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  1. #1

    PURE DPS Prot Paladin?

    I want to make a pure dps build for my prot paladin. Would I gem 100% haste or 100% STR?

    Also any tips and tricks to (regarding gear, gemming, enchants, talents, etc etc) to achieve max dps possible as a prot would be greatly appreciated.

  2. #2
    http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.c...hp?f=6&t=32805

    Covers everything really.

    Haste vs Strength depends on how much vengeance you're getting. Roughly speaking 10 man main tanking or above & the answer is haste, lighter hitting content and the answer is strength. Crit becomes a decent secondary stat if you're seriously pushing for pure dps (well.. it's less crap than mastery, dodge & parry anyway).

    Your rotation changes a bit to push AS & for AOE cons. Which 90 talent depends on number of targets.

    But that thread has everything you want.
    Last edited by lakhesis; 2013-07-08 at 06:59 AM.

  3. #3

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathitis View Post
    I want to make a pure dps build for my prot paladin. Would I gem 100% haste or 100% STR?

    Also any tips and tricks to (regarding gear, gemming, enchants, talents, etc etc) to achieve max dps possible as a prot would be greatly appreciated.
    There's what, two dps secondary stats as tankadin? Haste and crit. Gear usually has two secondary stats on them. Look for those ones.
    There's one primary dps stat as tankadin: strength. So you'll want, ideally, strength plate gear with haste and crit.

    Haste will probably be better than crit due to HoPo generation. So I guess prefer that over crit. Though, I'm not sure what the breakpoints would be when gemming, considering the gem bonus.

    Only gem/enchant for strength if you aren't anticipating high levels of vengeance. High levels of vengeance completely negate strength.

    Oh yeah, get hit capped, and soft/hard expertise capped (depending if you're tanking or not) first.
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  5. #5
    @lakhesis - awesome resource, thanks for the link

    @scorpious1109 - ret is my MS

    @Mindark - thanks for the imput, your post combined with lakhesis is all I needed

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by lakhesis View Post
    http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.c...hp?f=6&t=32805

    Covers everything really.

    Haste vs Strength depends on how much vengeance you're getting. Roughly speaking 10 man main tanking or above & the answer is haste, lighter hitting content and the answer is strength. Crit becomes a decent secondary stat if you're seriously pushing for pure dps (well.. it's less crap than mastery, dodge & parry anyway).

    Your rotation changes a bit to push AS & for AOE cons. Which 90 talent depends on number of targets.

    But that thread has everything you want.
    As discussed in another thread theck's max dps rotations aren't actually max dps.
    From what i recall the highest dps one was
    AS > HW > conc (not overlapping) > Judgement > CS

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    As discussed in another thread theck's max dps rotations aren't actually max dps.
    From what i recall the highest dps one was
    AS > HW > conc (not overlapping) > Judgement > CS
    For Single target, Conc does more damage then Judgement or CS? Just asking out of curiosity, Prot is my third spec that doesn't get too much love (Despite all the OS gear I get for it..)

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    As discussed in another thread theck's max dps rotations aren't actually max dps.
    From what i recall the highest dps one was
    AS > HW > conc (not overlapping) > Judgement > CS
    Highest dps rotation is not a priority, it is more dynamic depending on GC procs and how often you reapply SS. If you use a fixed priority you will either run into gaps in your rotation or a sub-optimal rotation from dps PoV.

    The rotation becomes particularly fun in execute range if you are going for max dps.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-07-08 at 12:34 PM.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by scorpious1109 View Post
    ...Just spec Ret?
    Several reasons someone might be interested, main one being you wish to solo stuff that you want/need Prot for but don't need to actually tank a raid.

    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    From what i recall the highest dps one was
    AS > HW > conc (not overlapping) > Judgement > CS
    That's even counting the SotR damage you're losing from losing HP gen? I know that the absolute DPET falls somewhere in the order you gave, but I wasn't sure if that also counted the effective damage per HP that you have on CS and J.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Highest dps rotation is not a priority, it is more dynamic depending on GC procs and how often you reapply SS. If you use a fixed priority you will either run into gaps in your rotation or a sub-optimal rotation from dps PoV.

    The rotation becomes particularly fun in execute range if you are going for max dps.
    Far as I remember if you're getting a stream of procs, you want to just AS - AS - AS?

  10. #10
    Yeah, if you actually go through the data of some of the prio systems line by line there're quirks. Also all those results are for fully expertise capped, which you wouldn't necessarily do if you were purely pushing DPS.

    So it's worth pointing out that SimC supports prot paladin now.

    If you really want to get finicky, you can set up your own priority system in that & test it out fully.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Highest dps rotation is not a priority, it is more dynamic depending on GC procs and how often you reapply SS. If you use a fixed priority you will either run into gaps in your rotation or a sub-optimal rotation from dps PoV.

    The rotation becomes particularly fun in execute range if you are going for max dps.
    I wouldn't say rotation, more of priority. (At least for smash this button when it lights up)
    And yea it's not the exact one i use, but since we're giving very general ones.

  12. #12
    Haste haste and more haste

  13. #13
    You cant have enough haste!

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    AS > HW > conc (not overlapping) > Judgement > CS
    One thing that has always bothered me about this.....
    Where the fuck is Hammer of Wrath?
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    One thing that has always bothered me about this.....
    Where the fuck is Hammer of Wrath?
    It's pretty weak, and given the constraints on use, it's often left out. I THINK it's slightly ahead of Cons in terms of damage at raid-level vengeance, but not sure. Bad scaling is bad, I guess.

    Edit: put CS instead of Cons. lol.
    Last edited by Nairobi; 2013-07-13 at 04:37 AM.
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  16. #16
    Should be about 50% more than cs if my WoL are anything to go by.
    Armories:
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    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    It's pretty weak, and given the constraints on use, it's often left out. I THINK it's slightly ahead of Cons in terms of damage at raid-level vengeance, but not sure. Bad scaling is bad, I guess.

    Edit: put CS instead of Cons. lol.
    purty sure that Cons is one of the strongest abilities we have.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    purty sure that Cons is one of the strongest abilities we have.
    HOW should outpace Cons on ST at ~85k veng IIRC, in terms of DPET with regard to CD and haste scaling, since Cons behaves oddly there. Obviously on any MT fight Cons rockets ahead.

    In grinding dino's tonight, was seeing HOW hitting harder than HW, J, CS. Surpassed only by AS. Hard to take average Cons ticks and separate because of so much vengeance variance clutter, but it was solidly ahead when I was pulling solo....again that may be a scaling issue though.

    Still, likely a DPS increase to weave in HOW > Cons, if for no other reason that the cons overlap that occurs at higher haste levels.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  19. #19
    Hmm ran some simcraft logs and honestly haven't noticed major difference between switching Cons > HoW or vise versa at 118k Veng level.
    (the difference was ~0.1%)
    Now looking at the default rotation, and modifying it, depending on some conditions i was able to squeeze out ~+25-30% dps increase.
    At the same damage taken has increased somewhat (not equally in all cases)
    The main problem i noticed is that there is very large range in TMI.
    (Theck-Meloree Index : Measure of damage smoothness, calculated over entire fight length. Lower is better.)

    But i'm not sure how exactly it works so /shrug.

  20. #20
    Now assuming we are talking about raids, would any of this be viable as little more then a rotation to use when you are not tanking? I would assume while you are tanking a boss Survival > dps.

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