Say NO to expertise and aspect on GCD

[Illana]

Mod warning: Be nice. Read this post, please. (This is a link)

DISCLAIMER: THIS IS NOT A QQ POST ABOUT PVE.

I could care less that we now need a combined total of 15% of expertise/hit to be capped in pve. The issues i'm bringing to light here are strictly related to PvP


2 of the most moronic changes I have ever seen in regards to hunters and pvp

1. Expertise:

Any agility based class INCLUDING other hunters are going to make our damage pathetic and even more subject to RNG than it already is.

This is because:

Agility based classes can have anything between 20-35% dodge in pvp (excluding hunters since we have a negative modifier on ours)

3% expertise is enough to negate the dodge of a level 90 players with BASE dodge rating.

however since agility classes have 20-35% dodge in pvp the sacrifice to even get CLOSE to capping expertise against those classes is not a realistic option since we would lose far too much agility and crit to obtain that cap.

This is a HUGE problem because hunter's do not have the tools that melee classes have to get past dodge such as short cooldowns stuns and we do not fight at melee range.

The distance we have to travel to get behind our target is so large that it's almost impossible to get there before our target can face us again.

Fighting in melee range is not an option either as we have neither the sustained resources or the survivability cooldowns to compete with another melee class toe to toe.

Additional tools that melee classes have are passive speed increases, active speed increases and movement impairing cleansers, none of which hunters possess unless you're counting on posthaste which no hunter is going to replace crouching tiger with.

The largest connotations of expertise will be the fact that concussive shot and scatter shot will be able to be dodged by agility based classes. As agility based classes are mostly melee, this is going to cause huge problems in terms of peeling and maintaining distance.

Also the sustained pressure against an agility class is going to take a nose dive as we are now competing with the dice roll of crits AND the possibility of dodges without any reliable way to project our damage while negating their dodge.

2. Aspects on GCD:

Why? Really? What is the reasoning behind this change? Is it really that overpowered that we are allowed to use our damage aspect to fire instant shots now and then?

Really I would prefer it if you just removed aspect of the fox and let us use iron hawk and return to the wrath play style now we don't have min range any longer.

1.5 seconds before we can even THINK about lining up our burst. 1.5 seconds is a lifetime in pvp, the guy could have LoSed, been healed, teleported, whatever before that global finishes and we can unleash our damage.

If aspect of the hawk gave inconsequential damage increases like at the beginning of cata i wouldn't care so much, but currently it's a flat 10% to all our damage! Our whole class is going to be be balanced around this aspect or we are going to be overpowered: that is a guarantee.

This also means that we are going to do pathetic damage when we DON'T have it up, which in pvp is going to be: "most of the time"

My wow sub lasts 2 months after this patch is released, no intention of renewing if these changes stick.

http://www.arenajunkies.com/news/484...s-of-pandaria/

Blue post suggesting that there is no "hardcap" in pvp for expertise but it may be beneficial to stack some expertise to negate SOME of the dodge of agility classes.

EDIT: some detailed notes about why expertise will break hunters and also aspect change is being reverted, GC himself said it will but did not give us a date.

EDIT2: Aspects now returned to off GCD with 5.05

[Bayuriel]

Poor baby, now you have to spend as many points on hit and expertise as any other class.

Infracted. ~Asrialol

[Deleted]

While you do the right thing (Don't like it? Don't play it)...
No amount of these kinds of complaining will change things. Surely not when posted on a fan site forum.

[ralphie]

Can I have your stuff?

[Deleted]

You'll quit WoW because you have to get expertise like all other classes (casters' version is getting more hit) and because the current design of Aspects suck and they're thinking about what to do with them?

Hah.

[Mizzow]

Honestly, this really isn't needed,

Lets think about it, you've been sitting on a hit cap of 961, way lower than that of other classes and no other type of stat needed, having to get expertise sounds completely fair, and why shouldn't a physical ranged style attack not be dodgable?

Also aspects on GCD, why not, paladins don't complain about there auras on GCD, mages about their armors etc. (Both these examples are different in MOP but you understand my point)

Just a couple of examples, the changes are completely fair and reasonable

[Uko]

Just cap expertise at 7.5 and you don't get dodged. I don't think arrows can be parried so bam your back exactly like you were before the patch except blizzard can itemize agi gear for hunters and shaman instead of having to itemize it all for shaman and cramming all the expertise they need on the shaman set gear.

[De Lupe]

* Says no to expertise and Aspect on GCD.*

Hmmmm, no effect. Still coming.

Guess I'll have to *GASP* adapt to the changing game environment! Dun dun DUN!

