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  1. #61
    Item Level483
    Expectations:up my dps or over all dmg
    Armory Link:ht#tp://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/dawnbringer/Os%C3%A4/advanced
    Worldoflogs Link:ht#tp://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-641s8ldoaqjxaf2l/details/5/

    But I am haste capped at 8085, Hit capped. clip dots. multi dot when needed. Change talents depending on the boss encounter. it doesn't matter can't seem to get it right. So if anyone could help me out it would be appreciated. I can't post links yet so put hash tags in. If that will help.
    Last edited by Osaedon; 2012-12-24 at 05:07 PM.

  2. #62
    Osa: 1.) It's not a haste cap, it's a plateau and is by absolutely no means necessary to perform better. The amount of Int you're sacrificing to go for 8085 haste clearly isn't doing you any favors. 2.) Your DoT uptime can be improved. For whatever reason, you didn't take the slipstream back for the second tornado gauntlet on the Blade Lord kill (just apply a set of DoTs and run back at about 11%), so make sure you do that the next time you kill it. 3.) Your MB usage was pathetic. 30 MBs over a nearly 9 minute fight while spec'd into DI is just unacceptable. Make sure you stop watch you're doing to cast MB. Remember MF is a channel and you are by no means required to finish its cast (and in most situations is actually a DPS loss if you do).

    I also say this a lot, but it really does help. Practice in the LFR.


    [ twitch ][ Elhaym#1731 if you have any questions ]

  3. #63
    Thanks for the input. This is the first time ive ever been shadow always been a healer so this is all new to me.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Osaedon View Post
    Thanks for the input. This is the first time ive ever been shadow always been a healer so this is all new to me.
    As much as people cry that SPriest is way too easy these days it does take some time to adjust to it if you've never really been a spriest before so don't feel bad, just keep working at it. One thing you did do fabulous at was it looks like you hit DP at exactly 3 orbs every time, so if you get the casting of MB more often sorted and keep up the good work with DP that will make a big difference for you.

    One thing you might consider is not running both DI and FDCL at the same time. Especially as someone who is newish to this getting overwhelmed with the procs is a real possibility, and something I think might be happening considering it looks like you only missed 3 Mind Spikes. I would suggest reading this thread with help on picking talents and stuff: http://howtopriest.com/viewtopic.php?p=22443#p22443 You don't have to follow it exactly but it might give you ideas for other options.

    Last thing I was wondering if you are using a mod to track your DoTs and when MB is off CD? Having a mod like that can really help you get used to the flow of the spec better. Also you should definitely be using HaloPro to help make sure you are getting the best result from Halo and Cascade.

  5. #65
    Field Marshal Alidie's Avatar
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    Weell this thread has been dead for a few days but meh I need help so here goes.
    Wiped 3 hours on hc zorlok yesterday and well, my dps was complete crap.
    The logs I post are from our 3 best tries.

    Item Level 498 (armory doesn't count upgraded items :< )
    Expectations: ..more diiibs!
    Armory Link: Can't post full link cuz im a mmo-c nub but just remove the spaces http: //eu. battle. net/wow/en/character/silvermoon/Alidie/
    Worldoflogs Link:
    www .worldoflogs. com/reports/rt-ttixs7xyvatsfd54/sum/damageDone/?s=6018&e=6396
    www .worldoflogs. com/reports/rt-ttixs7xyvatsfd54/sum/damageDone/?s=8549&e=8958
    www .worldoflogs. com/reports/rt-ttixs7xyvatsfd54/sum/damageDone/?s=8006&e=8385

    In one of these attempts even one of our tanks beat me on damage T_T
    Both my DPS and Damage done is sooo low compared to the rest, I have no idea what I'm doing wrong I keep getting unlucky proccs too and on attuniation i just spam SW:P.

    Talents I chose are FDCL+DI with Divine Star cuz i couldn't get the full benefit of a halo since the platforms are too small.
    Should I swap talents? Why? which?

    Also DPS isn't a big issue we're not near enrage or so so as long as ppl stay alive we can still kill it but it hurts when I do so low damage, my RL even asked wtf I was doing.
    Is this the result of not having on demand burst like every other class do?

    aaaany tips appreciated, will do same boss tonight too if damage is yet too low i'll update with more logs... thanks in advance

    update: with mindbender specced my dmg went up a bit but its still damn low
    Last edited by Alidie; 2013-01-04 at 12:43 AM.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Alidie View Post
    Weell this thread has been dead for a few days but meh I need help so here goes.
    Wiped 3 hours on hc zorlok yesterday and well, my dps was complete crap.
    The logs I post are from our 3 best tries.

