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  1. #401
    Not priorities, weights. It's ok to value more certain stats, but you can't value something over absolutely everything. If you want theck's stat weights,

    “Long” generator queue, “Bleed” finisher queue:

    | | dodge | parry | hit | exp | mastery |
    | mean | 0.0078 | 0.0078 | 0.0057 | 0.0058 | 0.0102 |
    | std | 0.0006 | 0.0005 | 0.0005 | 0.0006 | 0.0006 |
    | std_mean | 0.0001 | 0.0001 | 0.0001 | 0.0001 | 0.0001 |

    “Long” generator queue, “Shield Barrier Only” finisher queue:

    | | dodge | parry | hit | exp | mastery |
    | mean | 0.0101 | 0.0099 | 0.0050 | 0.0050 | 0.0060 |
    | std | 0.0006 | 0.0007 | 0.0007 | 0.0007 | 0.0006 |
    | std_mean | 0.0001 | 0.0001 | 0.0001 | 0.0001 | 0.0001 |

    “Long” generator queue, “Shield Block only” finisher queue:

    | | dodge | parry | hit | exp | mastery |
    | mean | 0.0071 | 0.0071 | 0.0004 | 0.0003 | 0.0079 |
    | std | 0.0005 | 0.0005 | 0.0005 | 0.0004 | 0.0005 |
    | std_mean | 0.0001 | 0.0001 | 0.0001 | 0.0001 | 0.0001 |

    “Short” generator queue, “Bleed” finisher queue, front-loaded 30 sec sim:

    | | dodge | parry | hit | exp | mastery |
    | mean | 0.0068 | 0.0066 | 0.0069 | 0.0070 | 0.0111 |
    | std | 0.0787 | 0.0787 | 0.0783 | 0.0780 | 0.0777 |
    | std_mean | 0.0001 | 0.0001 | 0.0001 | 0.0001 | 0.0001 |
    Last edited by Espada; 2012-12-01 at 04:24 PM.

  2. #402
    Herald of the Titans Dannyl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Espada View Post
    Not priorities, weights. It's ok to value more certain stats, but you can't value something over absolutely everything.
    Well, I've already given you my reasons, couple of times over, so I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on that.

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  3. #403
    Sure, as you wish. Though personally, the only reason I enter in discussions it's because I may learn something from the other person. It's not a competition.

  4. #404
    Herald of the Titans Dannyl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Espada View Post
    Sure, as you wish. Though personally, the only reason I enter in discussions it's because I may learn something from the other person. It's not a competition.
    I didn't say it was but I don't like regurgitating the things that I've already said. It just doesn't contribute anything to the thread.

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  5. #405
    Mechagnome L Kebess's Avatar
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    Just jumping in quickly to give another point of view.

    Dodge for Prot Warriors does exactly the same as Parry, as we all know (Hold the Line glyph aside), the only difference is how their diminishing returns evolve once you start staking them.

    Since Nelfs Quickness racial isn't affected by DR, we should see it as a flat 2% ''avoidance'' increase and not just Dodge - meaning it's the same as Parry (avoidance-wise).

    The question then becomes is 2% avoidance better than 450 Stamina (7K HP) ? And as you know, there simply isn't a simple answer to this, since it's really like comparing apples and oranges. Those two stats look alike, they are both survivability stats, but are in fact two completely different things.

    If you rely solely (or mainly) on sims to answer these sort of questions, then you'll see that 2% avoidance is dramatically better than 7K health, as it will provide a significant amount of TDR, whilst 7K health will only provide a minor increase in your Effective Health (about 1%).

    The problem is, avoidance isn't applicable on every type of damage, since you can't avoid many type of damage, making those 2% avoidance completely useless whenever they are not applicable.
    Stam on the other hand, doesn't have this issue, and will always increase your survivability (EH) no matter what, making it thus much better in those situations, despite what your sims might tell you, and even if it's a 1% HP increase.

    The problem with comparing two different things is that, usually you can't give a clear answer which is applicable for every possible situation (or even most situations).
    The only answer I can give here is thus, you'll have to decide for yourself, as they are both valid choices, and can be justified and argued, and there's simply no clear maths to show that one is clearly better than the other in most situations, since you'll have to take into account things that can't always be quantified (your ''mana spongeability'', spikiness, etc...), or remain too random to rely on (avoidance).

    In those situations, I personally tend to go for Stamina (or the stat that increases my EH) as I know for sure that it will be applicable, and have some use no matter what happens. But this is only a simple personal preference, and surely does have other downsides.

  6. #406
    My main has always been a Prot Pally, but I enjoy all of the tanking classes, Warrior included. And since I'm trundling my guy slowly to 90 (he's just 86 atm, so only been tanking the first 2 MoP dungeons so far), I figured I'd browse the guide, make sure nothing mind blowing has changed since Cata that I should be aware of.

    And the one thing that really surprised me was the lack of value Haste has for Prot Warriors, or rather still has, in the face of the "active mitigation" route Blizz has taken tanks.

