOP and I want to ask something concerning ability hierarchy. As far as my brief experience from recount breakdown is concerned I noticed exorcism being the hardest hitting ability only second to TV and slightly above hammer of wrath. To sum up it goes like TV>exo>how>judge>CS.

    Also, my napkin math indicates that 'aoe rotation' kicks in only at 3 at least targets. Is that correct?

  5. #65
    a question
    from how many mobs on is it worth using the AoE seal? either I am blind or it isn't in the OP ^^

  6. #66
    Moderator Krekko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catablitz View Post
    Started playing again my pally out of boredom till MOP and I want to ask something concerning ability hierarchy. As far as my brief experience from recount breakdown is concerned I noticed exorcism being the hardest hitting ability only second to TV and slightly above hammer of wrath. To sum up it goes like TV>exo>how>judge>CS.

    Also, my napkin math indicates that 'aoe rotation' kicks in only at 3 at least targets. Is that correct?
    Our Mastery (Hand of Light) affects Hammer of Wrath, as opposed to Exo, that's something to consider. To the best of my knowledge and understanding you'll want to prioritize HoW>Exo. I'll be sure to check against what Exemplar and others have to say though. However the HoL benefit of HoW made it pull ahead.

    If someone else can provide an appropriated correction on this though I'll be glad to change it.

    You can use DS at 2+ targets, HotR at 4+ and SoR at 6+.


    Quote Originally Posted by Enosh View Post
    a question
    from how many mobs on is it worth using the AoE seal? either I am blind or it isn't in the OP ^^
    It was there, it was folded in more though as it's not as viable of an option. I noted it with the AoE rotation, and then again rather than having it folded in with explanations this time though so it should be more clear. It's 6+ targets, so large trash packs.
    Last edited by Krekko; 2012-09-02 at 06:34 PM.
    -Retribution, the path of the protector or mender brought to it's natural conclusion; destroying evil before the weak need to be shielded from it, and before it can wound the innocent.
    | [MoP]Ret Paladin Guide | Fix My DPS | Fix My Heals | Fix My Tanking |

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  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Ishau View Post
    Wasn't aimed at you Proberly, i just thought it best to clarify. I have seen people read this guide and then think they HAVE to pool to 5 Holy Power before using a TV, so they are sitting there are 4 Holy Power waiting for CS to come off CD for 2 seconds and stupid stuff like that.
    Honestly, we have explained this so many times that at this point really just need to read more carefully, it's always been clearly stated that it's fine to use a 3HP TV if you have nothing else to hit, but people skim over the guide and so they miss any conditional instructions, and then don't have the common sense to fill in the gaps they left for themselves.

  8. #68
    So. looking at MoP first tier BiS, which race would be the best to pick, human or draenei? Well, I havn't really looked into BiS yet, but if some of you have?

    Always felt like draenei has been the best due to exp cap having been so easy to reach, but now they've removed the glyph. I guess it doesn't matter much at all, but I will want to squeeze every single stat out that I can.
    Last edited by Proberly; 2012-09-02 at 08:48 PM.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Proberly View Post
    So. looking at MoP first tier BiS, which race would be the best to pick, human or draenei? Well, I havn't really looked into BiS yet, but if some of you have?

    Always felt like draenei has been the best due to exp cap having been so easy to reach, but now they've removed the glyph. I guess it doesn't matter much at all, but I will want to squeeze every single stat out that I can.
    Apparently, hit is going to be extremely easy to cap with gear alone, even reforging out of it. That would probably make Draenei's racial less attractive.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Tangra View Post
    Honestly, we have explained this so many times that at this point really just need to read more carefully, it's always been clearly stated that it's fine to use a 3HP TV if you have nothing else to hit, but people skim over the guide and so they miss any conditional instructions, and then don't have the common sense to fill in the gaps they left for themselves.
    Yes people do need to read more carefully, or they should be able to understand the mechanics of their class well enough to make certain conclusions on their own accord, in an ideal world.