    Item Level 498 (armory doesn't count upgraded items :< )
    Expectations: ..more diiibs!
    Armory Link: Can't post full link cuz im a mmo-c nub but just remove the spaces http: //eu. battle. net/wow/en/character/silvermoon/Alidie/
    Worldoflogs Link:
    www .worldoflogs. com/reports/rt-ttixs7xyvatsfd54/sum/damageDone/?s=6018&e=6396
    www .worldoflogs. com/reports/rt-ttixs7xyvatsfd54/sum/damageDone/?s=8549&e=8958
    www .worldoflogs. com/reports/rt-ttixs7xyvatsfd54/sum/damageDone/?s=8006&e=8385

    In one of these attempts even one of our tanks beat me on damage T_T
    Both my DPS and Damage done is sooo low compared to the rest, I have no idea what I'm doing wrong I keep getting unlucky proccs too and on attuniation i just spam SW:P.

    Talents I chose are FDCL+DI with Divine Star cuz i couldn't get the full benefit of a halo since the platforms are too small.
    Should I swap talents? Why? which?

    Also DPS isn't a big issue we're not near enrage or so so as long as ppl stay alive we can still kill it but it hurts when I do so low damage, my RL even asked wtf I was doing.
    Is this the result of not having on demand burst like every other class do?

    aaaany tips appreciated, will do same boss tonight too if damage is yet too low i'll update with more logs... thanks in advance

    update: with mindbender specced my dmg went up a bit but its still damn low
    So, seeing as that fight is a horrible one to theorycraft, I looked a bit further back in your guild's logs. Specifically to your Feng kill from Dec 19th.
    The majority of the issues I'm seeing here are likely carrying over to the fight you linked, but are much easier to spot here.
    Also remember that shadow excel's in excute range, if you dont get to execute range before the wipe, your dps will be lower. Not much you can do about that. It'll likely raise you 5-7% overall by making it through execute.

    1. Uptime. Your SWP and VT uptimes are patchy at best. You've got gaps sometimes 10-15 seconds long where you didn't have DoT's up.
    2. Talent choices, as you mentioned yourself, DI and FDCL. Its bad, only time its really acceptable is when you're moving close to the entire fight, as it allows you to get a lot more instant casts. If you're standing anything remotely close to still you'll want MindBender and DI instead. Looks like you're getting overwhelmed with procs to the point where its affecting your uptime. Sub 20% on Feng, you had maybe 50% uptime on VT.
    3. Mind Blast. You're missing a good amount of opportunities to cast it, Over a 6:56 fight like your Feng Kill was, you should've gotten 44 by just casting it on cooldown, With DI that should go up a solid amount, you had 46. Leaving some room (assuming Divine Insight procs mid way through the cooldown every time, you could've gotten almost 55.
    4. Devouring Plague. About half your Devouring Plague casts were when you only had 2 orbs, as opposed to the full 3. Its worth considerably more to wait for the full 3 orbs before using up the GCD.

    Your gemming is a bit funky. You have reached haste plateau, but you're using a mixture of hybrid and pure gems, Drop the pure haste gems, and use Reckless in all yellow sockets, purified in blue (only if the socket bonus is worth it) Generally most sockets will be, the closest I've found to not actually gemming for color was a 60 crit socket. Anything with an int socket bonus, or secondary stat greater than 80 points per gem will be.

    As for attenuation movement that you mentioned, yes spamming SWP is the best option, You'll get a few extra proc chances. Make sure you go into that phase with VT at full duration, (refresh it as soon as you see that ability used, doesn't matter how long you have left) By spamming SWP, you'll get the opening tick which can proc and reset the duration, Seems to be a 25-30% increase in tick count during that time, just from what I've tested, I could be wrong on that. You'll likely get 2-3 DI procs during this phase. Mind Bender is also valuable to use here. As are Halo and Divine Star. Sub 20% you'll also be able to weave double SW's into the SWP spam. And hopefully with that a few Devouring Plagues.
    Last edited by Nestar; 2013-01-07 at 10:58 PM. Reason: Removed info determined to be incorrect

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestar View Post
    Divine Star isn't worth it when you are able to do Mind Flay as a filler
    Where are you getting this nonsense from? That is bad advice at best and FUD at worst.



