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  1. #981
    The Lightbringer Revi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zomonk View Post
    does xal'atoh drop while having loot set for blood spec?
    It does. All 2-handers with STR drops for Death Knights (all speccs)

  2. #982
    Quote Originally Posted by Dazu View Post
    I have trouble getting threat back from my offtank which is a feral druid. I think the monk/druid threat is simply because for them a dps stat is their survival stat (crit). Meaning the more they stack for survival, the higher there dps goes etc. Whereas a DK stacking survival basically gets no dps boost from those stats (a little crit from parry etc). Also their tanking trinkets for example are often dps trinkets (monk BiS is the multistrike trinket ffs).

    As for my reasoning between haste over crit with thoks, my crit values /rates seem pretty low, which to me would seem to reduce the value of the 9% crit damage boost, whereas the haste boost would benefit all sides overall (crit dam via more attacks, more DS = more use of mastery bonus etc).
    Sorry, I was reading this guide for my new 90 DK, but I wanted to comment on this.

    As a warrior, I ran a normal raid the other night and anytime the DK taunted boss off of me, I couldn't use my dps abilities AT ALL or else I'd take the mob straight back. I cant' remember the last time I had to worry about that. I went from like 130-140k dps down to 90k dps simply because I couldn't press ANY buttons when I was off tank and just white hits kept me at 99-100% threat.

    Was the DK tank just bad or is this something that DKs are facing? I've never had this problem, but I think I've always been the undergeared tank in most cases (547ilvl) so maybe him being like 545 was that big of a difference.

  3. #983
    Quote Originally Posted by rulee View Post
    Was the DK tank just bad or is this something that DKs are facing?
    no way to tell with what you posted but chances are that he is doing something incorrect if there are some threat issues

  4. #984
    Quote Originally Posted by bals View Post
    no way to tell with what you posted but chances are that he is doing something incorrect if there are some threat issues
    This. FWIW, as a DK tank I have the opposite problem -- until I got in my current heroic progression team, I would constantly monitor my threat level closely because I risked pulling off the other tank sitting at ~ 120k DPS without vengeance. So, yeah, you would out-DPS me but not nearly enough to pose a threat to pulling back on anything but the most cheesy of fights. Thus, your co-tank had some sort of issue. Possibly just a mastery uber-alles build, which gave terrible DPS and so threat.

  5. #985
    Quick question: It's mentioned that you gain parry haste after parrying in the guide, but I can find literally no mention of it in any of the DK's skills, nor does my atk speed increase after a parry on my char pane. How exactly does this work?
    Also, how exactly does SoB double dip with Parry? No real mention of that, either.

  6. #986
    The Lightbringer Joyful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Quick question: It's mentioned that you gain parry haste after parrying in the guide, but I can find literally no mention of it in any of the DK's skills, nor does my atk speed increase after a parry on my char pane. How exactly does this work?
    Also, how exactly does SoB double dip with Parry? No real mention of that, either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reniat View Post
    Due to Parry double dipping with SoB stacks, there is no real reason not to prefer it to dodge. The resources you gain with parryhaste (your melee speed increased after a parry) outweighs the resources lost with properly balancing DR.

    After you parrying attack the time until your next melee swing is shortened, and more melee attacks means more RP and stacks SoB.

  7. #987
    Quote Originally Posted by Joyful View Post
    After you parrying attack the time until your next melee swing is shortened, and more melee attacks means more RP and stacks SoB.
    ...I'm aware what parry haste is. What I'm saying is that this isn't described anywhere on my DK's passives, abilities, and doesn't show up on my char pane :P. I'm wondering where you can see that DK's actually have parry haste, as the last boss to have that ability was Hallion in Ruby Sanctum. I haven't even heard the concept since him.

