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  1. #781
    Balancing Avoidance and DR
    Due to Parry double dipping with SoB stacks, there is no real reason not to prefer it to dodge. The resources you gain with parryhaste (your melee speed increased after a parry) outweighs the resources lost with properly balancing DR.


    would you elaborate on this

  2. #782
    When you parry an attack, your next auto attack happens sooner. that is parryhaste. It was removed from bosses a long time ago, but still exists for players. This means than parry increase SoB generation both by the fact that you parried (the new change in 5.4) and the fact that your next auto attack will happen sooner. This means more resources, which outweighs the significantly small effects of DR on avoidance.

  3. #783
    Field Marshal TheTrueAlpha's Avatar
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    I am very curious what leads you to believe stamina is the best stat for 25M progression. With current swing timers/boss damage modifiers, there is no fight, both on heroic and normal, in which stamina is by any means necessary as a blood death knight.

  4. #784
    Maybe i should put the (until enough EH) modifier back in. I don't mean to encourage stam stacking in general for 25m, but that doesn't mean it can't be optimal. Stamina is our only passive smoothing stat, and for burst content (25H) that matters VERY much. Our whole goal for survival in 25H content is to reduce spike as much as we can, and stamina is the best stat we have for that, especially once you start putting magic damage/DoTs on top of normal melee. Think of it this way: We are at our weakest when we have no blood shield up, and because the developers aren't stupid we can't have our blood shield up 100% of the time. No matter how well you time DS, you will take a large amount of unmitigated (un-absorbed, un-avoided) attacks throughout a hard hitting fight. Our whole playstyle is around negating the bursts that come from these hits, but by retroactively "removing" it with a quick recovery DS or preventing it from happening with CDs/preemptive DS. Even with proper play though, you can't remove all of them, and the only thing you have to combat the ones that are inevitably going to get through is passive EH, which is armor and stam. You can't gem/gear for armor, so stam is the next stat.


    What makes you think stam is an inferior stat for 25H progression?

    Btw i know it's you sean lol. how's thok coming?
    Last edited by Reniat; 2013-09-28 at 10:09 AM.

  5. #785
    Hello, guys. Which weapon enchant are you using for 10man heroic? I was thinking about trying swordshattering out. Is it worthy?

  6. #786
    Field Marshal TheTrueAlpha's Avatar
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    It's coming along well, and in regards to what you said about not having 100% Blood Shield up-time, that isn't entirely true. In close review with our logs, this is obviously with the 4 piece taken into consideration, I have been averaging around a 82% blood shield up-time. And with the new 2 piece & Vial of Living Corruption, it is quite easy to maintain a 90%+ Bone Shield up-time. I just wanted to pick your brain, because at this point I am at 1M HP unbuffed and with damage modifiers haven't found myself really at threat of dying with any fights, so I wasn't really understanding the stamina. But you make a good point with it being the only reliable stat.

    I feel it is inferior personally just because of with how well the 2 piece/4 piece/CDR trinket lay out with blood DK, there is just so much added benefit to mastery/haste at the moment. With bone shield/vamp blood being on 48 second CDs & DRW effectively becoming another ERW on a 1.2 min CD, I don't see the need for a bigger pad between being alive and dead.

  7. #787
    keep in mind im using DSi as well as an avoidance build for riposte, which means my blood shield uptime is pretty poor compared to any version of a mastery build, which makes stam all that more impactful. As far as blood shield uptime goes, the only uptime that matters is while actively tanking, and even then uptime doesn't even tell half of the story. I'm 100% sure you aren't getting 82% uptime while actively tanking, and stacking shield while not tanking inflates uptime % on the bosses that matter. And if you really don't feel the need for all the extra "pad" then why go for that much mastery in the first place? Riposte is pretty potent for pushing 25H since you can pump out considerably more damage for manageable survival tradoffs.
    Last edited by Reniat; 2013-09-28 at 07:38 PM.

  8. #788
    Hey reniat, checked logs and he does have around a 80% uptime on blood shield how much of that is while actively tanking im to lazy to check

  9. #789
    It's not overall uptime that matters, it's actively tanking uptime. And even then the specific number isn't important. The logic behind stam is reducing the impact of ALL hits, not just ones you can absorb. It's the ones that get through that present danger, and even with higher uptime of blood shield (again, 80% while actively tanking a hard physical hitting bleeding edge 25H boss is just not realistic) you can't remove all the unmitigated hits from play. You will take more damage at the end of the day, but no one should be playing for TDR in 25H cutting edge progression.

  10. #790
    Field Marshal TheTrueAlpha's Avatar
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    I made one of our logs public for discussion sake. This is heroic spoils: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rpjic...?s=4699&e=5264. Bare in mind this is probably the most consistent damage fight this entire tier and highest damage intake. My up-time is 68% on this fight which is a 100% damage intake fight. Another thing to note is fights are designed to have tank swaps, so holding and building a blood shield isn't inflation necessarily. It's just part of the fight. I go into every tanking phase of tank swap fights with a 1M blood shield and a dancing rune weapon ready to cast another 2 death strikes. You can tell from this log that the numbers aren't inflated either. The bone shield numbers aren't skewed either. If you can see on the log I had a 86% bone shield up-time, but considering my side finished early, the last 30 seconds of no bone shield doesn't factor into that number, so realistically it was more around a 96%ish up-time.

