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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Nangz View Post
    Ok, lets be entirely clear here. If you don't need the cooldown reduction, even used on cd, it doesn't matter which you use. Other damage goes out on bladelord other than tank damage and having vamp blood up, even while not tanking, is valuable.

    If your cooldowns aren't needed to survive boss mechanics, they should be used on CD to help the healers. Else they're just sitting there.
    So you recommend wasting cooldown for a phase where there's no damage going on that can even break your blood shield? (The only raid damage that can hit you on that fight is his cleave which is laughable on a tank)
    Like this you basically get less uses out of VB than you actually would because you use it when you don't even need it and don't have it up while you're tanking the boss °_°
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  2. #202
    Hey, cheers for the guide firstly. I do find it a tad we bit confusing, think that a appendix or some sort of list of what the abreviations mean would have helped. Took me a while to work out RE, RC etc..

    Right down to the nitty gritty, due to the lack of tanks and options for tanking I decided to offer to switch to my DK as the OT for or raid. We are not a hardcore group but are currently being held back by the lack of tanking option + replacements on our server. I have tanked in the past to fill in when previous OT have taken breaks and quit and such, however that was on a paladin.The MT is currently a pala, so it would lead to more problems in the future etc. We are currently trying to progress in MSV HC, and I think we out gear many of the fights we are trying, it's just the state of lack of members available that is holding us back hence the change (sorry to beat about the bush).

    Ok here is the armory of my character, http://http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/terenas/Arison/simple so you can see where I am coming from.

    First question is what is the "stamina cap" everything wants me to gem stamina. I understand that I can be hit more and as a result (from my understanding) I get more vengance that will result in bigger Death Strikes which result in more healing. So what would you recomend I should be aiming at Stamina wise before I go back to Prioritising Mastery?

    Another question is why do they recomend Swordshattering over Stoneskin runeforge? If I am being told that I need Stamina>Mastery>HIt/Exp>Avoidance stats (as they work different now), then would I not be better off with Stoneskin?

    I am going to try Tanking out tonight now to see how it goes and there is no real pressure for now, are there any other good guides or opinions. I know for mage I go through a lot of forums/guides/sites but some of the posters on MMO have given me the best advice on their posts. Hence why I came here.

    Ignore BS not being maxed yet, I just droped herbalisum for it hence why it looks noobish.

  3. #203
    Stamina:
    You need enough stamina to remove the threat of being bursted down quicker than your healers can react (heroic tanking is all about burst dmg). The actual number depends on a lot of things, including you are your playstyle as well as your healers. In general when doing heroic content it's better to err on the side of too much effective health (stamina) than too little, and going oof your armory it doesn't look like you have any stam trinkets, so I would (i don't often recommend this) gem stamina until you can get 1 or even 2 stam trinkets, depending on how quick you can get your hands on some real tanking gear. (also, death strike heal is based off our dmg taken, not dmg done so vengeance doesn't factor into DS heals )


    Runeforge:
    first off, you are pretty undergeared for heroic msv. I think I had 465 when we started heroic msv in the first week it was released, and that was early progression. Because of that, I would avoid putting hit/exp over avoidance. Hit/exp are DPS stats, and avoidance is going to be better for survivability. There's a thread floating around on mmoc that's got three pages of debate between me, dossou from duality, and mionee from envy about whether or not hit/exp is worth it, but we all agree that avoidance is better for pure survivability. (we just don't agree on whether or not sacrificing survivability for dps is optimal in hardcore progression, which isn't what you're doing right now.)

    Now that that's out of the way, heres how to decide which runeforge to pick:
    if you are bursty at all, then SSG will be a better choice as it provides EH. If you are not, then SS is probably a better choice since the 4% parry actually gives you more TDR (total damage reduction).

    Since you're doing early msv heroics (stone guard/feng) i'd say go with SSG (stoneskin gargoyle) simply because both those fights have un-parryable DoTs. Outside of those fights picking your runeforge will have to come down to how "bursty" you are, but with your gear I would probably start with SSG anyway. (though use swordshattering on gara'jal. That fight is all about minimizing the dmg taken for the voodoo dolls attached to you, and your effective health doesn't translate to them)

    Another guide I would recommend is Tyvi's at Elitist Jerks. It's well written and has good info.

    As far as my guide goes, I'll try to make the abbreviations more clear or just add an appendix. Thanks for letting me know.
    Last edited by Reniat; 2013-01-09 at 08:11 PM.

  4. #204
    Cheers for the reply, things went rather well today. I had a moment where thrash got the better of me on sha. However it got me thinking more on using the Blood tap, something that is extreamly powerful. After that my survivability was rather decent, seemed to survive 7% of the last 8% without a healer and then it was a oh shit moment.

