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  1. #241
    Mechagnome L Kebess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Opeth69 View Post
    just started getting into tanking, ive been finding that parried SS or Revenges aern't generating rage for me, is this intentional as sometimes it makes keeping SB up difficult
    Yep, 100% intended, as Thyl said. If you really want to reduce that discomfort of missing a SS, Revenge, when you most need it to hit, you'll have to increase your threat stats (=> Hit and Expertise).

    With 7.5% Hit you won't miss anymore. With 7.5% Expertise you won't be dodged anymore. With 15% Expertise you won't be parried anymore. This last cap is not recommended however, as it requires too much Expertise rating.

  2. #242
    one other thing i wondered is, is it worth using Barrier whilst block is up even if that means have no block/barrier once they both come down shortly after as you have to build up to 60 rage again

  3. #243
    The Lightbringer Amulree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Opeth69 View Post
    one other thing i wondered is, is it worth using Barrier whilst block is up even if that means have no block/barrier once they both come down shortly after as you have to build up to 60 rage again
    Not a simple answer. Theck's most recent work discusses a "bleed" strategy, where you prioritise Shield Block and bleed off excess rage with Shield Barrier if you're in danger of capping rage and Shield Block is up/on cooldown. That said, there is a school of thought where Shield Barrier is actually the preferred button come what may, because it nets the highest TDR. In either event, you want to operate in the 80-90 rage range rather than 20-30, as it means you can get up decent mitigation if the worst happens and you really need it, rather than blowing 60 rage on Shield Block and then needing another Block/Barrier right after it.

    This, of course, is when describing physical-damage bosses. If the damage is magical, you'll always prioritise barriers but still want to operate around the 80-90 rage mark and try to avoid putting up any that are below 60 rage. It seems to me that, because barriers don't stack, it's almost always suboptimal to do so.

  4. #244
    Field Marshal Djsweet's Avatar
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    Can someone explain this for me briefly pls? For reforging
    P1: Dodge ==> Mastery > or Hit/Exp > or Parry
    If no Dodge then, Parry ==> Mastery > or Hit/Exp
    (unless you're capped, don't reforge Hit&Exp into anything, in order to keep a reasonable amount of them)

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by Djsweet View Post
    Can someone explain this for me briefly pls? For reforging
    P1: Dodge ==> Mastery > or Hit/Exp > or Parry
    If no Dodge then, Parry ==> Mastery > or Hit/Exp
    (unless you're capped, don't reforge Hit&Exp into anything, in order to keep a reasonable amount of them)
    Read the first post.

  6. #246
    Last edited by necrobear; 2012-10-03 at 08:53 PM.

  7. #247
    The Lightbringer shadowkras's Avatar
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    Damn, i just got lectured by some rogue (who supposedly "writes protection warrior guides") about my choice on taking dragonroar and piercing howl for 5mans.

    Well i know lkbess is from EU servers, so my concience is clear. Good guide, sums up all the basics of new changes.
    We are still too early i think to theorycraft on some talent choices.

    I will leave one tip here though: the addon RSA (Raeli Spell Announcer), instead of setting it on macros, the messages can be customized and will never spam the chat.
    People take stupidity to a whole new level when they sit in front of a computer.

    www.poepra2.com.br Um blog para quem prefere jogos multiplayer.

  8. #248
    Your rogue cares too much. Heroics are so retardedly easy in greens that you could literally spec holy as a warrior and still win. Solo.

  9. #249
    The Lightbringer Amulree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowkras View Post
    Damn, i just got lectured by some rogue (who supposedly "writes protection warrior guides") about my choice on taking dragonroar and piercing howl for 5mans.
    It’s not important on heroic five-mans, but you really should be going with Shockwave as a Protection warrior – I consider it mandatory, outside of lolz (Bladestorm and Avatar say WADDUP). On a single target, you’d use nothing on that tier because it plays no part in rage generation; without Shockwave on trash, warrior sustained AoE is anaemic because we have no access to Whirlwind and Revenge just got nerfed. Shockwave is also better defensively, too.

  10. #250
    The Lightbringer shadowkras's Avatar
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    Sorry Thylacine, but you will not convince me without backup numbers. I understand the stun part, we all have used it for well over 4-5 years.

