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  1. #1

    PvE players put too much hope into Guild Wars 2 ?

    Firstly, I would just like to say that this isn't meant to offend or cause any kind of bad feeling. I just want to put something out there and see what you guys think.

    I was really hyped for GW2, I mean really. The promise of dynamic events, the eradication of the "Holy Trinity" and the 8x3 Explorable mode dungeons seemed almost too good to be true. I devoured article after article and waited for this great game to be released with hopes of it being the next big thing.

    However, a couple days back, I realised that perhaps this game could be missing something.

    The problem was I bought into the hype that was being stirred up by many people. They compared GW2 to other popular mmos and claimed that this would now be the top dog and keep them entertained for years to come, expansion after expansion. They made fun of the supposed "gear treadmill" that other games use and ridiculed the "carrot on a stick" approach to mmos.

    All that got me thinking though: what is it that I enjoyed in an mmo? I liked adventuring with friends, getting more powerful and clearing content. I loved that feeling of gaining a new weapon that obliterated the stats of my old one and the thrill of pushing my damage to the absolute maximum.

    Then I thought about GW2. What you do from the very first DE is essentially the end game content. I would still be clearing content with explorable dungeons but after putting in all the effort where would my powerful weapon be? How would my character become more powerful and my dps soar? (essentially the dps role is different in GW2).

    I realised I wasn't interested in purely cosmetic loot, for me, armour appearences are merely a bonus to the awesome stats that come with them.

    The "gear treadmill"/"carrot on a stick" are incentives to play. People say they provide an illusion of fun and progress; however, in this case, it is not an illusion if you feel and see said effects ( I see my damage soar and I feel the fun). I knew that once I clear through the explorable modes I'd be done with the game totally and utterly. Going back to do old DE's (even if I am scaled) doesn't provide me with any progress.

    Getting the "carrot" throughout the whole game will get tiresome quite quickly. Sadly I realised GW2 won't have the PvE experience I was hoping for.

    My final point is this though: us mmos fans created this problem (well, a few of us). We compared GW2 to a game that was totally different and warped the expectations we should have had.

    Back in '06 I didn't look at TES 4 and compare it to an mmo, neither did I do that for FF13 when it came out.

    I saw people that loved raiding talking about GW2 and saying "End game is gonna be so awesome, downing bosses in explorable mode will keep us busy for months! Can't wait to see the armour sets" It's sad because these people will waste their money and be left with a bad taste in their mouths after geting the real GW2 (the GW2 we should have been thinking about instead of trying to make it something it's not).

    GW2 will be fun to play for a month and then I'll leave and come back maybe a bit later on. However, it will not quench the the thirst of those looking for an experience that is already out there. We have a game that gives us that fix.

    What GW2 will do is provide a fun experience that will last as long as any console game out there. I should have looked at it from that perspective instead of trying to make it into something it's not and hasn't tried to be...

  2. #2
    TBH from all the negatives on all the forums on MMOC, I would have to say all MMOs are in a dire position right now. You have to blame wow for making everything so dumbed down and the other MMOs followed, I wish these companies made there competitive MMOs based off the TBC model with modern day improvements.

    Don't get me wrong I am loving guilds wars 2 and so if my gf, so I can't say when we will get bored of it but @OP if you looking for a MMO thats providing challenging endgame content then you should look at rift, esp with the new storm legion xpac coming out.
    Last edited by ShadowCrafter; 2012-08-27 at 02:05 PM.

  3. #3
    You're going to get flamed into oblivion by people preaching "Go back to WoW!" but I'm inclined to agree.

    The majority of people don't care for the appearance of their items over stats and if that was the case WoW's art team would have been fired in The Burning Crusade. I am personally somebody who does prefer looks over statistics but I do believe I am amongst the minority. People like to chase stats, to feel more powerful, not to feel more fabulous. Transmogrification would have been much more used (barely anybody uses it bar roleplayers and people dressing their elves like strippers once the novelty of 4.3 wore off) and requested if that was the case.

    It's a nice idea in theory, I just doubt it will keep people around. I realise some fanboy is going to whine how GW2 doesn't "need" subscribers but you still need people to do content with.
    Last edited by CHALET; 2012-08-27 at 02:07 PM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by CHALET View Post
    You're going to get flamed into oblivion by people preaching "Go back to WoW!" but I'm inclined to agree.

    The majority of people don't care for the appearance of their items over stats and if that was the case WoW's art team would have been fired in The Burning Crusade. I am personally somebody who does prefer looks over statistics but I do believe I am amongst the minority. People like to chase stats, to feel more powerful, not to feel more fabulous.
    So why can't we have better looks and better stats? That's how pretty much all MMOs operate. You see a character in the creation screen that looks pimped out, and you get excited. Then your guy starts off looking like a peasant. Well, it's motivation. But if your character never increased in power after all the time you spent in the game, you would feel unsatisfied.

