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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by mafao View Post
    Well, first of all, we all have no idea what kind of content end-game (read high-level) areas will include and how difficult it will be. A bunch of guys at GW2guru who already reached level 80 say that there is tons of PVE content after you reach 80. Let's just wait and see.
    I'll have to disagree. We do know what the "end game" will be like because anet have commented many times on what they want players to do at max level.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Morrowind View Post
    The developers themselves have stated that GW2 is avoiding gear being so important statwise. There is no epic loot or tier sets like we've seen before. Also if you are one-shotting everything in down-scaled zones then anet have failed to deliver what they promised, which is something I doubt.
    Doubt all you wish, your mind is made up, your judgement cast.

    Play the game or not, it makes no difference; your presence is irrelevant. Neither, I believe, is the presence of everyone else like you that expect one thing and then make a fuss (varying degrees thereof) when they don't get what they believe they want, and promptly decide they don't like it.

    Everyone else will continue playing it and finding their own enjoyment.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Ærion View Post
    Doubt all you wish, your mind is made up, your judgement cast.

    Play the game or not, it makes no difference; your presence is irrelevant. Neither, I believe, is the presence of everyone else like you that expect one thing and then make a fuss (varying degrees thereof) when they don't get what they believe they want, and promptly decide they don't like it.

    Everyone else will continue playing it and finding their own enjoyment.
    I just made a statement based off fact that counter acted your statement. Yet you haven't come back with a relevant point in the discussion.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Ærion View Post
    Doubt all you wish, your mind is made up, your judgement cast.

    Play the game or not, it makes no difference; your presence is irrelevant. Neither, I believe, is the presence of everyone else like you that expect one thing and then make a fuss (varying degrees thereof) when they don't get what they believe they want, and promptly decide they don't like it.

    Everyone else will continue playing it and finding their own enjoyment.
    Well said, I am also loving GW2 along with the Misses and I can't pass judgement on endgame until we get there, maybe others should reserve judgement on endgame until they experience it. Feel free to comment on levelling and pvp ofc.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowCrafter View Post
    Well said, I am also loving GW2 along with the Misses and I can't pass judgement on endgame until we get there, maybe others should reserve judgement on endgame until they experience it. Feel free to comment on levelling and pvp ofc.
    Anet have told us what endgame pve will consist of. There is no endgame as such: you get 8x3 explorable dungeons and can go back to revisit content at a downscaled power level. So you see we can discuss it.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Morrowind View Post
    Anet have told us what endgame pve will consist of. There is no endgame as such: you get 8x3 explorable dungeons and can go back to revisit content at a downscaled power level. So you see we can discuss it.
    Live it before discussing it imo. Tell me what MMO are you currently playing alongside gw2?

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowCrafter View Post
    Live it before discussing it imo. Tell me what MMO are you currently playing alongside gw2?
    WoW. However, I don't want to make that the focal point of the thread.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Morrowind View Post
    Anet have told us what endgame pve will consist of. There is no endgame as such: you get 8x3 explorable dungeons and can go back to revisit content at a downscaled power level. So you see we can discuss it.
    How about getting your own experience on matters and not taking what you're being "told" as fact? It seems to me you don't like it for the simple fact that the devs said something and you blindly believe them. In the interest of civility I shall not make a comparison to religion.

    What I've said earlier, about easily dispatching lower-level enemies because of stats, is based entirely off of experience, my own experience; your "fact" is based off of an old statement that you consider absolute and immutable law.

    Honestly, I don't know why I even bother... think I'll just stop now for my own mental sanity.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Ærion View Post
    How about getting your own experience on matters and not taking what you're being "told" as fact? It seems to me you don't like it for the simple fact that the devs said something and you blindly believe them. In the interest of civility I shall not make a comparison to religion.

    What I've said earlier, about easily dispatching lower-level enemies because of stats, is based entirely off of experience, my own experience; your "fact" is based off of an old statement that you consider absolute and immutable law.

    Honestly, I don't know why I even bother... think I'll just stop now for my own mental sanity.
    When you're told something by the developers of the game (regarding what they want to do with said game) you can believe it.

  10. #30
    The Lightbringer jvbastel's Avatar
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    They also said there will be an 80+ area with elite events that will take some serious coordination, multiple capture nodes which grant buffs (think aion) with an everlasting battle against the orrian armies.
    Monk, I need a monk!!!