  11. #791
    Spoils is a pretty poor fight to look at tank damage. The damage you actually take is pretty small. You get trucked if you stand and eat hits from an enraged warcaller, but 1)they can be de-enraged and 2) you can actually kite them since they move slower when enraged.

    That said our bone shield uptime is pretty identical (my 84.8% to your 86.1%), so even if you wanted to compare there isn't really a ton of data to support haste specifically for taking advantage of the 2pc. I did have 20% less blood shield uptime, but that is in an avoidance build as well as using Death Siphon quite frequently.

  12. #792
    at what point would you death siphon over death strike?

    its what 40%ish attack power at 150% heal so you heal for abuot 60% of your AP, and its half a death strike

    so its only worth it if DS + blood shield will be less than 120% of your vengeance which to me seems like almost never

  13. #793
    Unless you're grossly outgearing the content or the boss deals no physical damage at all that's pretty much a never.
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  14. #794
    There really isn't ever a time where you'd use death siphon instead of death strike for survival reasons. Even if you get to the point where the heal from DSi = heal + shield from DS, the fact that DS is an absorb makes it much stronger, magic damage aside. If you're trying to max damage you can weave DSi in when you have a load of vengeance, but you need to be very careful about doing so, or you risk not having a DS when you need it.

  15. #795
    Hello. I will be the third tank on Dark Shamans today: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...tasya/advanced

    I wanna do a full regem, but unsure what to gem for? I will be tanking Wavebinder Kardris. I don't have any tank gear, that is the gear I have.
    Main: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...l%C3%A8/simple
    Old Main: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Needle/simple
    LFR Hero/Alt: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...astasya/simple
    Quote Originally Posted by Zefie View Post
    Everyone who does not miss Vanilla has no heart. Whoever wishes it back has no brain.

  16. #796
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    Considering a 10 man version, you are fine, althought i would get rid of some expertise in favour of mastery.
    Also, why are you gemming for hit when you are a good amount above cap?
    You are loosing a lot of useful stats there...

  17. #797
    Quote Originally Posted by ant13 View Post
    Considering a 10 man version, you are fine, althought i would get rid of some expertise in favour of mastery.
    Also, why are you gemming for hit when you are a good amount above cap?
    You are loosing a lot of useful stats there...
    You are right, got some upgrades which put me over the hit cap My lack of dedication is because its only my alt, so I am only bringing it being the third tank - but going to change that for tonight
    Main: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...l%C3%A8/simple
    Old Main: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Needle/simple
    LFR Hero/Alt: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...astasya/simple
    Quote Originally Posted by Zefie View Post
    Everyone who does not miss Vanilla has no heart. Whoever wishes it back has no brain.

  18. #798
    I know the patch is still fairly new and last I knew Blood sims were not working fully, but from what I have seen floating around, folks were saying potentially going more heavy into parry over haste for tank dps would be better.

    I am trying to identify what (if anything) is majorly different between my 2 recent Malk kills. The only direct thing that changed was changing reforges/gems from haste heavy to more parry heavy.

    Haste Kill: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=2669&e=3005

    Parry Kill: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=6189&e=6435

    I know normal mode parsing and dps is really not that important, but it comes down to just a part of the game I enjoy min/maxing myself and doing what I can, even if it is more dps. We run 3 tanks on the fights due to our healers getting too stressed with high fatal strike buffs, so we swap @ 6 stacks. If anyone sees anything glaring on the parses or can provide more feedback on Parry(Riposte) vs Haste for tank DPS I would appreciate it

  19. #799

    Help!

    I am new to this site and was hoping I could get some pointers on my build atm... what is the new 5.4 stat priority? here is my DK's name (Garycoldman) Burning Legion, sry i guess i cannot link my armory as this is my first post. I would love some help, anything would be much appreciated. I am tanking in my guilds 10m normal progression, and doing 110K dps on average. I am working on the legendary meta and cloak, but I came back to wow about a month before 5.4 dropped so I am far behind atm. Also I find that the prot war (the other tank) in my progression 10man does about 130k and slightly under ilvl than me, she seems to have an avoidance build. again any comments and help would be great. ty

  20. #800
    Quote Originally Posted by loomis503 View Post
    I am new to this site and was hoping I could get some pointers on my build atm... what is the new 5.4 stat priority? here is my DK's name (Garycoldman) Burning Legion, sry i guess i cannot link my armory as this is my first post. I would love some help, anything would be much appreciated. I am tanking in my guilds 10m normal progression, and doing 110K dps on average. I am working on the legendary meta and cloak, but I came back to wow about a month before 5.4 dropped so I am far behind atm. Also I find that the prot war (the other tank) in my progression 10man does about 130k and slightly under ilvl than me, she seems to have an avoidance build. again any comments and help would be great. ty
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