[Ret 5.0.4] Divine Purpose or Holy Avenger?

[Regen]

I know we'll have to wait until live to see the real numbers on which one will provide more overall dps (I think?) but I just wanted to create a poll to see what everyone will be choosing - another burst CD or RNG dps increase?

<- Taking DP personally, unless it's a huge gap between the two talents dps wise I'd rather not become more reliant on my cooldowns.

[btlyger]

Holy Avenger seems better from the tests I did on a training dummy, but divine purpose may have a place when using word of glory for damage. It's mostly up to preference I think.

[Farabee]

Divine Purpose.

Now that the spec has reliable HP generation, it feels like the proper boost it should be rather than the "hail mary" it was in Cata. I don't have to worry about "wasting" the proc on a TV anymore when Inq has 7 seconds left on the buff since I can be assured that I'll be able to get enough HP to refresh it in that 7 seconds. With a 25% proc rate it feels a lot less RNG now as well.

That said, I'd still rather see it become a direct copy of the Power Strikes talent for Monks, and remove the RNG altogether. Something like:

"Your abilities that generate Holy Power will now generate 2 Holy Power. This effect cannot occur more than once every 10 seconds. If you are already at maximum Holy Power, your next move that generates Holy Power will deal 25% more damage."

This would actually synergize well with Pursuit of Justice and would give us incentive to only use HP when we need to rather than immediately dumping it for fear of "capping out".

[Deleted]

DPS-wise it's DP>SW>HA by a margin of 1k dps gain by each other so....DP is a way to go, even at 85lvl. Anyway it's pretty good, and way works now way better than the old one which might procc from almost everything, no more "wasted procs" and 25% is a nice chance. In a long term it's better but HA is situational burst CD which might be good on some encounters like spine hc/unsleeping/zonozz but with the debuff on health i doubt it will.

[Sturmcantor]

Actually it's the other way around from that z3rK.

[Farabee]

Actually it's the other way around from that z3rK.

HA will lose a lot of damage if it isn't popped exactly every cooldown, which we all know you can't do on fights with a lot of movement. DP will be far more useful since it can be used on an Inq refresh when you're not on the boss, rather than totally wasted.

Then again, judging by your sig that isn't what you're focusing on. :P

[Deleted]

this is what i love to hear. if there's so much discussion about when which talent is best, Blizzard reached their goal (situational talents, rather than cookie cutter specs).

honestly, go with what you prefer. don't want an extra CD? go DP. want zealotry back? go holy avenger. don't want RNG and an extra CD to manage? go sanctified wrath.

[Banzubie]

Ashbringer.

Thats all I really care about.

[Regen]

this is what i love to hear. if there's so much discussion about when which talent is best, Blizzard reached their goal (situational talents, rather than cookie cutter specs).

honestly, go with what you prefer. don't want an extra CD? go DP. want zealotry back? go holy avenger. don't want RNG and an extra CD to manage? go sanctified wrath.

Yeah. This actually has me pretty excited

[Deleted]

People that didn't do any of the beta testing voted for HA.

[Therm]

Ashbringer.

Thats all I really care about.

haha that's my main issue deciding what to pick

[ipoststuff]

I like divine purpose better. I never liked the way they made us so cooldown dependant. I like my sustained sometimes bursty damage. It makes rotation more fun and a less cooldown to juggle. On the other hand there is ashbringer

[Sturmcantor]

HA will lose a lot of damage if it isn't popped exactly every cooldown, which we all know you can't do on fights with a lot of movement. DP will be far more useful since it can be used on an Inq refresh when you're not on the boss, rather than totally wasted.

Then again, judging by your sig that isn't what you're focusing on. :P

On the contrary, DP is impacted much more than HA by movement. HA only loses dmg value to movement if you are off the boss in the particular 18 seconds every 2 minutes you would have used it. DP is impacted every single time you are off the boss for any reason whatsoever. Average TV interval is about 5 seconds on a patchwerk fight. So everytime you are off the boss for five seconds or off the boss at the end of that interval you have reduced DP's effectiveness. Add to that the fact that HA is actually more damage on a patchwerk fight and much much much more effective if there is a burn phase or aoe phase to line it up with (Yorsahj, Hagara, Spine), and HA will be superior to DP on the majority of fights.

[kosechi]

i'm really torn about this.

i'm really annoyed that ret is still front loaded with damage cds and our sustained is still absolute crap.

i'm leaning towards DP for everyday use and HA for gimmick burst fights ( lets just pray with all our hearts we never get another fight like heroic spine)

[ipoststuff]

DP is impacted every single time you are off the boss for any reason whatsoever.

DP doesnt proc from ranged attacks. So when you get a DP proc that means you're in melee range and you can easily use the proc before running out.

[Monarch]

I think we have to switch those talents between different Bosses.
Imagine Spine of Deathwing HC.
There will HA 100 times better then DP.

same as Tier 1 movement talents, also depends on the Boss!

[Deleted]

I think we have to switch those talents between different Bosses.
Imagine Spine of Deathwing HC.
There will HA 100 times better then DP.

same as Tier 1 movement talents, also depends on the Boss!

and that's EXACTLY what blizzard wants to go for in MoP. talents are no longer cookie cutter where every paladin uses the same spec for every fight. i mean, did anyone spec differently for yor'sahj than for Warmaster hc (just 2 random choices, could be better ones)?

[Krekko]

and that's EXACTLY what blizzard wants to go for in MoP. talents are no longer cookie cutter where every paladin uses the same spec for every fight. i mean, did anyone spec differently for yor'sahj than for Warmaster hc (just 2 random choices, could be better ones)?

What?! You mean these changes made things less cookie cutter?! But less talents means less variety! How dare you!

In all seriousness, I am rather fond of HA. On fights where I can't maximize the use of HA, and DP will be optimal I'll use it, but I'm rather fond of HA myself. I mean, if not just for the looks (I mean, come on, Ashbringer.... I've been dreaming of that since... ever for all the time that matters). For now it seems the gap is small enough, and you can even maximize one or the other enough to better suit your play style, and with that they seem to have done quite well.

[Sturmcantor]

DP doesnt proc from ranged attacks. So when you get a DP proc that means you're in melee range and you can easily use the proc before running out.

That's precisely my point. If you are out of range, you aren't procing DP ever. If you are out of range during HAs cd, there is no loss. It is more likely that your off the boss times will fall during the time when HA is on cd than during the time when HA is off cd.

[Deleted]

My default option will be DP. Obviously HA will have it's shining moments and for those fights where it excels, I'll pick it - at least for progression attempts. 99% of the time though, I'll go for DP. I'll take a touch of randomness any day of the week over cooldown stacking.