  8. #988
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    ...I'm aware what parry haste is. What I'm saying is that this isn't described anywhere on my DK's passives, abilities, and doesn't show up on my char pane :P. I'm wondering where you can see that DK's actually have parry haste, as the last boss to have that ability was Hallion in Ruby Sanctum. I haven't even heard the concept since him.
    It is a game mechanic, not a skill. You would need to inspect logs.

    Quoting SimC code since it's the most succinct description of it:
    // Parry haste mechanics: When parrying an attack, the game subtracts 40% of the player's base swing timer
    // from the time remaining on the current swing timer. However, this effect cannot reduce the current swing
    // timer to less than 20% of the base value. The game uses hasted values.
    "I have it all simmed."
    Euliat

  9. #989
    Quote Originally Posted by SSHA778 View Post
    It is a game mechanic, not a skill. You would need to inspect logs.

    Quoting SimC code since it's the most succinct description of it:
    Aha. Neat. Too bad it's gone with WoD :<.

  10. #990
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Aha. Neat. Too bad it's gone with WoD :<.
    Do you mean that parryhaste is gone, or just that stacking parry is gone? Because as far as I know it will still be there, just like we will still have parry on our DKs, we just won't have it on gear. So, like, str => parry is still a thing, etc.

  11. #991
    Quote Originally Posted by SlippyCheeze View Post
    Do you mean that parryhaste is gone, or just that stacking parry is gone? Because as far as I know it will still be there, just like we will still have parry on our DKs, we just won't have it on gear. So, like, str => parry is still a thing, etc.
    Well, guess parry haste will exist if parry exists. I was under the impression that dodge/parry would be armor from now on, though. I might have had it wrong, admittedly haven't followed the topic alot. Too much changing to bother.

  12. #992
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Also, how exactly does SoB double dip with Parry? No real mention of that, either.
    Likely means the gain from the parried hit itself (SoB procs off avoided hits) in addition to the gain from the acceleration of your next swing (and therefore your next SoB).

    I wouldn't technically call this "double-dipping," because if you remove the RP generation from avoidance, you still get the swing acceleration, and if you remove the swing acceleration, you still get the RP generation from avoidance, so the events are not coupled. Neither causes nor affects the other. Typically double-dipping is associated with coupled events. With parry in this scenario, however, this is akin to saying strength <some-number-here>-dips because it affects <some-number-of-strikes> simultaneously.
    "I have it all simmed."
    Euliat

  13. #993
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/de/forum/to...8598?page=2#26

    For all people, who are experienced in german. Had a discussion back in 5.2 how it really works, so i analyzed some logs. Additionally i found out, the parryhaste thread on Tankspot is wrong.

    TL;DR:
    It is always a flat reduce! (20%,40%,0% of weaponspeed)

    If the remaining swing timer is 40%-100% of the full swing, the whole swing is reduced by 40%.
    If the remaining swing timer is 20%-40% of the full swing, the whole swing is reduced by 20%.
    If the remaining swing timer is 0%-20% of the full swing, the whole swing is reduced by 0%.

    Per every parry, you gain 0.28 extra attacks. (0.6×0.4+0.2×0.2=0.28)
    Last edited by Cryoz; 2014-04-28 at 04:08 PM.

  14. #994
    High Overlord
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    Hi guys

    At what point does it become more efficient to take stats other than mastery as a blood dk?

    I currently have 307% blood shield and feel as though I should replace some of my mastery.

  15. #995
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruudax View Post
    Hi guys

    At what point does it become more efficient to take stats other than mastery as a blood dk?

    I currently have 307% blood shield and feel as though I should replace some of my mastery.
    That depends on many parameters, e.g. your playstyle, your raidsize, nhc/flex/hc, your healers and external cds, encounter,...

    But 307% mastery is way too much.
    Just reduce it to ~200% for beginners, go on with reducing til you reach a point, you still feel comfortable.