    Just how is it better sustained on trash? Unless 2 different (strong) packs spawn in under a minute, the AoE dps from dragonroar is clearly superior.
    I believe the only time i will lose AoE aggro on a mob is when someone single-target burst focus on a mob that wasnt hit by cleave, which can be solved with a taunt or even snaring the mob for a few seconds. Because the damage over time a 5 min fight of dragon roar is clearly superior.
    Personally, im using it for the 360 degrees part that i missed on shockwave for years.

    The nerf on revenge is minor, how much was it, 5%?
    Last edited by shadowkras; 2012-10-04 at 10:30 AM.
    People take stupidity to a whole new level when they sit in front of a computer.

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  11. #251
    The Lightbringer Amulree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowkras View Post
    Sorry Thylacine, but you will not convince me without backup numbers.
    I'm not here to convince you, it's entirely your choice.

    But to prove the point, go find a target dummy and Shockwave it - then multiply that by three (assuming it's not a critical strike). Once you have that number, Dragon Roar the same dummy and post the results.

    Once you’ve done that, consider that Dragon Roar has an annoying knockback that messes up clustering, a clearly inferior stun capacity, and won’t be up every pack when you’re chain-pulling trash.

    Shockwave is the better choice. Use Dragon Roar (or even Bladestorm) if you like them more because you’ll hold threat regardless, but Shockwave is the superior tanking talent by a distance.

    And assuming Revenge hits three targets, it’s taken a 125% damage nerf (I think about 42% less damage, ish) on top of Deep Wounds ticking for half what it was before.
    Last edited by Amulree; 2012-10-04 at 10:55 AM.

  12. #252
    The Lightbringer shadowkras's Avatar
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    But to prove the point, go find a target dummy and Shockwave it - then multiply that by three (assuming it's not a critical strike). Once you have that number, Dragon Roar the same dummy and post the results.
    You are missing vengeance outside of that scenario completely, which plays a big role. Dragon Roar has a higher AP coefficient.

    when you’re chain-pulling trash.
    Which shockwave has been known to miss some targets because they dont all walk together stacked up.

    I'm not here to convince you, it's entirely your choice.
    This is the warrior forum and we are on a guide topic, so things are here to be discussed, epeens should be left out when entering.


    Anyway, anyone has the new spell coefficient for shockwave? Dragon roar should be something like 130-140% AP.
    Last edited by shadowkras; 2012-10-04 at 10:55 AM.
    People take stupidity to a whole new level when they sit in front of a computer.

    www.poepra2.com.br Um blog para quem prefere jogos multiplayer.

  13. #253
    The Lightbringer Amulree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowkras View Post
    You are missing vengeance outside of that scenario completely, which plays a big role. Dragon Roar has a higher AP coefficient.
    You don't get high Vengeance from trash, and you wouldn't use either on a boss because neither generate rage.

    Quote Originally Posted by shadowkras View Post
    Which shockwave has been known to miss some targets because they dont all walk together stacked up.
    Dragon Roar doesn't automatically hit and if your Shockwave is missing due to it being a cone, that's an L2P issue - not a Shockwave issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by shadowkras View Post
    This is the warrior forum and we are on a guide topic, so things are here to be discussed, epeens should be left out when entering.
    I'm not sure why "pick what you like" is considered epeen commentary. Perhaps you're working from a definition nobody else knows and applying it universally?

  14. #254
    The Lightbringer shadowkras's Avatar
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    Disregard my comment about revenge, i missed the patch notes:
    Revenge now deals 50% damage to a secondary target, and 25% damage to a third target.
    Deep Wounds now does 50% less damage for Protection Warriors only.
    You don't get high Vengeance from trash
    You get high enough to bring DR 40k damage to 180-200k or even higher if you are chain pulling.

    if your Shockwave is missing due to it being a cone, that's an L2P issue - not a Shockwave issue.
    No, it is missing because it is a cone, it doesnt cover the entire area and the cone distance isnt that far. You are assuming all your shockwaves are hitting all the targets in your 5mans, and i doubt they are. We all used SW for years and we all have seen it missing targets because of the cone shape.
    Even if you aoe silence casters, many trash packs have mobs that simply hit from a higher distance or are archer mobs.

