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  1. #321
    If you feel the cost is justifiable, go for it. It's a great trinket for this tier. Honestly though, the Brewfest one is close. The extra dodge will grant more revenge procs on average but at the same time it's at a high DR. I'm going to grab it if I can find it for the right price.

  2. #322
    Napkin math suggest that for fights in which you can sustain SBlock 100% when the boss is on you, the relic falls back a bit, but it's better than the Shado-Pan/jade trinket. For me the relic gives ~9% dodge (12 sec), the shado-pan ~13% crit block (15 sec). If I had to choose between both I would pick relic until gear goes up. The relic is fairly good with the low avoidance gear most of us are sporting. None of them have an assured effect (which I never liked as tanking trinkets), so pick your poison.

    Personally, I'm using both, and using elixirs instead of flasks. I don't think I will stop using the Relic on this tier. Elegon/Tsulong trinkets are good for "a boss is on you 100% of time" scenarios, which favor the relic over the shado-pan/jade trinket, so....
    Last edited by Espada; 2012-11-03 at 07:42 PM.

  3. #323
    I'm anxious to finally see a general consensus on gemming and reforging. It seems that every post I read has so many different opinions and ideas. Some say to hit the 7.5% hit and expertise for better rage gen to use Shield Block and Barrier more reliably. Some even say to get expertise as high as possible, with 15% the target. Others say it's not as important. Some are saying go stamina, others go the mastery route. Mr Robot says one thing, ReforgeLite says another. Everyone does it differently. Is one better or is the end result pretty much the same and I'm debating things that don't matter?

    The DK I tank with in raids usually has 100K more hp than I do, at least. Healers and others ask me why my health is so low, compared to the DK. I see other posts that say the warrior in question has too much health, and to focus more on hit/exp/mastery, etc. Gems are confusing as I debate whether to go pure stam blue or puissant stam/mastery green for blue sockets, guardian stam/exp or fine stam/parry for red sockets, and usually stick with fractured yellow cut for yellow slots. As a JC, I have 2x 480 mastery gems, but 480 stamina gems looks nice too. There are a few enchants where questions come up, such as wrists and gloves.

    I have been playing WoW since early beta pre-official launch. This is the first time I've been uncomfortable with my warrior and tanking any and everything. I know it's getting worse as I wait with uncertainty regarding the gearing and changes. I also know that gearing/gemming/reforging can change for each encounter. I understand the mastery for melee, stam for magic that is often referred to. Looking at so many player armory pages shows the same variance in hit/exp, stam, mastery. I know Blizzard wanted to get away from cookie cutter WoW, but just wish things agreed more often in theory.

    Can't post a link for my armory. US, Kilrogg, Mornak. Talent spec is not the regular 2-1-3-2-3-1 used normally. Been soloing ZG for mounts.
    Last edited by jader; 2012-11-05 at 10:38 PM.

  4. #324
    I am back to my "old" war tank that I was playing in the BC extension. I really love the way they changed that class / spec and the active mitigation.
    I've been reading all the pages of the guide here, very good guide by the way, makes the "come back" to my old war much easier. And all the discussions in the following pages are a good source of information.
    I am making some macros and I would like to have a list of the skills that are not on the GCD. I've been looking around and couldn't find anything about that. Anyone has a link to a list ?

  5. #325
    Berserker Rage
    Charge
    Intervene/Safeguard
    Heroic Leap
    HS/Cleave
    Deadly Calm
    Pummel/Disrupting Shout
    Taunt

    Demo Shout
    Enraged Regen
    Last Stand/Rallying Cry
    Shield Wall
    War Banners
    Recklessness/Avatar/Bloodbath
    Shield Barrier/Shield Block
    Spell Reflection

  6. #326

  7. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by jader View Post
    Everyone does it differently. Is one better or is the end result pretty much the same and I'm debating things that don't matter?
    Eventually, people who are able to see the big picture realize that 90% of what is discussed on strategy forums provides little-to-no tangible, meaningful difference in game. People will debate for pages and pages over the differences between secondary stats, between hybrid gem choices, between A talent or B talent, and people have become incredibly reliant on "TLDR" guides that tell them what to do and how to play. However a lot of these discussions and consequential guides occur in a vaccuum (ie, a Patchwerk fight with 100% uptime and zero human error), and reality isn't often considered. Even if something will happen less than 1% of the time, people will make a fuss about it.