  11. #31
    I am hoping that is not the case, but something that concerns me in GW2 is the so-called "lack of endgame". One of the examples being the absence of raids.

    I don´t know if GW2 really has this problem, I am waiting to see and hoping my concern is unfounded.

    But one of the things that made SWTOR sink was this. They put all to much effort in the leveling experience, with all the amazing voice-over and such. And tehn people started to reach max level and started to get bored. And then they started to leave. All in all, SWTOR was a massive RPG, not a MMO.

    The thing is, no MMO can survive without some kind of endgame, be it raiding, PVP, gear progression, making you look beter, etc. The RPG part pretty much ends after you reach max level, barring some quests you might want t orevisit.

    I am hoping GW2 does have some endgame, even if different fom what we know now.

  12. #32
    Players in general whatever they like to do seem to always put too much hope into new games or games going into beta testing. Everybody thinks each new game will or should just blow the lid off of the gaming industry and reinvent fire, the wheel and sliced bread all in one. If ppl would only do some research on their own and check out features and think about why they will or wont like them, they would be in a much better and reality based place. Instead ppl get swept up in hype from forums and things of that nature and expect whatever new game to be better then all the previous ones in every way.
    Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before... He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. -Kurt Vonnegut, "Cat's Cradle"
    "Not everything on the internet is true." -- Abraham Lincoln
    Good is the enemy of great.

  13. #33
    The Community in general has done itself no favor when comparing GW2 with traditional MMOs.

    Guild Wars 2 is 50% WoW, 30% Diablo III and 20% Battlefield 3.

    People have been thinking about it in a flawed fashion for too long. People need to think about Battlefield 3 more than they need to think about WoW when considering the longevity of the game. Just like people play BF3 beyond level 50 (where you have all the unlocks) they will play Guild Wars 2 as well. Not because of character progression, but because the game-play itself is fun.

    At least that's what ANet has been going for.

    The fact that GW2 gets compared with classic MMOs is doing both sides no favors.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Madruga View Post
    I am hoping that is not the case, but something that concerns me in GW2 is the so-called "lack of endgame". One of the examples being the absence of raids.

    I don´t know if GW2 really has this problem, I am waiting to see and hoping my concern is unfounded.

    But one of the things that made SWTOR sink was this. They put all to much effort in the leveling experience, with all the amazing voice-over and such. And tehn people started to reach max level and started to get bored. And then they started to leave. All in all, SWTOR was a massive RPG, not a MMO.

    The thing is, no MMO can survive without some kind of endgame, be it raiding, PVP, gear progression, making you look beter, etc. The RPG part pretty much ends after you reach max level, barring some quests you might want t orevisit.

    I am hoping GW2 does have some endgame, even if different fom what we know now.
    Its not a game about raids or anything like that. Ppl blindly starting to play the game and expecting features from other games are going to get a rude awakening. Far too many assumptions are made by ppl rather then looking up what a game actually has for features and set up. This is why the bubble bursts so hard and fast for so many players on other games. Then instead of realizing they assumed to much and expected features that were never going to be in place, they blame the game.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-27 at 08:17 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Crowe View Post
    The Community in general has done itself no favor when comparing GW2 with traditional MMOs.

    Guild Wars 2 is 50% WoW, 30% Diablo III and 20% Battlefield 3.

    People have been thinking about it in a flawed fashion for too long. People need to think about Battlefield 3 more than they need to think about WoW when considering the longevity of the game. Just like people play BF3 beyond level 50 (where you have all the unlocks) they will play Guild Wars 2 as well. Not because of character progression, but because the game-play itself is fun.

    At least that's what ANet has been going for.

    The fact that GW2 gets compared with classic MMOs is doing both sides no favors.
    This is just people jumping to conclusions. This is no different then somebody that plays baseball figuring they will try out hockey because its a sport and they like sports, then being confused why you need skates and play on ice. People by into hype with little to no knowledge of a product, then they blame the product for things it never promised.
    Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before... He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. -Kurt Vonnegut, "Cat's Cradle"
    "Not everything on the internet is true." -- Abraham Lincoln
    Good is the enemy of great.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Morrowind View Post
    The "gear treadmill"/"carrot on a stick" are incentives to play.
    The whole idea of "gear treadmill" and "the holy trinity" being a bad thing is a complete moronic notion to begin with. There's nothing "wrong" with collecting and upgrading gear and there's nothing bad about having a thought-out system of classes and functions that strategically tie into each other. It's a good and fun system that serves a purpose.