    Dragon Roar doesn't automatically hit
    It is automatically a crit, cant be parried, hits in a 360 degrees for 8y and ignores all armor. That alone makes it better to hit things on the move.
    Shockwave is a frontal code with 10y max distance, meaning the initial area is something like 2-3 yards, so mobs closer to you will be likely to be missed, mobs on your sides and your back will be missed completely, those will only get hit by thunderclap if a group spawns quickly and you dont have time to group them up before the dps starts killing them.


    Anyway, aparently the AP coefficient of SW is still 75% of AP, while dragon roar is 126% of AP and always deal critical damage if it hits.

    Ignoring armor altogether, thats 75% x3 against 126% x2 in a 60 seconds period.


    you wouldn't use either on a boss because neither generate rage.
    Exactly, so for bosses neither of them is better.

    And one of the reasons i wont accept remarks like "shockwave is clearly superior for protection" without backup to such claim.
    Both abilities are situational and depends on your gameplay only.

    As i said before, the only benefit i will concede to shockwave is the 3s stun, that reduces a lot of damage taken from trash that are stunable.
    But to compensate that, i got piercing howl and keep moving. If the mob was stunnable to begin with, it will also be snareable, and few on 5mans arent.


    Anyway, im willing to try different talent combos if you present me one. I tried disrupting shout for example and wasnt using it often enough to justify it, its just like blood elves racial. I have not tried Staggering Shout or even Mass Spell Reflection yet though.
    People take stupidity to a whole new level when they sit in front of a computer.

    www.poepra2.com.br Um blog para quem prefere jogos multiplayer.

  15. #255
    Gotta love multiquote circlejerks.

    I haven't missed mobs in a shockwave in years. It's so easy to line up that I have trouble putting myself in your shoes missing. At any rate, it matters so little, as do the majority of talents outside of double time.

  16. #256
    Herald of the Titans xebtria's Avatar
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    in heroics I use mass kick all the time. could line up a bunch of lists where it is useful, I'm just too lazy. afterall, it's an additional interrupt, so I'm not gonna complain about that.

    staggering shout is only useful when someone else has piercing howl or some other class has something similar. but I yet have to find a place where kiting is useful. maybe in raids? other than that, it's a pvp talent, if at all. even there the additional interrupt might be more useful.


    and for the you don't get high vengeance from trash: pull more, then you get high vengeance from trash. and warriors aren't that squishy, that they couldn't afford pulling more.

  17. #257
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    is anyone else having trouble pressing revenge just as you get another revenge proc ?
    Like: revenge lights up from a proc, I press it and pretty instantly/just before, i get another proc. It does not inquire a gcd but revenge doesnt go off either. I'm left with a slight delay of ~0.5 seconds.

    Is this a bug, my ui or just intended ?

  18. #258
    Herald of the Titans xebtria's Avatar
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    well, revenge resets the very moment you parry or dodge an attack. especially during multi mob tanking, you dodge and parry quite often, and everytime you do, revenge lights up.

    I'd blame it on lag. simple as that.

  19. #259
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    Hmm, i was thinking of lag but i have 100/100mbit fiber with average 20/20 ms during raids :/
    And its like the revenge proc cancels the previous one making it "unavailable" when i hit it.
    Its also so often and noticeable it annoys me enough to come here

    Havent run into the scenario where i get a double proc cancelling it for even longer, but im sure its just a matter of time, and would like it go away!

  20. #260
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Honestly for dungeons I run Shockwave for one simple reason: It's a nice AOE on a 30s cooldown that stuns for ~3s, which gives me a nice breather if I need a heal. I tend to chainpull so my normal trick is to charge or leap (The charge/leap combo doesn't seem to trigger the damage from Leap anymore ), hit a TClap, gather the mobs up, and hit a Shockwave to get a brief respite.

    Reforging wise I'm going for Hit/Exp cap, then Mastery. I find that smoother damage intake is better than lower damage overall as it's more predictable. I have pretty much no rage issues at all, in fact a lot of times I'm sitting close to rage capped and I can pretty much keep Block up 100% without any issues; I barely have time to fill in Barriers to bleed off the rage because Block is off cooldown; I've taken now to only using Barrier when I'm in dire need of heals (as no damage > reduced damage) and against enemies that don't use physical/blockable damage.
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