    The way I see it...

    Does Stamina help you as a tank? Yes.
    Does Mastery help you as a tank? Yes.
    Does Dodge help you as a tank? Yes.
    Does Parry help you as a tank? Yes.
    Do Hit and Expertise help you as a tank? Yes.

    Does one of these stats help you way more than the others on a point for point basis? Well, probably, but why not get some tank gear, go play your warrior, and have some fun figuring out what you need more. Odds are that if you have a clear, sound reason for gearing your warrior the way you do, you won't suck.

  8. #328
    Herald of the Titans xebtria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skygoneblue View Post
    but why not get some tank gear, go play your warrior, and have some fun figuring out what you need more. Odds are that if you have a clear, sound reason for gearing your warrior the way you do, you won't suck.
    theorycrafting figures out the mathematically best way to do something in said patchwerk fight situation.
    Afterall it gives a good guide, but why should someone do the trial and error himself again, if that is already done with said theorycrafting and simcrafting?

    I'd say, first go the way that theorycrafting and simcrafting suggests and see if it works. if it doesn't, it's still time to change stuff according what any invidual raid needs. but chances are pretty high, that whatever is determined in theory as the best or at least "a good" way, is not the worst way and you should do anything that just comes up your mind first and try it out

  9. #329
    Quote Originally Posted by xebtria View Post
    theorycrafting figures out the mathematically best way to do something in said patchwerk fight situation.
    Afterall it gives a good guide, but why should someone do the trial and error himself again, if that is already done with said theorycrafting and simcrafting?

    I'd say, first go the way that theorycrafting and simcrafting suggests and see if it works. if it doesn't, it's still time to change stuff according what any invidual raid needs. but chances are pretty high, that whatever is determined in theory as the best or at least "a good" way, is not the worst way and you should do anything that just comes up your mind first and try it out
    Completely agreed! The poster I was replying to was commenting that people are still heavily debating stats for Protection, and he is hoping they come to a conclusion soon. However, if you look back to Cataclysm, Blood Death Knights debated for almost the entire expansion about Mastery vs. Avoidance. I was merely trying to say that if everyone is so heavily debating stats, odds are, they're much more inconsequential than what people think.

    Yes, the theorycrafting gives a strong foundation, but a line needs to be drawn. People need to realize when all the debating is not really yielding any siginificant results, that it's most likely that both answers are acceptable in their own right.

  10. #330
    Thanks for the discussion and replies. Kinda figured I needed to just commit to one theory for gearing and gemming, and stick with it. I changed a few gems and couple enchants last night. Just over 7.5% hit and closing in on 15% expertise. Anxious to go try it out now.

  11. #331
    Herald of the Titans Dannyl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddytheone View Post
    Depends, for 10 man I would go mastery
    For 25 I would go stamina every time
    Is there that big of a difference between 25- and 10-man, or is it just the amount of healers able to do more in 25? I only play 10-man, so far, myself.

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  12. #332
    Quote Originally Posted by Dannyl View Post
    Is there that big of a difference between 25- and 10-man, or is it just the amount of healers able to do more in 25? I only play 10-man, so far, myself.
    The damage is higher, mob hp is higher and the mechanics change slightly from 25 to 10 man because doing the 25 man modes would make 10 man more difficult. Blizzard thinks the US wants 25 man to be the main competitive progression linear, so they don't want 10 man to seem "harder".

  13. #333
    Keyboard Turner kintq's Avatar
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    Thank you for the great info and the awesome organization of it as well.... This has really helped me out in preparing to get ready for lvl 90 on my warrior.

  14. #334
    What would be the best way to reforge/gem/enchant etc for the challenge modes as a prot warrior ??
    Would it be defferent for each instance or there is an optimal way ?

  15. #335
    Very nice starting/even experienced guide to anyone playing warrior tank, 6/6h here and I highly recommend this, GJ Kebess. I was not so sure when you started to make these treads but this makes sense. Read this and become immortal fellow wawwiows.