    I will have a look at the Elitist Jerks site, but when further questions come up ill drop em here.

  5. #205
    FINALLY added HoF to the encounter specific section. Should have ToES done soon as well. I promise to try and have these out sooner next tier.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Reniat View Post
    FINALLY added HoF to the encounter specific section. Should have ToES done soon as well. I promise to try and have these out sooner next tier.
    thanks for that
    we are just now staring heroic hof with blade lord and I even didn't consider only going 1 stack (didn't down it anyway since we have some other issues to sort), guess I was too rooted in the normal fight strategy and the guides I watched (fatboss) don't really go into tank mechanics
    would you still recommend glyphing IBF for that one? or is a VB enough even for latter stacks (throw in a IBF at later stacks of course)?

  7. #207
    Yes I highly recommend glyph of ibf. With it you can use it on every other OA compared to once out of every three.

  8. #208
    Hey everyone. I have a question pertaining to my Blood Death Knight. When should I replace the Relic of Niuzao trinket and what trinkets should I replace it with? My armory link will be posted below. My guild's current progression is 6/6(1/6 H) MV 6/6 HoF 3/4 ToES. I also have enough valor to purchase the valor trinket, but should I? I'm still confused about trinkets in MoP and any help would be appreciated!

    battle.net/wow/en/character/draenor/Aeidail/simple

  9. #209
    I wouldn't buy the valour trinket. As much as on use mastery is good, on use dodge is better as it gives you mitigation when you need it, not in 10 seconds. A much better use of your valour points is ilvl upgrades.

    The relic of Niuzao is a great trinket, and even if i don't use it, i will keep hold of it for avoidance fights.

    for example, it's an amazing sha of fear trinket. On use dodge for all those triple strikes? on a crazy low CD?

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Akiie View Post
    I wouldn't buy the valour trinket. As much as on use mastery is good, on use dodge is better as it gives you mitigation when you need it, not in 10 seconds. A much better use of your valour points is ilvl upgrades.
    The problem is Dodge by its very nature isn't reliable, and may not be there when you need it. There is a reason we value mastery over avoidance and it's not TDR (total damage reduction). The on use mastery is very useful, especially combined with Blood Tap or ERW for burst death strikes. Lao-chin's Liquid Courage (or the jade warlord figurine. whichever you can get first since they're the same trinket.) is the BiS stamina trinket this tier. If you need a stamina trinket, Lao Chin is the one to use. Keep Niuzao around for when you need 2 stam trinkets (Lei Shi comes to mind) but in general the mastery on use > the dodge on use (not to mention the 200 stamina difference).


    Quote Originally Posted by Aeidial View Post
    Hey everyone. I have a question pertaining to my Blood Death Knight. When should I replace the Relic of Niuzao trinket and what trinkets should I replace it with? My armory link will be posted below. My guild's current progression is 6/6(1/6 H) MV 6/6 HoF 3/4 ToES. I also have enough valor to purchase the valor trinket, but should I? I'm still confused about trinkets in MoP and any help would be appreciated!

    battle.net/wow/en/character/draenor/Aeidail/simple
    Generally you want 1 stam and 1 non-stam trinket, though this is VERY dependent on the content you are doing. Both your raid size and the fight you are doing can affect your trinket set up, but in SUPER general, 1 of each is the way to go.

    Stam trinkets:
    only two real options here. The DMF trinket and Lao Chin's liquid courage/Jade warlord figurine. Use both if you need both, but if you have to pick one go with Lao Chin's/Jade Warlord (they're the same trinket) as it has a better on use and gives more stam.

    Non-stam:
    Three options here. For standard fights you've got Vial of Dragon's blood off Elegon and Stuff of Nightmares and for dps/heavy magic (lei shi) you've got Darkmist Vortex.

    Darkmist Vortex isn't really going to be useful unless you are on lei shi (1 out of 16 fights) or are just trying to boost dps (farmed content).
    Given your guild is still progressing I would avoid this one (your mdps will thank you).

    That just leaves the two mastery trinkets. Now, most people assume Stuff of Nightmares is better because the dodge proc is larger and it has a bit more mastery (as it should, since it's a higher ilvl), however this is not necessarily the case. The 88 mastery isn't nothing, but neither is the uptime on Vial of Dragon's blood. Stuff has a 105s ICD, while Vial has an ICD of only 45s.

    "but reniat, it's still less dodge. Does the ICD really matter?" - you

    Absolutely. The low ICD means you are going to have a much more spread out mitigation. With a 105s ICD it's likely not going to be there when you need it, but with a 45s ICD you have a much greater chance of having the proc up when it most benefits you. It's a simple case of "mitigate more for less as opposed to less for more".