    One thing to remember though is that MMO Champion caters to the entire community, from the best to the worst. Whilst many people could read the guide could read through it and understand crystal clear what was meant, there are others that couldn't.
    I have seen people here on MMO Champion, and various other forums complain that they are having too many periods of waiting, and are seeing a DPS loss now that they have to pool their Holy Power up to 5.
    It is for that reason I wanted the OP post to be more clear. Not for the benefit of people like yourself, or Proberly and everyone else that does understand it, but for the benefit of those newer to the game/those who don't really understand the mechanics behind it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Proberly
    Always felt like draenei has been the best due to exp cap having been so easy to reach, but now they've removed the glyph. I guess it doesn't matter much at all, but I will want to squeeze every single stat out that I can.
    I would say go human for 3 reasons.
    1.) Expertise is found less on gear than Hit is. Whilst we have had an easy time in the past getting expertise, it'll be a bit more difficult now. Hit is quite common and for this reason I'd rate 1% Free Expertise > 1% Free Hit.

    2.) Every Man for Himself does have its use on some boss encounters.

    3.) If you wanted to utilize your OS (as many Rets do, they'll have a Holy or Prot OS) then the 3% Spirit is extremely nice for Holy.

  11. #71
    Moderator Krekko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ishau View Post
    It is for that reason I wanted the OP post to be more clear. Not for the benefit of people like yourself, or Proberly and everyone else that does understand it, but for the benefit of those newer to the game/those who don't really understand the mechanics behind it.



    I would say go human for 3 reasons.
    1.) Expertise is found less on gear than Hit is. Whilst we have had an easy time in the past getting expertise, it'll be a bit more difficult now. Hit is quite common and for this reason I'd rate 1% Free Expertise > 1% Free Hit.

    2.) Every Man for Himself does have its use on some boss encounters.

    3.) If you wanted to utilize your OS (as many Rets do, they'll have a Holy or Prot OS) then the 3% Spirit is extremely nice for Holy.
    It's there and has been made clear, just sometimes people don't actually *read* what is there. They just look. Now it's in red though, I'm sure they'll stop when going over it. I'm always glad to articulate and make things more clear when suggested! I want this to be as informational and as much as a community thing as possible.


    However, I endorse the Human Race.


    Quote Originally Posted by Proberly View Post
    So. looking at MoP first tier BiS, which race would be the best to pick, human or draenei? Well, I havn't really looked into BiS yet, but if some of you have?

    Always felt like draenei has been the best due to exp cap having been so easy to reach, but now they've removed the glyph. I guess it doesn't matter much at all, but I will want to squeeze every single stat out that I can.
    I would say Human as well. The Expertise when you have it is always nice, and I can't help but be eternally attached to my Every Man, it can still help some gimmicky fights. Plus, after Dwarves, Orcs and Humans seem to be getting the two newest model rollouts!
    -Retribution, the path of the protector or mender brought to it's natural conclusion; destroying evil before the weak need to be shielded from it, and before it can wound the innocent.
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  12. #72
    Field Marshal Zatski's Avatar
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    Does anyone know what affects the RNG of Divine Purpose?

    I ran the Siege of Wyrmrest while spec'd into Holy Avenger and was averaging 25k - 26k per boss.

    I then ran Fall of Deathwing spec'd into Divine Purpose with Glyph of Word of Glory and Glyph of Harsh Words.
    I was averaging 35k - 40k per boss.

    The proc's from Divine Purpose were frequent and allowed me to keep the WoG buff up more often.

    Any feed back would be welcome.

    Zatski

  13. #73
    ^ I would suggest doing the same fights with different talents/glyphs before jumping to any conclusions after averaging higher on fights you are supposed to average much higher on.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Zatski View Post
    Does anyone know what affects the RNG of Divine Purpose?

    I ran the Siege of Wyrmrest while spec'd into Holy Avenger and was averaging 25k - 26k per boss.

    I then ran Fall of Deathwing spec'd into Divine Purpose with Glyph of Word of Glory and Glyph of Harsh Words.
    I was averaging 35k - 40k per boss.

    The proc's from Divine Purpose were frequent and allowed me to keep the WoG buff up more often.

    Any feed back would be welcome.

    Zatski
    Actually plenty of people are reporting higher damage for Divine Purpose on fight where the boss does not have a burn phase, like when Hagara is stunned for example. I'm confused though, why are you keeping the WoG buff up, even with the buff from the glyph TV does more damage, I heven't heard of anyone claiming that it's a damage increase.

    You also kind of switched talents, and glyphs, and seem to have changed your play style, so I'm not sure why you would expect any consistency or explanation for your results, where you using Glyphs of Harsh Words and WoG when you were using Holy Avenger. I also have no idea what "Does anyone know what affects the RNG of Divine Purpose?" means, it's a 25% on any ability that uses holy power to proc Divine Purpse, nothing affects it.