  5. #5
    Why can't people just hold their opinion to their self? I don't care if you don't like the game tbh. All you accomplish with this is negative publicity for new players.
    I like GW2 and I believe if you play it, like normal people would for 2-3 hours per day you will use a long time to get to lvl 80 and do everything. You forget about patches, which may or may not introduce better gear, dungeons, areas etc etc.
    If you want to leave, fine, but do it silently, because many of us will play it for a long time.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowCrafter View Post
    TBH from all the negatives on all the forums on MMOC, I would have to say all MMOs are in a dire position right now. You have to blame wow for making everything so dumbed down and the other MMOs followed, I wish these companies made there competitive MMOs based off the TBC model with modern day improvements.

    Don't get me wrong I am loving guilds wars 2 and so if my gf, so I can't say when we will get bored of it but @OP if you looking for a MMO thats providing challenging endgame content then you should look at rift, esp with the new storm legion xpac coming out.
    Before your edit, I was about to say, have you looked at Rift? It's almost exactly what you are looking for.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Speedlance View Post
    Why can't people just hold their opinion to their self? I don't care if you don't like the game tbh. All you accomplish with this is negative publicity for new players.
    I like GW2 and I believe if you play it, like normal people would for 2-3 hours per day you will use a long time to get to lvl 80 and do everything. You forget about patches, which may or may not introduce better gear, dungeons, areas etc etc.
    If you want to leave, fine, but do it silently, because many of us will play it for a long time.
    I have to agree here, if it makes the wow players feel any better GW2 is catering to a different playerbase, it's not going to affect wow subs at all. Games that will pull away time from wow will be future releases like Dota 2 imo.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Speedlance View Post
    Why can't people just hold their opinion to their self? I don't care if you don't like the game tbh. All you accomplish with this is negative publicity for new players.
    I like GW2 and I believe if you play it, like normal people would for 2-3 hours per day you will use a long time to get to lvl 80 and do everything. You forget about patches, which may or may not introduce better gear, dungeons, areas etc etc.
    If you want to leave, fine, but do it silently, because many of us will play it for a long time.
    So, you are saying that GW2 shouldn't be looked at as a replacement game to a traditional MMO? You are saying it should be looked at as some super casual game that you fire up when you are bored of everything else?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by fangless View Post
    So why can't we have better looks and better stats? That's how pretty much all MMOs operate. You see a character in the creation screen that looks pimped out, and you get excited. Then your guy starts off looking like a peasant. Well, it's motivation. But if your character never increased in power after all the time you spent in the game, you would feel unsatisfied.
    Because GW2 operates off "better looks, not better stats". It sounds nice on paper but when you put it onto paper people hardly go after gear so they can look good around the cities whilst they alt-tab.

  10. #10
    Herald of the Titans Ynna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedlance View Post
    Why can't people just hold their opinion to their self? I don't care if you don't like the game to be honest. All you accomplish with this is negative publicity for new players.
    Opinion is what forums (and discussion in general) is made of. You can't shut down negative opinion (or you'd have to shut down positive as well) and criticism leads to a better informed decision by the potential buyer.
    Some criticism is undeserved or overly emotional, but you can't just shut it down.
    Retired Holy Priest
    As a rule, I try to act on the internet as I would in real life. If I have offended you, feel free to point it out. Unless I meant to offend you, I will probably apologize.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by CHALET View Post
    You're going to get flamed into oblivion by people preaching "Go back to WoW!" but I'm inclined to agree.

    The majority of people don't care for the appearance of their items over stats and if that was the case WoW's art team would have been fired in The Burning Crusade. I am personally somebody who does prefer looks over statistics but I do believe I am amongst the minority. People like to chase stats, to feel more powerful, not to feel more fabulous. Transmogrification would have been much more used (barely anybody uses it bar roleplayers and people dressing their elves like strippers once the novelty of 4.3 wore off) and requested if that was the case.

    It's a nice idea in theory, I just doubt it will keep people around. I realise some fanboy is going to whine how GW2 doesn't "need" subscribers but you still need people to do content with.
    The only game u going to feel more powerful in PVE gear is rift now, because not everyone is capable of doing the current endgame content. Burning crusade and even ulduar to a degree was the last time you felt this way in wow. So it really only leaves rift for that type of progression and feeling like a hero.
    Last edited by ShadowCrafter; 2012-08-27 at 02:13 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowCrafter View Post
    The only game u going to feel more powerful in PVE gear is rift now, because not everyone is capable of doing the current endgame content. Burning crusade and even ulduar to a degree was the last time you felt this way in wow. So it really only leaves rift for that type of progression and feeling like a hero.
    I'm fairly certain he didn't mean it in a special snow-flake type way. I'm pretty sure he meant it in a "I want to FEEL more powerful after getting better stats".