    TL;DR
    mastery trinkets: Vial of Dragon's Blood >= Stuff of nightmares

    Stamina trinkets: Lao Chin's/Jade Warlord > Relic of Niuzao
    Last edited by Reniat; 2013-01-12 at 07:19 PM.

  11. #211
    I agree it's a better trinket, though i'd contend that we need a stamina trinket this tier at all, even for lei shi, for which i'd argue haste gives a far greater benefit, as stam only gives a buffer for slow taunts.

    The value of on use mastery also diminishes after the first use, as you won't have ERW to use with it at the same time. He's also using runic corruption, meaning he can't use it in conjunction with blood tap.

    Also, for fights such as sha, on use dodge far outweighs on use mastery, since the dangerous part is being triple hit and not avoiding any, on use mastery after a such hit would do nothing, as the danger after one is minimal for the next 8 seconds or so, by which time the blood shield will be gone anyways to (non-threatening, easily healed) autoswings from the sha. However, though unreliable, a dodge proc would give him a higher chance of avoiding a strike, removing it's threat entirely.

    Iny my opinion, you should hold out for best in slot trinkets from Elegon and Tsulong, and use your valour on ilvl upgrades whilst you still can.

  12. #212
    You should ideally be using Blood Tap on Sha though, and you said it yourself when you said dodge was unreliable. Mastery is. Burst mastery + Blood Tap will give you better results than the dodge proc since it's 100% guaranteed to help you on the thrash you use it on.

  13. #213
    Another question. Should I use one of the LFR trinkets or both Relic and Lao Chin?

  14. #214
    If you feel you are bursty and can afford to sacrifice the mitigation then go double stam. Otherwise it's generally not ideal to run with double stam trinks unless you really need the EH

  15. #215
    Hi everyone.

    First, thanks for this great guide that helped me a lot at the start of Mists since I changed my main from Hunter to Blood DK ! (tanking is awesome)

    Second, my friends and I would like to give challenge modes a try and I'll be the tank. As I've read, better do it in dps gear. My only problem is my dps gear is pretty lackluster (ilvl460 I think) whereas my tanking gear is better (ilvl484, I only do LFR).

    So my question is : should I still use my dps gear or keep my tanking gear, maybe with some heavy reforging ?

    My DK's name is Astäsie (EU) (can't post links...)

    Also, any advice regarding tanking challenge modes with a Blood DK are greatly appreciated.

    Thanks

  16. #216
    I've yet to finish all challenge modes on my dk, but I've been having no issues using mainly tank gear. Been using a few dps pieces, dps trinkets and fallen crusader enchant though (and reforged to the hitcap, which I usually don't). Tankgear allows you to scale down your death strike usage a little, so it's not a huge dps loss.

    Challenge mode tanking with a blood dk is really strong (healed them as a priest previously and I take less damage and deal more than the warrior tank we used). You should usually have a specific plan for each instance, but general tips are pull quickly, 1-2 packs at a time and go for the next pack before the first one dies unless your healer is low on mana (then give them a split second out of combat to use amber). Chain cds on any large pull (and use minor ones if you just pull one pack/during bosses, bosses are generally not very hard), e.g. icebound->remorseless winter (use it when icebound has 5-6 sec left)->a combination of healer cds/vampiric blood/bone shield/trinkets. Rotate larger and smaller pulls to ensure that you have your major cds up on big pulls. Having solid dps capable of killing the packs before you run out of cds/cc is cruical. Remember that your dps is very significant (I've been topping damage done in most of our runs), use common sense (based on ccs/cds) to know when you can afford to trade death strikes for blood boils.

  17. #217
    Cookie pretty much covered it. The ENTIRE trick to fast challenge modes is how you handle the trash packs. Get through trash quick enough, the gold is yours. I've got a friend who currently holds 8 out of 9 world 1st challenge mode times, and all they do is pull ALL the trash to the first boss then aoe, then pull ALL the trash to the second, and aoe, so on so forth. As a tank, your only concern is gathering up the trash and staying alive. Through vengeance you'll do plenty of damage, so only use dps gear if you know you can survive it.

  18. #218
    High Overlord Ikrekot's Avatar
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    I don't know if someone told it before, but when someone other tank boss first and I use Death Strikes to build high Blood Shield I can't make it higher than my current health. I use Vampiric Blood and I can make it a bit higher because me hp jump up.

  19. #219

  20. #220
    High Overlord Ikrekot's Avatar
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    Thanks for info I didn't know it before.

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