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  1. #381
    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    Just feels odd looking at the difference in dps of my 2 tanks, when they're equally geared :/
    Pallies and monks just have higher DPS right now. Take a loot at: http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Iron_Qon/...00011111000000

  2. #382
    Quote Originally Posted by Reniat View Post
    Pallies and monks just have higher DPS right now. Take a loot at: http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Iron_Qon/...00011111000000
    On 10 man, they're fairly close by, with dk's on top for some fights and paladins on top for others :/ but hmm...

  3. #383
    That's because our vengeance scaling is pretty garbage (which is why I don't understand the buff to RS weapon damage when they should've giving us some pure AP scaling instead).
    Also 10m dks can focus a lot more on dps than 25m dks can - heck even on 10m bosses like Horridon smack you so hard hat you're forced to give up dps stats for stamina.
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  4. #384
    They could increase the proc rate off Death Coil to account for the RP cost. That way it wouldn't be a survivability loss to utilize Death Coil to tap into more of our AP. that would keep our low AP dps exactly the same while letting us do more DPS at higher levels of AP, when death coil does more dps/rp than rune strike.

  5. #385
    Quote Originally Posted by Reniat View Post
    They could increase the proc rate off Death Coil to account for the RP cost. That way it wouldn't be a survivability loss to utilize Death Coil to tap into more of our AP. that would keep our low AP dps exactly the same while letting us do more DPS at higher levels of AP, when death coil does more dps/rp than rune strike.
    Unless they make it give 3 charges of blood tap, wouldn't that still be a survivability loss ?

  6. #386
    Well increase proc rate for RC and charges for Blood tap. I just meant factor in DC's rune cost into t75 talents. For example, they could balance it based on benefit/rp. Rune Strike costs 30 RP and has a 45% chance to proc RC, so to be equal Death Coil costs 40 RP and would have a 60% chance to proc. For Blood Tap, Rune Strike costs 30 RP and gives 2 charges, so to be equal Death Coil costs 40 and would give....2.6666667 charges... ok that would need some tweaking.

  7. #387
    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    11.4% expertise sounds like my dps gear (just can't get rid off all that hit/exp >_>) - my tank gear is at close to 15% with exp food.
    That's what i was asking, is there any reasoning behind getting expertise over 7.5%? Just curious if there's anything I'm missing.


    Also any of you guys have a list of which spells from ToT bosses will Dark Simulacrum work on? i watched some Jin'rokh parses and many of the top rankings had static wound dmg included.. but when i tried to dark simulacrum static burst it didn't work.

  8. #388
    Dreadlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thalenas View Post
    That's what i was asking, is there any reasoning behind getting expertise over 7.5%? Just curious if there's anything I'm missing.


    Also any of you guys have a list of which spells from ToT bosses will Dark Simulacrum work on? i watched some Jin'rokh parses and many of the top rankings had static wound dmg included.. but when i tried to dark simulacrum static burst it didn't work.
    i guess because its a dps gain while standing in front of the boss.

  9. #389
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalenas View Post
    That's what i was asking, is there any reasoning behind getting expertise over 7.5%? Just curious if there's anything I'm missing.


    Also any of you guys have a list of which spells from ToT bosses will Dark Simulacrum work on? i watched some Jin'rokh parses and many of the top rankings had static wound dmg included.. but when i tried to dark simulacrum static burst it didn't work.
    Expertise beyond 7.5% gives you more dps in the way of less parries, more Scent of Blood/Crimson Scourge/Blood Worm procs. But it's not really that useful in my opinion since Rune/Death Strike cannot be parried and we don't use Heart Strike that much, we also get enought Blood Boil and SoB procs that having more of those would translate into wasted resources... oh, and blood worms are mostly overhealing anyway.

    As for Dark Sim i can only see the following being able to be copied even though i haven't done any testing:

    Sul's Sandbolt and Mar'li's Wrath of the Loa, which are decent and it should be quite easy to snatch one of those.

    Nether Spike and Supression from the adds in heroic megaera, good luck with these ones though...

    And probably half of the horridon fight, but i'm too lazy to try there.

  10. #390
    from rigs twitter about the kill
    the only sad part of that fight: I was playing an ilvl 519 monk over my ilvl 531 DK. #dkneedsbuffs
    is it really that bad on the heroic level?

  11. #391
    Quote Originally Posted by Enosh View Post
    from rigs twitter about the kill


    is it really that bad on the heroic level?
    He used his monk on tortos even though DKs are excellent boss tanks since he needed his monk to kite bats. He may have used his monk because it was just that much better for something, not necessarily because DKs are bad for the fight. I don't see any mechanics in the dungeon journal for heroic that would put DKs at a disadvantage, so I'd bet money that he just needed the monk for either a strat or simply for the add damage monks do.
    Last edited by Reniat; 2013-04-01 at 04:40 PM.