    You should also read some explanation:
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ing/page47#928

  16. #996
    I have to fundamentally disagree with you cryoz. I mentioned this last time you posted that. Avoidance does not work BECAUSE of mastery. The two have very little interaction, and the interaction they do have would suggest that mastery is improved by avoidance rather than vice versa (an avoided attack doesnt eat shields). You can tank in a full avoidance build with 0 mastery (which would be 50%, the base mastery).

    Last time i mentioned this you said it wasn;t the STAT, but rather the existence of our mastery that makes avoidance viable. This is still just not true. The most important interaction between DS and avoidance is actually the heal. Obviously mastery is good for survival, im not saying otherwise, but there is simply no relationship between avoidance and mastery that MAKES one or the other viable. We need both to function, but that doesnt mean you should look at avoidance builds in terms of how much mastery you need to make the avoidance work, but rather how much mastery you need to be stable with no other factors needed.

    Also im back from like a 3 month hiatus from forums. Sup.

  17. #997
    Good to have you back, Reniat.

    Mastery is kinda iffy especially if you're in a 10man guild. I started going for parry when I got over 240% raidbuffed, and most bosses on hc never get through my blood shield. Of course, things are different for say, Nazgrim, Thok and Garrosh for example, but even then if you reach the breakpoint for DS base heal your shield with proper timing will cap quite easily. I've no math to give, I suck at it. All I have is my own experiences while tanking. 200% UB mastery has worked so well for me personally that healers have said that I've been by far the easiest tank to heal on progress, and we had a warrior and a paladin with superior gear co-tanking.

    You also didn't specify if you have that mastery buffed or not, but I'd say that's way too much mastery. Parry is great for avoidance and also is a ever-so-slight dps and survivability boost due to parry haste and therefore increased SoB procs.

  18. #998
    High Overlord
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    Hi guys and thanks for the replies.

    I have the 307% raid buffed and I don't really know what other stats too choose. Parry/dodge has been suggested but hasn't it kind of been an all or nothing stat? I know the addition of riposte and SoB change have made it more viable but I find myself already close to the gcd and wouldn't really want to waste the resources that would be generated. I have been thinking about going for more stamina but even if I changed all my gems I would only gain around 70k for the loss of 70% mastery, is 70k really worth it in a 1.1 mill health pool ?

  19. #999
    switch to parry.
    it's not an all or nothing stat.

  20. #1000
    Hey there,

    currently progressing on Spoils HC 10m, I am still trying to figure out how my DK really works. I started out with focussing on Mastery which was working fine but I had the impression that I am lacking in effectivness, especially by not providing enough Tank DPS and by capping Bloodshield too many times. 2 weeks ago, I switched to avoidance (dropping my buffed mastery from 270 to ~200%) and my DPS did increase nicely. I had no issues with tanking any of the HC bosses so far and I do not require any external CDs when tanking Nazgrim either.

    Tanking spoils now, I really like the dps gain from all those adds that I am tanking but it seems that I am always taking the most damage, especially compared to the other tank (a monk, ~7 ilvls higher than I am). Some of our healers have said, that I require far more healing as well. I have been asked to go back to full mastery (because "mastery > all"..) but I am not really sure that this would change too much in terms of survivability but would drop my dps instead. But just for the sake of comparison, I changed my gems and am back to 260% mastery now, curious to see how this works in the raid id today.

    Long story short, do you see anything from my armory or logs below that I am doing wrong and thus explains the issues described above? I think I am not really timing my DS correctly (or probably not at all) and am just spamming them. Is there something else I am missing? I can probably improve on CD usage a lot as well.

    Thanks a lot for any input and recommendations.

    Armory: EU Mal'Ganis - Ruufiyo

    Logs: Just realized that I am not allowed to post links just yet but I am more than happy to provide some details from the logs if you let me know what #s would be interesting for you. (I.e. on our 11 spoils tries (switching sides with the other tank after a couple of tries) I took 912m dmg while the other tank (Warrior, about the same ilvl) took 700m)
    Last edited by ruufiyo; 2014-05-14 at 11:34 AM.

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