    Also, Ultraxion is a tank and spank so you're supposed to do a lot of damage, and the rest of the Fall of Deathwing fights have adds, cleaving, and damage taken increases on the boss. So...

  15. #75
    Holy Avenger causes your Holy Power generating abilities to generate 3 Holy Power instead of 1 for 15 seconds, every 2 minutes. It is similar to the old Zealotry cooldown. If this talent is taken, the rotation during Holy Avenger will probably be:

    •Holy Power generator (such as Crusader Strike);
    •Templar's Verdict;
    •Holy Power generator;
    •Templar's Verdict;
    •Holy Power generator;
    •Templar's Verdict;
    •etc.

    It is best to open with EXO since it hit harder than crusader and u let the AW to prc it again or atleast have it faster on CD.

  16. #76
    Moderator Krekko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zatski View Post
    Does anyone know what affects the RNG of Divine Purpose?

    I ran the Siege of Wyrmrest while spec'd into Holy Avenger and was averaging 25k - 26k per boss.

    I then ran Fall of Deathwing spec'd into Divine Purpose with Glyph of Word of Glory and Glyph of Harsh Words.
    I was averaging 35k - 40k per boss.

    The proc's from Divine Purpose were frequent and allowed me to keep the WoG buff up more often.

    Any feed back would be welcome.

    Zatski
    RNG is RNG. It's 25% chance to proc DP on the use of an ability that consumes HP.

    You're comparing apples to oranges though. You can't really judge performance of one over the other, or your performance on such wildly variable possibilities. HA and DP will perform better in certain situations. Need burn? HA. Need sustained? DP.

    How were you utilizing your CD's though while using HA? Perhaps that could give us some idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by marcosider View Post
    Holy Avenger causes your Holy Power generating abilities to generate 3 Holy Power instead of 1 for 15 seconds, every 2 minutes. It is similar to the old Zealotry cooldown. If this talent is taken, the rotation during Holy Avenger will probably be:

    •Holy Power generator (such as Crusader Strike);
    •Templar's Verdict;
    •Holy Power generator;
    •Templar's Verdict;
    •Holy Power generator;
    •Templar's Verdict;
    •etc.

    It is best to open with EXO since it hit harder than crusader and u let the AW to prc it again or atleast have it faster on CD.
    It's funny you you mention this. I come back to answer someone else's post and see this. I just finished a re-do of the talents section, a first go-over and had changed that.

    To be clear though, DO NOT WAIT for EXO to be on CD, don't want people waiting around for Exo to use it each time.
    -Retribution, the path of the protector or mender brought to it's natural conclusion; destroying evil before the weak need to be shielded from it, and before it can wound the innocent.
    | [MoP]Ret Paladin Guide | Fix My DPS | Fix My Heals | Fix My Tanking |

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  17. #77
    It's funny you you mention this. I come back to answer someone else's post and see this. I just finished a re-do of the talents section, a first go-over and had changed that.

    To be clear though, DO NOT WAIT for EXO to be on CD, don't want people waiting around for Exo to use it each time.[/QUOTE]

    I was talking about opening and DIDNOT advise people to sitt around and delay on othere HOPO generator because of EXO .

  18. #78
    Moderator Krekko's Avatar
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    I was talking about opening and DIDNOT advise people to sitt around and delay on othere HOPO generator because of EXO .
    You're missing a quote!

    Oh I know! I was just reinforcing this.

    Just making sure no one was taking it the wrong way. Making sure it's not TV5 2.0.
    Last edited by Krekko; 2012-09-05 at 12:49 PM.
    -Retribution, the path of the protector or mender brought to it's natural conclusion; destroying evil before the weak need to be shielded from it, and before it can wound the innocent.
    | [MoP]Ret Paladin Guide | Fix My DPS | Fix My Heals | Fix My Tanking |

    WoW Level Scaling Feature

  19. #79
    no harm done.
    Last edited by marcosider; 2012-09-05 at 11:28 AM.

  20. #80
    a simple question for me...
    i've already capped JC . which profession it's better to combo with ?
    Inscription has 520 STR on shoulder and leather 500 STR on bracer so i assume that inscription is the best ?

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