[Deleted]

I don't really care about expertise but if aspects will really be on CD, well, that's gonna suck. No more switching to Fox just to cast one cobra shot while moving out of fire.

[GrieverXIII]

Aspect on the GCD isn't nearly as big of a deal as most people make it out to be. Focus management is much more balanced in MoP so you really don't need to spam SS/Cobra nearly as much, plan your movement carefully in PvE and you will rarely have to switch. Same for PvP, if you're any good at pooling your focus/setting up your damage, you won't suffer a massive damage reduction.

The expertise change is slightly more concerning, simply because we can't really stand behind bosses or our targets in PvP.

[Dracodraco]

Expertise is fine. One of the main reasons we did very well in the first tier in Cataclysm was the fact that we had much more points we could spend on crit/haste/mastery than any other class, which threw our balancing out of whack, which then resulted in an entire expansion of bandaid fixes.

Aspects are fine. Plan your movements in PvE, and deal with losing 6.5-7% damage in PvP if you want full mobility. If you go BM, you'll be able to burst in aspect of the hawk for 21 seconds (that's 4 kill commands and 16 arcane shots in a row, along with 1 GBC for readiness) every 3 minutes, and go nuts in Hawk every minute.

[StaeleAilar]

So many people complaining about their classes. All of which should hush up and wait to actually play with it first before they throw their pacifier on the ground and starts screaming and stomping.

If you can't deal with aspect being on a global like almost every other ability for every class in the game, then it's time to find a new game, i suggest you don't waste the next two months.

[Illana]

People are responding in terms of PvE:

i don't give a crap about pve because expertise is balanced in that regard. PvE is easy because there are set caps you can aim for and cover dodge/parry/miss etc.

Getting enough expertise to cover an agility based class' dodge rating is impossible and since we are reliant on crits already for our damage, being dodgeable is just another smack in the face.

We don't even have the tools to prevent people dodging our attacks (well BM has a 3 second stun woop) because we are designed to stay at range and getting behind someone when you're 15-40 yards away from them is not an option. Every other class who have to deal with dodging have ways to prevent their target from dodging whether it be stuns, slows, roots or spells that don't check against expertise.

Aspects being on GCD i guess I will have to evaluate once it's out. If we do enough damage in pvp in fox only (i highly doubt it because it would unbalance pve) then ok.

But the way it's currently going, hunters will have inferior sustained pressure because every time we try to regain some focus when the target is LOSing us we have to spend an extra global on changing aspects.

GC said that aspects should be a choice and not "fox is for steady/cobra only". Good hunters are already NOT using fox every time they steady/cobra shot because it's not optimal for damage. My choice to go into fox is because I need to move and regenerate focus. If there was another option to regenerate focus while moving i would bloody take it but we don't have anything like that on demand.

having to take an extra global when you want to apply burst since you were just regenerating focus in fox. Just imagine for a second what can happen in those 1.5 seconds.

[Wildtree]

I play a hunter ever since, and I don't mind the changes.... Especially the expertise change is just another move in a more realistic direction, since the removal of the raining arrows. I cannot see a problem in PVP with Expertise either. I don't know many people who won't switch into their PVE set when fighting a boss in a BG (AV, Isle). In PVE I'm seldom behind a boss. Or let's say more seldom than it used to be, because many tanks don't turn the target around anymore (true for lower bosses in 5 mans). And even then, I can just reach the cap and I'm fine.
The Aspects change. hmmm.. I guess it's just a matter of getting used to it. On the positive note, Hunters still have their aspects, unlike Pallies who get their Auras taken away.

[Cotterize]

WTS - ArP gems. PST.....

[TheWerebison]

I'm getting flashbacks of changing hunter resource from mana to focus.

[Deleted]

I'd prefer if they changed you back to a TBC style hunter so you wouldnt make whine posts about how hard you think you're gonna have it.

[Deleted]

Sure you must have seen this coming. Blizzard is homogenize the game more and more, starting with wotlk. Now all roles are esentially the same but with diffrent cosmetics. Sure if every other physical class uses expertise you should too. Their argument is also quite understandable with this homogenize philosophy, "It's makes you share more gear with enhancement shamans".

[Blackmist]

Say NO all you want. It's not going back.

The expertise change is to bring us into line with all the other classes. Base damage may need boosting to compensate, but apart from that it's no problem.

Aspects on a CD is to prevent PvP macros. Use them properly, rather than macroing the shit out of it, and there's no real issue there. Personally, I don't like the cast times on hunter abilities. I feel it's the one thing that still holds us in the caster category we used to be in rather than the "ranged melee" role they've been pushing since Cata.

[Die Hard]

I dont have much problem with expertise but GCD on aspects gonna suck, especially for pvp.