    From My Blog Here

    That's a chart of DPS by range for all three Tier 6 / Level 90 abilities. Notice the two lines for Cascade and Divine Star -- one is with no Mastery from gear (baseline 8%), the other is for 25% Mastery (easily achievable in raid gear, I'm at ~29% in 502 ilvl fully raid buffed, for reference) to include Mastery procs {note: no crit included in graphs and calculations, since crit equally affects all abilities involved}. The DPS values of DS and Cascade shown here are how much damage they do if you decided to cast them instead of casting Mind Flay for their additional GCDs over Halo, I.E. comparing apples-to-apples how much damage they do in the same time span but including the increased number of GCDs required.

    If Mind Flay did more damage per GCD than Divine Star, the DPS values on this chart would be negative. Two things to remember:

    1) Mind Flay has a channeled time equivalent to 2 GCDs, divided in to 3 ticks total. The amount of damage quoted on the tooltip is the total damage for all 3 ticks, not each individual tick.
    2) Divine Star will hit a target twice. Each hit is the damage reflected in the tooltip.

    EDIT: Here's some maths for any doubters:

    Divine Star damage = (((2528+4211)/2)+20000*0.455)*2 = 24939 damage
    Divine Star DPS = 24939 / 1.5 = 16626 DPS {assumes 0% haste, base GCD of 1.5sec}
    Mind Flay damage = (3147 + 20000*.5)*1.25 = 16433.750 damage
    Mind Flay DPS = 16433.75 / 3.0 = 5477.916 DPS {assumes 0% haste, 25% mastery, base GCD of 1.5sec, cast time is 2 GCDs}

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Twintop View Post
    Where are you getting this nonsense from? That is bad advice at best and FUD at worst.
    snip
    I stand corrected and have removed that section of my post.
    Good to know, appreciate the math you added. Will have to look closer at it when I get a chance.
    I currently have been using it solely based on the healing it does, When stacked I've been able to instantly heal 800K+ across the raid and another 800k if for some reason everyone wasnt healed up to full by this point. I've been seeing about 60k HPS when able to fully utilize (very little overhealing) and on CD.
    Last edited by Nestar; 2013-01-07 at 10:58 PM.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestar View Post
    I stand corrected and have removed that section of my post.
    Good to know, appreciate the math you added. Will have to look closer at it when I get a chance.
    I currently have been using it solely based on the healing it does, When stacked I've been able to instantly heal 800K+ across the raid and another 800k if for some reason everyone wasnt healed up to full by this point. I've been seeing about 60k HPS when able to fully utilize (very little overhealing) and on CD.
    Absolutely the healing is something to keep in mind when choosing your L90 / T6 talent. Often over-looked (with DS v. Halo) is that DS gives you max selfhealing twice (out back, decreasing by DM of course) on a very short DPS cooldown, as opposed to Cascade (DPS or healing, pick one) or Halo. There are some fights I think it is superior because of it's utility when a DPS check isn't a real issue (Blade Lord, Garalon, Lei Shi).

    /end threadjack

  10. #70
    Field Marshal Alidie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nestar View Post
    So, seeing as that fight is a horrible one to theorycraft, I looked a bit further back in your guild's logs. Specifically to your Feng kill from Dec 19th.
    The majority of the issues I'm seeing here are likely carrying over to the fight you linked, but are much easier to spot here.
    Also remember that shadow excel's in excute range, if you dont get to execute range before the wipe, your dps will be lower. Not much you can do about that. It'll likely raise you 5-7% overall by making it through execute.

    1. Uptime. Your SWP and VT uptimes are patchy at best. You've got gaps sometimes 10-15 seconds long where you didn't have DoT's up.
    2. Talent choices, as you mentioned yourself, DI and FDCL. Its bad, only time its really acceptable is when you're moving close to the entire fight, as it allows you to get a lot more instant casts. If you're standing anything remotely close to still you'll want MindBender and DI instead. Looks like you're getting overwhelmed with procs to the point where its affecting your uptime. Sub 20% on Feng, you had maybe 50% uptime on VT.
    3. Mind Blast. You're missing a good amount of opportunities to cast it, Over a 6:56 fight like your Feng Kill was, you should've gotten 44 by just casting it on cooldown, With DI that should go up a solid amount, you had 46. Leaving some room (assuming Divine Insight procs mid way through the cooldown every time, you could've gotten almost 55.
    4. Devouring Plague. About half your Devouring Plague casts were when you only had 2 orbs, as opposed to the full 3. Its worth considerably more to wait for the full 3 orbs before using up the GCD.

    Your gemming is a bit funky. You have reached haste plateau, but you're using a mixture of hybrid and pure gems, Drop the pure haste gems, and use Reckless in all yellow sockets, purified in blue (only if the socket bonus is worth it) Generally most sockets will be, the closest I've found to not actually gemming for color was a 60 crit socket. Anything with an int socket bonus, or secondary stat greater than 80 points per gem will be.