  16. #336
    I'm not really sure I understand the following:

    Reforging

    P1: Dodge ==> Mastery > or Hit/Exp > or Parry
    If no Dodge then, Parry ==> Mastery > or Hit/Exp
    (unless you're capped, don't reforge Hit&Exp into anything, in order to keep a reasonable amount of them)

    P2: Hit/Exp ==> Mastery > or Parry > or Dodge
    If no Hit/Exp then, Dodge ==> Mastery > Parry
    If no Hit/Exp or Dodge then, Parry ==> Mastery

    P3: Dodge > Parry > Mastery ==> Hit&Exp
    So for p1 and p2, reforge dodge & parry (whatever you have the highest of) to mastery if you're hit and xp soft capped (7.5%)?
    Last edited by ShadowTitan; 2012-11-12 at 12:21 AM.
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  17. #337
    Mechagnome L Kebess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thyphus View Post
    What would be the best way to reforge/gem/enchant etc for the challenge modes as a prot warrior ??
    Would it be defferent for each instance or there is an optimal way ?
    I haven't spent that much time in CM's, but so far I know you should prioritize damage over anything else - Expertise hard cap should be a good thing to have thus.
    Furthermore, you should pick Strength over Stamina while gemming, and even use DPS trinkets if you have any. Following this, Crit might be a good thing to have too, instead of Mastery for example.

    In short, as long as you're not dying, try getting more damage by prioritizing Strength over Stamina (while gemming), then Crit over Mastery (while reforging), and all this while staying Hit and Expertise hard capped, of course. Keep in mind that, the faster mobs die, the less time you spend tanking them. This will eventually allow you to chain your CDs/external CDs and always be safe even with less survivability stats.

    Good luck !


    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowTitan View Post
    I'm not really sure I understand the following:

    So for p1 and p2, reforge dodge & parry (whatever you have the highest of) to mastery if you're hit and xp soft capped (7.5%)?
    In short, yes. You often want to reforge Dodge instead of Parry, as it's OK to have around 2/3 times more Parry percentage (not necessary rating), because of how the diminishing returns on those 2 stats work.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-12 at 03:17 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Paisti View Post
    Very nice starting/even experienced guide to anyone playing warrior tank, 6/6h here and I highly recommend this, GJ Kebess. I was not so sure when you started to make these treads but this makes sense. Read this and become immortal fellow wawwiows.
    I'm very glad you approve this ! I'll keep it as up to date as possible,
    Last edited by L Kebess; 2012-11-12 at 02:27 AM.

  18. #338
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Well I've started gearing up my Prot Warr in the HC Dungeons now (Took me long enough ), but if I'm understanding everybody right it seems that the P3 (stamina) gearing option is the best given the magic damage atm and is it a good idea to stack Stam for Dungeons (I know they're easy, but still).

    For HC Dungeon gear there are a lot of pieces that are Dodge/Parry/Mastery and Exp/Hit and then some that are just pure avoidance. Is it preferable to have all of your 363 HC Dungeon gear had two avoidance stats when possible then reforge for Hit/Exp?
    Last edited by Scummer; 2012-11-15 at 09:37 PM.

  19. #339
    Herald of the Titans Dannyl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Well I've started gearing up my Prot Warr in the HC Dungeons now (Took me long enough ), but if I'm understanding everybody right it seems that the P3 (stamina) gearing option is the best given the magic damage atm and is it a good idea to stack Stam for Dungeons (I know they're easy, but still).
    To be frank, it will not matter much for 5-mans. I didn't really enchant or reforge much until I started raiding and was able to clear the 5man content just fine. Rather focus your gearing schema with raids in mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    For HC Dungeon gear there are a lot of pieces that are Dodge/Parry/Mastery and Exp/Hit and then some that are just pure avoidance. Is it preferable to have all of your 363 HC Dungeon gear had two avoidance stats when possible then reforge for Hit/Exp?
    It all depends exactly how you want to gear; depending on a lot of factors, the least which is not personal preference. Hit and expertise are good for three things; a) pushing high DPS, b) snap aggro during taunt switches, and c) for maintaining high SB uptime. If you feel you can accomplish all three, or at least the select combination of the three that fits your play style, without taking hit/exp into your gear, then by all means pick the pieces with avoidance and mastery. I've gone for soft caps on hit and expertise, with hybrid gems and a couple of pure stamina gems, just because with so much hit and expertise I can keep shield block up for most of the time, and with so low mastery and avoidance, at this stage of the game, the extra stamina does help out a lot.

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  20. #340
    Would you recommend Windsong vs Colossus? Wouldn't a proc of 1.5k mastery > colossus 7.5k abosrb shield? Only problem I see with Windsong is that you might not get mastery all the time as a proc.
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