  13. #13
    I agree that anyone going into Guild Wars with the intention of making it their PvE MMO is going to be very disappointed. Cosmetic gear just isn't enough of an incentive for sustainable PvE play, and the combat functionality is absolutely not tailored (long-term) for anything outside of PvP situations at all.

    Thankfully I never went into the game with any expectations of it being awesome in this area, I've got Pandaria ready to cater to all of my end game PvE needs, and Guild Wars for a taste of something a little different and lots of PvP fun. ^^

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowCrafter View Post
    I have to agree here, if it makes the wow players feel any better GW2 is catering to a different playerbase, it's not going to affect wow subs at all. Games that will pull away time from wow will be future releases like Dota 2 imo.
    I didn't mention what mmo I play. Also forums are intended for discussions
    Last edited by Morrowind; 2012-08-27 at 02:23 PM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowCrafter View Post
    The only game u going to feel more powerful in PVE gear is rift now, because not everyone is capable of doing the current endgame content. Burning crusade and even ulduar to a degree was the last time you felt this way in wow. So it really only leaves rift for that type of progression and feeling like a hero.
    To a certain degree I agree with this comment. HC modes aside when was the last time gear or lack of prevented players from doing content in WoW? Normal mode bosses have fell down like dominoes before the playerbase has completely upgraded their gear for years now. Whether or not this is a good or a bad thing is a different argument, but it makes me wonder why players hold onto the stat progression model so vehemently when those stats havnt really had a bearing on actual gameplay in a long while. It's almost vanity gear in it's own way, except with big numbers instead of visuals. Now I'm looking forward to MoP as much as the next guy, but I've also wanted the genre to have a different gear model for ages especially when my gameplay (I havnt HC raided since the end of WotLK) isnt affected by the tiered stat boosts except I get to kill mobs a bit faster (which I don't know if is a good thing in the long run or not).
    Last edited by madrox; 2012-08-27 at 02:24 PM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by alturic View Post
    I'm fairly certain he didn't mean it in a special snow-flake type way. I'm pretty sure he meant it in a "I want to FEEL more powerful after getting better stats".
    Why do you need powerful stats when you can clear the content with just the ilvl needed for LFR. I can understand in BC where you needed more powerful gear as a tool to progress on content. Now you get gear to do the same content at a higher setting.
    Last edited by ShadowCrafter; 2012-08-27 at 02:24 PM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowCrafter View Post
    Why do you need powerful stats when you can clear the content with just the ilvl needed for LFR. I can understand in BC where you needed more powerful gear as a tool to progress on content. Now you get gear to do the same content at a higher setting.
    Well, for me as an example, getting better stats, higher stats, etc makes you fulfill your "role" better and yes I know there's pretty much only the DPS role in GW2. So basically, getting better stats, higher stats in GW2 people like to feel they are "progressing" in terms of seeing higher numbers popping up on their screen, etc.

  18. #18
    I don't know how much the OP played (or other people for that matter), but I feel a lot more powerful at 15 than I did at 5... going back to a lower zone and getting down-scaled I pretty much one-shot everything; that's from the stats on the gear, the small tweaks I did myself (+Power "gems"), and of course the slight increase from traits/skills that make a good synergy.

    Also OP, I can assure you that at no point ever did your new weapon "obliterate" the stats on your old weapon unless you change it once in a blue moon (or 2-3 tiers later). The upgrades I've had experience with are minute; not enough to stand out on their own (sometimes not at all), but between all items it adds up. Guess what, GW2 is the same.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Ærion View Post
    I don't know how much the OP played (or other people for that matter), but I feel a lot more powerful at 15 than I did at 5... going back to a lower zone and getting down-scaled I pretty much one-shot everything; that's from the stats on the gear, the small tweaks I did myself (+Power "gems"), and of course the slight increase from traits/skills that make a good synergy.

    Also OP, I can assure you that at no point ever did your new weapon "obliterate" the stats on your old weapon unless you change it once in a blue moon (or 2-3 tiers later). The upgrades I've had experience with are minute; not enough to stand out on their own (sometimes not at all), but between all items it adds up. Guess what, GW2 is the same.
    The developers themselves have stated that GW2 is avoiding gear being so important statwise. There is no epic loot or tier sets like we've seen before. Also if you are one-shotting everything in down-scaled zones then anet have failed to deliver what they promised, which is something I doubt.

  20. #20
    Well, first of all, we all have no idea what kind of content end-game (read high-level) areas will include and how difficult it will be. A bunch of guys at GW2guru who already reached level 80 say that there is tons of PVE content after you reach 80. Let's just wait and see.

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