    As for attenuation movement that you mentioned, yes spamming SWP is the best option, You'll get a few extra proc chances. Make sure you go into that phase with VT at full duration, (refresh it as soon as you see that ability used, doesn't matter how long you have left) By spamming SWP, you'll get the opening tick which can proc and reset the duration, Seems to be a 25-30% increase in tick count during that time, just from what I've tested, I could be wrong on that. You'll likely get 2-3 DI procs during this phase. Mind Bender is also valuable to use here. As are Halo and Divine Star. Sub 20% you'll also be able to weave double SW's into the SWP spam. And hopefully with that a few Devouring Plagues.
    cheers for an answer!
    we ended up having me as a healer on our kill but on the tries before when I was shadow i felt my DPS/dmg was higher/on pair with the rest of my guildies at least. ran with mindbender+di+halo there. dot uptime is prolly low because i mostly forget to refresh VT before attuniation(?) or i am MC or i'm running etc etc and since the boss splits ... i dont even know.

    about feng, it's always weird for me there because I'm healer on stone guards and when I respecc my orb display gets fucked up so I basically have to guess when I have 3 orbs =(

    I'm also terrible with reforging and gemming, I'd love to get more int out of my gear but I'm afraid I'll lose hit/haste or even get too much of haste if I go for reckless gems + reforging something. I do have reforgelite but it won't work for me + it doesn't work with gems anyway. askmrrobot puts me under hit cap and that is unacceptable for me so i can't use that etc ugh. usually takes hours and lots of gold for me to finish my reforging into a somewhat acceptable result after getting a new item so any direct things anyone can point out is really helpful. will log on now and see if i can get moaaaaaaar int. I think my dps went down when I switched from a hc chest to a LFR chest (for 4set) which is odd..

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Alidie View Post
    about feng, it's always weird for me there because I'm healer on stone guards and when I respecc my orb display gets fucked up so I basically have to guess when I have 3 orbs =(
    What are you using to display orbs?

  12. #72
    Field Marshal Alidie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    What are you using to display orbs?
    uh standard blizzard whatever. =p i like them! but it only happens right when I respecc to shadow. the orbs light up as if I have 3, then I cast a MB and the middle orb disappears etc.. but i dont feel that is the biggest problem for me, i can relog for it to work but problem with DPS is when I'm shadow from the start u_u
    either way we're doing HoF HC now and I'll most likely heal for the entire raid anyway so probably doesn't matter that much how my dps is right now :<

  13. #73
    Ah.. that's an odd bug for the Standard UI :/

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Twintop View Post
    Where are you getting this nonsense from? That is bad advice at best and FUD at worst.



    From My Blog Here[...]
    How is it possible Cascade does more damage when you have 8% mastery compared to 25% mastery?
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    How is it possible Cascade does more damage when you have 8% mastery compared to 25% mastery?
    As I explain in the link, that chart takes the extra GCDs it costs to cast DS and Cascade vs. Halo (because they are shorter cooldowns) and subtracts out what you could have casted instead of using the GCD for another DS/Cascade, I.E.: a Mind Flay cast. Mind Flay counts as a DoT and is affected by Mastery, so the more Mastery you have, the more procs your Mind Flay casts will have, meaning that the Mind Flay you could have cast instead of DS/Cascade will do more damage with 25% Mastery than it would with 8% Mastery.

    Example (with made up numbers to illustrate the point):

    8% Mastery Mind Flay would do 9000 Damage over 3sec, or 4500 damage per GCD.
    25% Mastery Mind Flay would do 10000 Damage over 3sec, or 5000 damage per GCD.
    DS does 30000 damage in 1 GCD.

    DS has 2.67 GCDs spent in the same time period as Halo, I.E. 1.67 more GCDs spent that you could have spent casting MF instead. This means (on average over the course of a fight):

    8% Mastery = 30000 - 1.67*9000 = 14970 more damage done by spending that GCD on DS instead of casting Mind Flay. This works out to 14970/15 = 998 DPS gained by using DS for that 1 GCD instead of Mind Flay.
    25% Mastery = 30000 - 1.67*10000 = 13300 more damage done by spending that GCD on DS instead of casting Mind Flay. This works out to 13300/15sec = 886.66 DPS gained by using DS for that 1 GCD instead of Mind Flay.

    In our hypothetical example, going from 8% mastery to 25% mastery means that DS loses 111.33 DPS. The exact same process also occurs with Cascade.

