Page 1 of 2
1
2
LastLast
  1. #1
    High Overlord
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Lake Tahoe, Califorina
    Posts
    127

    Frost Dual Wield DK any good come 5.0.4?

    I've checked every single post and didn't find an answer yet. What is the state of the dual wield Frost DK is it still viable in 5.0.4 or would going 2h Frost be better? I've been trying to figure out what talents to get but haven't got that far talking raid dps wise mainly.

  2. #2
    go to simcraft.com and look at T14H or T14N and you'll see where they stand!
    they seem pretty good tbh.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoniarc View Post
    go to simcraft.com and look at T14H or T14N and you'll see where they stand!
    they seem pretty good tbh.
    Don't do that. It isn't really going to give you your answer. Sims are very meh, and they've said not all classes are correct on there. But to answer your question, they're both very close, while 2h is better at single target, and dw will be good for cleave fights and any huge aoe fight.

  4. #4
    In regards to DW, does much change in the way of runeforge/reforging/gemming? Also the age old debate in regards to RC or RE, what would better suit DW?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Secretive View Post
    In regards to DW, does much change in the way of runeforge/reforging/gemming? Also the age old debate in regards to RC or RE, what would better suit DW?
    If you play Masterfrost 2.0 (basically spam HB) mastery comes out slightly a head, standard frost rotation favors Haste>mastery. So nothing really new there.

    From my understanding RE over RC will all ways be better for Frost.

  6. #6
    Immortal Soisoisoi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    England
    Posts
    7,407
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaosbringer View Post
    If you play Masterfrost 2.0 (basically spam HB) mastery comes out slightly a head, standard frost rotation favors Haste>mastery. So nothing really new there.

    From my understanding RE over RC will all ways be better for Frost.
    Is MasterFrost still viable with the changes, though? Last I heard RC was the ahead, which means gaming runes won't be possible, and then the changes which increases FS and Oblit damage depending on your weps just made me think MasterFrost would be dead - but I've done no research or whatever to back it up.
    Last edited by Soisoisoi; 2012-08-26 at 10:43 PM.

  7. #7
    Last time I checked (a few days ago) level 90 single target sims are:

    UH 2H > Frost 2H (-3.5% dps) > Frost DW (-6% dps)

    For multiple targets Frost was ahead.

    They're pretty close and probably both viable to play.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by PowerGamez View Post
    Last time I checked (a few days ago) level 90 single target sims are:

    UH 2H > Frost 2H (-3.5% dps) > Frost DW (-6% dps)

    For multiple targets Frost was ahead.

    They're pretty close and probably both viable to play.
    What sims are you looking at? Unholy hasn't been ahead of frost since the Unholy Might nerf.
    Vampire Zombie Werewolf

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by PowerGamez View Post
    Last time I checked (a few days ago) level 90 single target sims are:

    UH 2H > Frost 2H (-3.5% dps) > Frost DW (-6% dps)

    For multiple targets Frost was ahead.

    They're pretty close and probably both viable to play.
    A few days, plus a week or 2? Unholy got stomped out.

  10. #10
    2H frost and DW frost are basically identical if you play DW frost w/ masterfrost 2.0 priority (obliterate only with unholy runes, HB otherwise, basically). If you play hastefrost with DW you will be slightly behind, but not by a large margin. Unholy remains well below frost. Frost uses RE, unholy uses macroed blood tap, blood uses blood tap, either macroed or not as the player prefers.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    2H frost and DW frost are basically identical if you play DW frost w/ masterfrost 2.0 priority (obliterate only with unholy runes, HB otherwise, basically). If you play hastefrost with DW you will be slightly behind, but not by a large margin. Unholy remains well below frost. Frost uses RE, unholy uses macroed blood tap, blood uses blood tap, either macroed or not as the player prefers.
    And what about PvP? DW Frost (Masterfrost) and 2H Frost (Hastefrost)... which are doin better?

    And on PvP it's better to use RE or Macroed Blood Tap as a frtos DK ?

  12. #12
    No clue. 2H frost is very bursty, though. Many players fully expect it to be overnerfed for PvP reasons, after which we'll all be DW frost.
    Last edited by Schizoide; 2012-08-27 at 03:48 AM.

  13. #13
    Are these latest changes to the beta being updated on Tuesday's patch? Currently for heroic T14 simcraft puts DW ahead of 2h slightly. So that's basically masterfrost 2.0 we're expecting with this new patch?

    ie. frost dual wield in Frost Presence with hit + exp caps > mastery > haste > crit
    use frost / death runes on howling blast and always keep 1 UH rune on CD to game RE procs.
    frost strike for RP dumping.
    Use obliterate when the UH rune is approaching refresh unless we gotta reapply blood plague?


    that's the gist of what we gotta do if we're using the optimum spec?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoniarc View Post
    go to simcraft.com and look at T14H or T14N and you'll see where they stand!
    they seem pretty good tbh.
    I will slap the next person that direct someone else to simcraft.

    It is a terrible website and is always inaccurate and wrong.

    That being said, 2H frost and dw are pretty neck in neck. Unholy is a bit below them, but play whichever spec you want.

    However, here's some food for thought: For DW, your obliterates and Frost strikes hit almost the same amount of damage, so it doesn't matter if you use a KM proc on a obliterate or FS, while as 2H your obliterate hits significantly harder then frost strike, making it more punishing to play but more rewarding if played properly.
    Last edited by hasslehoof; 2012-08-27 at 05:33 PM.

  15. #15
    FYI, ignoring killing machine as DW masterfrost is a 1.84% DPS loss.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    FYI, ignoring killing machine as DW masterfrost is a 1.84% DPS loss.
    it would be silly to ignore it. However you should (and it would be hard not to) use it on Frost Strike.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaosbringer View Post
    it would be silly to ignore it. However you should (and it would be hard not to) use it on Frost Strike.
    Err, you said it doesn't matter if you use it on oblit or FS. That's what I responded to.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Err, you said it doesn't matter if you use it on oblit or FS. That's what I responded to.
    If you play Masterfrost 2.0 (basically spam HB) mastery comes out slightly a head, standard frost rotation favors Haste>mastery. So nothing really new there.

    From my understanding RE over RC will all ways be better for Frost.

    was my post here.

    If you play DW hastefrost it doesn't matter what you use it on (OB or FS), but you should not ignore KM all together.

    MasterFrost however stacks mastery pushing FS over OB, so FS has priority.

  19. #19
    Oh, you were talking about DW hastefrost. Well DW hastefrost sims 1.7% below DW masterfrost2.0 to start off. If you then ignore killing machine, DW hastefrost is a full 2.7% below DW masterfrost 2.0.

    So basically, the answer is no, that's also incorrect. I suppose you might be able to ignore a 1.7% DPS drop and play DW hastefrost (although why you wouldn't just play 2H frost instead is unclear) but 2.7%? No way.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    No clue. 2H frost is very bursty, though. Many players fully expect it to be overnerfed for PvP reasons, after which we'll all be DW frost.
    I'm thinking it won't be as bursty as we think, since we'll have a ton of armor in PVP at 90, and Obliterate is still physical damage, so it gets the double-dip on DR, Armor then Resil, it'll probably hit much softer then people expect once it's been reduced by the default 30% PVP resilence and between 20% and 40~% armor reduction.

    It'll hit hard, but I'm not seeing Frost DKs going around two-shotting people anymore then arms will with it's equally-powerful MS/Slam weapon damage modifiers.
    Last edited by Murdos; 2012-08-27 at 09:29 PM.
    Vampire Zombie Werewolf

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •