Tuesday stat weightings

[Hayturr]

Anybody have some insight on how the stat weightings for each spec might be changing come the patch on Tuesday?

[Deleted]

Well, nothing has been changed mechanically, really... So I doubt anythings changed. Not sure whether Sub might actually want to stack mastery now instead of crit. Apart from that assassination and Combat will probably stay the same.

[Deleted]

Expertise is now also giving hit/spell hit, so you'll definitely want to reforge.

And rogues energy regen is as slow as shit compared to what you are used to, so you might want to put something into haste.

[Wow]

Probably be a safe bet to reforge sub to combat's live ep's as they will be very similar now with mastery maybe little better for sub than combat. Assassination should be the same overall other than maybe wanting exp cap now because of dispatch procs.

We have no reason to care about spell hit poisons are capped with 7.5% hit now. Exp will only be wanted for the - dodge just like live for rogues.

[Deleted]

Assassination will probably want to go for the Expertise cap now, I'd imagine. That's a rather big change, actually.

[DerSenf]

I think this question kind of fits into this topic:
With the large crit loss on Ambush and Backstab (5% from HaT also go away?), will 2pt12 still be the way to go? At least for those 4 weeks.

[Wow]

Assassination will probably want to go for the Expertise cap now, I'd imagine. That's a rather big change, actually.

If you have the legendaries you already have exp cap as assassination so not that much change for some.

[Sesshou]

Sub will most likely want spell hit cap (though sounds like that is trivial). As for 2pt12, I'd bet that it is no longer worth it, at least over 410 stuff as that is a lot of stats and it isn't like the 4pt13 is useless either. Also the lack of 2pt12 and the backstab glyph and backstab only costing 35 energy (meaning a lot more finishers) I'd bet will put mastery over crit.

I don't see why combat would change much (though reforging to hit the new caps and stuff due to how it changed and the loss of 6% hit from talents).

Edit: Anyone know the exact expertise and hit rating we need for cap at 85?

[nextormento]

Edit: Anyone know the exact expertise and hit rating we need for cap at 85?

769 (666 with hit/exp racials). Also, while a player with 7.5% exp and hit will be effectively at the spell cap, there's no rogue spell benefiting from spell hit mechanics.

[Deleted]

769 (666 with hit/exp racials). Also, while a player with 7.5% exp and hit will be effectively at the spell cap, there's no rogue spell benefiting from spell hit mechanics.

Aren't poisons considered spells?

[shadowboy]

Assassination will likely want expertise cap, but not because of spell hit. It's because of a variety of other reasons (increased weapon damage, blindside procs, poison procs, etc).

[nextormento]

Aren't poisons considered spells?

They won't once 5.x goes live.

[soliddevil]

Until MoP is released, stats weights will "stay the same", expect for the 7.5% hit/exp cap. Rougt EP weights for lvl85 assassination can be found @ EJ

Source: http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t126898-...1/#post2186055

1. yellow_hit: 3.00
2. agi: 2.99
3. mastery: 2.24
4. dodge_exp: 1.81
5. haste: 1.52
6. crit: 1.29
7. white_hit: 1.08
8. str: 1.05

These are the EP weights I'm getting for a lvl85 assassination rogue in a reasonably close to BiS gear. Hit to the cap, agility and mastery remain as the top stats; expertise caping is indeed a lot more attractive (and possibly unavoidable in current itemization). Crit, however, is not taking any significant lead: the 200% poison crits compensates for the loss of Puncturing Wounds and the Glyph of Backstab.

Take them with a spoonful of salt: while we have better multi-level support, I'm not really looking much at levels other than 90. Development is still ongoing, so they're bound to change, but at this point I don't expect to find anything major that would turn the table upside down. Also note that those don't look *anything* like the EPs we'll have at lvl90.

---------- Post added 2012-08-27 at 04:24 AM ----------

Aren't poisons considered spells?

Not come Tuesday for the US and Wednesday for EU. The poison cap will be included in the melee hit cap.

EDIT: Corrected contradiction in regards to expertise effecting poisons, more about it in the posts below.

[shadowboy]

Not come Tuesday for the US and Wednesday for EU. The poison cap(s) will be included in the melee hit/exp cap.

Poison hit is only covered by melee hit. Expertise has no effect on the poison attack table (outside of its effect on the melee attack that triggered the poison proc). If you run 3% hit and 6% expertise, your poisons will miss 4.5% of the time.

[soliddevil]

Poison hit is only covered by melee hit. Expertise has no effect on the poison attack table (outside of its effect on the melee attack that triggered the poison proc). If you run 3% hit and 6% expertise, your poisons will miss 4.5% of the time.

I guess read this wrong then...

Hit and spell hit will no longer be separate stats. The hit stat negates melee miss and spell miss.
Expertise will negate dodge and spell miss, then parry.

Source: http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2...-stat-changes/

Since it states in the crit section:

Rogue poisons will also use the melee hit chance.

More about it:

As far as I have seen they are using the special hit cap and do not glance and can't be dodged if the original attack hit. Doing dps testing on the new dummies with only 7.7% hit and 2.2% exp with out a single miss and have yet to encounter a dodge World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis.

This is a log with both hit and expertise above the 7.5% cap World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

This log is from when the dummies could parry and block from behind with 7.7% hit and 2.5%exp. World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

I will need to make a log for being under the 7.5% hit cap to confirm if poisons will miss then but there is a post here from Madsushi at 85 hitting the 93 raiders dummy http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t126898-...all_specs/p30/ and only getting misses.

Source: http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t130412-...3/#post2184401

I contradicted myself I realize now.

[Coilwork]

I wonder if sub still holds with their values for this patch. We lost 60% crit from ambush, 30% from backstab which is quite huge and pushed the EP value of crit.
Since we don't have that now, will we go mastery instead since it scales really well? Haste is always good for us though and exp/hit cap is ofc a must. (Might negate expertise but i like a fluid rotation ayway)

[Deleted]

Keep in mind that without the deadly poison ramp up, the fact is now has a procs per minute system and the changes to Combat Potency Combat Rogues will once again be able to use 2 slow weapons.

[Carp The Fish]

To my knowledge, Subtlety will switch from Crit to Mastery with 5.0.4. The added crit talents are gone, meaning Backstab crits will be tied to your actual crit rating (meaning there are a lot fewer, under 50% unless you crit-stack and ignore all other stats). At that point, Mastery will be more favorable; not only has the base mastery been buffed (28% instead of 20%, I think), but it's now easier to hit the mastery ratings where it becomes a valuable stat (35%+).

The thing I'm curious about is the "poisons aren't spells anymore" talk. Wouldn't it not matter since all 3 specs are going to want 7.50% hit and 7.50% expertise (Yellow Hit and Dodge Expertise cap, respectively) anyways?

EDIT: Also, is Combat going to want dual-No'kaleds instead of the legendaries because of the Combat Potency change, or...?

[Deleted]

EDIT: Also, is Combat going to want dual-No'kaleds instead of the legendaries because of the Combat Potency change, or...?

We had someone test it out and went through his logs here, on the rogue forums. And both slow/slow and slow/fast seemed to be about equal. Whether there's a clear theoretical victor, I don't know yet, but it almost seems like they've simply made it a choice.

For extended fights the daggers will likely still pull ahead. If you're just going to quest and stuff, dual No'kaled is probably the way to go.

[Mistrpeabody]

I have a question about the new buff system. If that goes live as well on Tuesday then might will give 3000 mastery rating. IF that is the case then wouldn't Assassination be better than it is now?