  12. #392
    Ok I'm in a bit of a pickle. I'm a new-ish tank due to the fact that my old raid died and my new one didn't need a DPS. Now I get the basics and the tank mechanics don't cause me any issues, but there is some weird stuff going on.

    Right now both are tanks are DKs cause we've not been able to find another non-DK tank. The main issue is that despite the fact that the other tank often uses DPS trinkets and the DPS 2pc, he somehow manages to often take less damage than me.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Izonami/simple
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ron/Wye/simple

    As you can see he has both trinkets as DPS and a few other things. On Iron Qon the average hit difference between us was 16k (with me being hit harder). On Twin Consorts, he had 80 dodges and I had 40 (and this was with me using my dodge trinket!).

    I feel like I'm missing something important but no matter what I do I can't figure out what the hell is happening to cause these issues. I'd like to fix them before we get any further in progression.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-oa8kef1z4j8l8ri2/

    Our logs from tonight.

    Edit - He also massively out-damages me on fights, which isn't quite as bad but still.. confusing.
    Last edited by Izonami; 2013-04-02 at 05:51 AM.

  13. #393
    i'd like to point out that who takes more/less damage really doesn't matter. You can take less damage but be harder to heal. It all comes down to Death Strike timing. You want the be the tank that was most stable, not the one that took the least damage. Anyway you caught me between SC:II games and I could use a bit of a break, so I can go through your logs

  14. #394
    Thanks! I appreciate it.

  15. #395
    Quote Originally Posted by Izonami View Post
    Ok I'm in a bit of a pickle. I'm a new-ish tank due to the fact that my old raid died and my new one didn't need a DPS. Now I get the basics and the tank mechanics don't cause me any issues, but there is some weird stuff going on.

    Right now both are tanks are DKs cause we've not been able to find another non-DK tank. The main issue is that despite the fact that the other tank often uses DPS trinkets and the DPS 2pc, he somehow manages to often take less damage than me.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Izonami/simple
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ron/Wye/simple

    As you can see he has both trinkets as DPS and a few other things. On Iron Qon the average hit difference between us was 16k (with me being hit harder). On Twin Consorts, he had 80 dodges and I had 40 (and this was with me using my dodge trinket!).

    I feel like I'm missing something important but no matter what I do I can't figure out what the hell is happening to cause these issues. I'd like to fix them before we get any further in progression.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-oa8kef1z4j8l8ri2/

    Our logs from tonight.

    Edit - He also massively out-damages me on fights, which isn't quite as bad but still.. confusing.
    The damage taken was merely identical. I don't have time to thoroughly look over them but they look fine to me. I wouldn't compare dodges to dodges but rather total avoidance with parry included. That should give you a much better idea. Honestly, I'm surprised the numbers came out so close.

  16. #396
    Well first off you should make sure you are using fair comparisons. For example, you took more damage on Dark Animus, but that fight does not split tank damage equally, so who tanks what for longer will GREATLY affect who has more damage taken at the end of the day. Dark Animus does a lot more tank damage than the Massive Anima Golems, and you had the boss for MUCH longer than Wye did, so you're naturally going to have the most dmg taken.

    Take a look at a fight that splits damage a bit more evenly, like Iron Qon. You took less damage on Iron Qon, so everything looks like what you'd expect for 2 tanks where tank A has more gear but is using DPS trinkets and tank B with less gear but has tank trinkets.

    Now here's the important question: are there any fights where your healers have trouble healing you compared to Wye? Or is there any time where you spike harder? Spike faster? Those are the kind of self improvement questions you need to concerning yourself with, not who took less damage

  17. #397
    Really? The other tank seemed to imply that I was pretty far behind in terms of damage taken. I'd still like to work on improving my DPS but I'm sure a lot of that comes from him using partial DPS gear.

  18. #398
    Quote Originally Posted by Izonami View Post
    Really? The other tank seemed to imply that I was pretty far behind in terms of damage taken. I'd still like to work on improving my DPS but I'm sure a lot of that comes from him using partial DPS gear.
    Well there are quite a few DPS playstyle things he's doing that you could improve on. The most glaring is Soul Reaper use <35%. For example on ji-kun he had 15 soul reapers and you had 2. Don't worry about DPS right now though if you are still trying to learn the basics. Make sure you lock down your survival and then you can focus on dps

  19. #399
    Durumu feels pretty spikey. Megaera did pre-nerf but isn't too bad now. 3rd add phase on Horridon can be. The Council once in awhile.

    I think that's it. I haven't fought the final boss yet, though.

    Edit: Yeah I'm super bad at Soul Reaper as Tank. I just forget to use it among all the other stuff I focus on.

  20. #400
    Quote Originally Posted by Izonami View Post
    Edit: Yeah I'm super bad at Soul Reaper as Tank. I just forget to use it among all the other stuff I focus on.
    DPS is not your #1 priority. There's nothing wrong with focusing on learning how to time death strike and use CDs effectively and making sure those are being done correctly before moving on to your dps.

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