    One has to understand where all this anti-"trinity" babble and what not originates from. It comes from players that are completely burnt out on MMOs, but fail to realize they just simply need to step back for a while because they're spending too much time of their lives playing goddamn video games. It sounds polemical and provocative, but really, it's just the way it is.

    There's nothing wrong with a fun and established game concept. It's like suddenly starting to preach how the concept of having two goals on opposite ends of a soccer field is stale, uninnovative and obsolete, or how just isn't acceptable for a modern Super Mario game to jump onto your enemies' heads.

    It's a typical behavior for dedicated gamers. They're very anal, very analytic towards the games they play, but very unaware of themselves and how they respond habitually and emotionally. People are obsessed with over-analyzing things, looking for flaws and pinpointing why things aren't right or aren't as good as they used to be, and totally miss the fact that mostly it's just simply themselves.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kayhos View Post
    every video game has gamey aspects to it

  16. #36
    My final point is this though: us mmos fans created this problem (well, a few of us). We compared GW2 to a game that was totally different and warped the expectations we should have had.
    That's exactly the problem: Blizzard, meaning WoW (and WoW clones) and currently Diablo 3, are made to be addictive, not fun. When MMO players see a new MMO game, they firstly look for a reason to play the game 20 hours per day. They don't look for improvements, they look similarities.

    Just look at all the "no end game! /cry" about GW2. People ask for a reason to play the dungeons more than once because "having fun" is not good enough. How insane is that? I mean... I know people that played FF7 or Chrono Trigger 100% run a thousand times just because the games are good, and now Arena Net has to give them something rather than a good challenge or they won't play the game? I'll say again, that's insane!

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Morrowind View Post
    I'll have to disagree. We do know what the "end game" will be like because anet have commented many times on what they want players to do at max level.
    Well, you could imagine a huge DE with a raid-like difficulty which cannot be defeated without major coordination. Is that 'endgame" enough for you? Your just say "endgame is DE, so its meh', but do we actually know what kind of DEs we are talking about?

  18. #38
    it is not an illusion if you feel and see said effects ( I see my damage soar and I feel the fun)
    I guess I sorta get this, but not really. The point of a game SHOULD be that it's fun to play, not that it's only enjoyable because an integer that pops up on your screen has 4 digits instead of 3. It's like I tell people, if progression, bigger numbers, "getting stronger" is all that matters to people, just load up ProgressQuest and watch it run. It'll do the same thing for you, without costing money, time or effort.

  19. #39
    You can google "random rewards schedule" and see how the WoW loot system is used to train pets. Don't worship the random drop system, please.

  20. #40
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    I think many people haven't played end game GW1 to see how Anet progresses pve content without increasing level caps or gear stats. GW1 has survived 7+ years without a level cap increase or stat increase, and here is how they did it, Rep grinds.

    With each content release they added a new faction(s) that either gave you powerful new pve spells, or buffs that would increase your power when fighting minions of the opposing group the content was based upon as you increased your reputation with the friendly faction. For instance, in the EotN expansion you fought against the Destroyers, the Deldrimor Dwarves faction provided a buff that increased your damage and and provided a damage reduction while fighting Destroyers, and with each faction level the buff increased. So at the beginning of the expansion the first time you face the Destroyers on normal mode they were quite a challenge, as you progressed through the content they became easier and easier to kill (progression!) until you got to the point were you could start to handle them on hard mode. When the next content is released, instead of having to reset the whole game (which has proven to work so well for WoW and other gear based progression MMO's). You simply add new bad guys and a faction to deal with them and sell shiny new sets of stat neutral PvE gear, instead of rebalancing the entire game (including PvP) to scale up the PvE game.

    Whether it Anet's system is better or than a gear based progression system, I'll leave to your own judgement, but to me it's just a different way to progress, and allows Anet to quickly add content without redesigning the game every few years, which is probably why GW1 has lasted so long.

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