  16. #76
    Ah yes, of course. Isn't comparing to only MF a pretty bold assumption though? I mean you have to reDoT, you have to use MB on CD, you have to use one DP, and more important you're assuming the player didn't pick any proc based talents like in T3/T5 (more GCDs on MS/MB means less DoT ticks from MF).
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

  17. #77
    Seeing as the question was whether you'd be better off using MF than the GCD associated with using any of the level 90 talents, I'd say the scope of the graphic is exactly correct.


    [ twitch ][ Elhaym#1731 if you have any questions ]

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    Ah yes, of course. Isn't comparing to only MF a pretty bold assumption though? I mean you have to reDoT, you have to use MB on CD, you have to use one DP, and more important you're assuming the player didn't pick any proc based talents like in T3/T5 (more GCDs on MS/MB means less DoT ticks from MF).
    No matter which talent is chosen, outside of AoE situations, you would only ever use it as a filler spell in your rotation. So it's perfectly fine to compare their DPS to Mind Flay.

  19. #79
    Item Level: 479
    Expectations: Want to do more DPS
    Armory Link: us. battle. net/wow/en/character/windrunner/Angelic/advanced
    Worldoflogs Link: worldoflogs. com/reports/eqb434s1wunam371/details/6/?s=1464&e=1990

    Hey guys, I did a pug today and would like to know if I can put out more damage somehow. I only got to do spirit kings with them so that's all I have logged. I should be in shadow gear on the armory.

    I can't really change gear around nor can I reforge (I know I'm way over hit cap and have too much mastery for example) because my main spec is holy so I'm mainly using healing gear which might be sub optimal. I mostly want help seeing if I can execute my rotation better or if there's anything I'm not doing right. Thanks a lot guys.
    Last edited by Angelicat; 2013-01-11 at 09:36 AM.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Angelicat View Post
    Item Level: 479
    Expectations: Want to do more DPS
    Armory Link: us. battle. net/wow/en/character/windrunner/Angelic/advanced
    Worldoflogs Link: worldoflogs. com/reports/eqb434s1wunam371/details/6/?s=1464&e=1990

    Hey guys, I did a pug today and would like to know if I can put out more damage somehow. I only got to do spirit kings with them so that's all I have logged. I should be in shadow gear on the armory.

    I can't really change gear around nor can I reforge (I know I'm way over hit cap and have too much mastery for example) because my main spec is holy so I'm mainly using healing gear which might be sub optimal. I mostly want help seeing if I can execute my rotation better or if there's anything I'm not doing right. Thanks a lot guys.
    Dot uptime can use some work. You're letting both fall off before recasting more often than not. Even for 1-2 seconds, it adds up throughout the fight.
    Your time between Mind Blasts is excellent, and you're making sure to use 3 orbs every time for Devouring Plague.
    Likely the cause of your bad uptime however, is the priority you're putting on the FDCL Mind Spike proc's. You appear to be using them ahead of refreshing dots, often letting dots fall off in order to use the procs sooner. If you look at where the 'Surge of Darkness' uptime appears, it's almost dead on with the gaps in your dots every time. These should be used almost elusively as a Mind Flay filler. (or perhaps in the more rare situation where you need to be doing something while moving). Even with putting dots ahead of these procs, you'll find you almost never lose stacks of it (the buff lasts fairly long as is).

    As you mentioned, your gear shares a use as healing spec. As such not a lot of it can be changed. I'd recommend starting to build a seperate set of gear, even if it means choosing a lower piece for use in shadow (463 instead of a 476 or whatever it may be) just so you can start reforging properly and making sure you're not wasting stats by going over hit cap and such.

    Not as much dps fixing, but I did notice you used halo on maddening shout every time. Something you may want to look at, is if possible, ensuring as much of your group as possible is within range so you can use a mindsear instead. It will likely cut down on a lot of healer strain during those few seconds. I noticed the other shadow priest was dotting people with SWP :|
    In our group we generally have our 4 mages break the effect solo. Not everyone, (its only a 40k effect after all) You did an average of 40k by yourself with halo, on top of what the ret pally and dk did. If done well, you can usually find yourself in a good placement to hit most of the group with a halo once the effect is broken, and do a good amount of healing with it as well.

    Recommendation for improvement: Make sure you have yourself a good dot timer (even one that shows dot ticks or latency). Then go hop on the target dummy's in vale and try it out. Start with 1 target until you can be sure your dots aren't falling off for a few minutes at a time. Then make it harder, Add only SWP on a second target, then do only VT on a second target (for additional FDCL Proc's) Then do full dots on both. Once you can do it confidently here, your raid ability will improve as well.
    Last edited by Nestar; 2013-01-12 at 11:47 PM.

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