    Now, Haste has historically been a "DPS" stat, along with Crit, and was never good for the plate tanks. So imagine my surprise when in the beginning of MoP I read up and find out that Haste is on Par with Mastery for Prot Pallies, after Hit/Exp but before Parry/Dodge in priority! And that's mainly because Prot now shares the old Ret talent that reduces the CD on several abilities based on Haste, which allows for quicker Holy Power generation which is what our active mitigation relies on, just like Rage is required for Warriors.

    So, now fast forward until a week or so ago when I picked up my Warrior and started to level him a bit and now really imagine my surprise when, in the face of the significant stat priority changes for Pallies with regards to Haste and active mitigation, to find that Warriors, which also are now called on to pay attention to active mitigation, still don't want any Haste.

    Just struck me as odd.

  7. #407
    Moderator eddytheone's Avatar
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    Well for Warriors, haste only affects your white damage as you don't even get rage from melee swings now so any benefits you gain from haste you are far better putting it into crit from a DPS standpoint. In terms of mitigation both of said stats do nothing at all so in terms of getting the most out of active mitigation all you can do really is cap expertise and hit, then just go full out Mastery

  8. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by eddytheone View Post
    Well for Warriors, haste only affects your white damage as you don't even get rage from melee swings now so any benefits you gain from haste you are far better putting it into crit from a DPS standpoint. In terms of mitigation both of said stats do nothing at all so in terms of getting the most out of active mitigation all you can do really is cap expertise and hit, then just go full out Mastery
    Oh, I understand why Haste is useless for Warriors, I'm just saying that I am so surprised that they made such a big change to Prot Pallies to make Haste, traditionally a DPS stat, suddenly very important, yet they did nothing to Prot Warriors to make it more useful.

    To be fair, my understanding is that Haste has a minimal benefit to Blood DK's as well so is generally prioritized last (other than Crit), but when I'm on my Blood DK, with them now having a 1s GCD in all specs, feels like I'm always hitting buttons as fast as possible. Then I hop onto my Warrior, and it just "feels" so much slower at a 1.5s GCD. Not necessarily less effective, just sluggish in feel.

  9. #409
    Ive noticed quite a few warrior's going for full 15% exp and 7.5% hit cap's now then mastery, how does this work out compared to some of the other setups for stats.

  10. #410
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathgoose View Post
    Oh, I understand why Haste is useless for Warriors, I'm just saying that I am so surprised that they made such a big change to Prot Pallies to make Haste, traditionally a DPS stat, suddenly very important, yet they did nothing to Prot Warriors to make it more useful.

    To be fair, my understanding is that Haste has a minimal benefit to Blood DK's as well so is generally prioritized last (other than Crit), but when I'm on my Blood DK, with them now having a 1s GCD in all specs, feels like I'm always hitting buttons as fast as possible. Then I hop onto my Warrior, and it just "feels" so much slower at a 1.5s GCD. Not necessarily less effective, just sluggish in feel.
    The Pally "change" might not have been something they planned for.

  11. #411
    Moderator eddytheone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Opeth69 View Post
    Ive noticed quite a few warrior's going for full 15% exp and 7.5% hit cap's now then mastery, how does this work out compared to some of the other setups for stats.
    I much prefer it for high end, as having that extra rage WHEN you actually need it is very useful during progression and on bosses with mechanics that you need to react to. Going for mastery before the 15% imho seems a little pointless as RNG is going to play more of an effect than your reforges at mastery levels as low as you will be getting at this stage in the expansion. Possibly in full BiS gear this tier it *Might* be worth going mastery @ 7.5% expertise but I doubt it personally, and maintaining 15% expertise and 7.5% hit with the budgets on the full BiS items and tiers beyond it wont really be a problem to maintain

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-12 at 02:06 PM ----------

    For DK's I honestly wouldn't say haste is THAT bad, as it will increase your rune generation a little bit which translates to more death strikes, so more EH. I honestly haven't looked into it that much but will do after our first alt run is completed and I start raiding more on my DK

  12. #412
    Quote Originally Posted by idefiler6 View Post
    The Pally "change" might not have been something they planned for.
    Oh, I suspect as much as well, considering Haste still only shows up on what is flagged as "DPS Plate", so for instance, if you were in a LFR as a tank, you'd never have the ability to get a +Haste/Mastery plate drop.

    But, they haven't made any change to them to try and lower the value, so I guess if not intended, they aren't bothered by it.

    Quote Originally Posted by eddytheone View Post
    For DK's I honestly wouldn't say haste is THAT bad, as it will increase your rune generation a little bit which translates to more death strikes, so more EH. I honestly haven't looked into it that much but will do after our first alt run is completed and I start raiding more on my DK
    See, I would have thought that myself! But still, while it is not bad, as it apparently is for Warriors, it still seems to be ranked at the lowest spot (Unless they go for the build that ignores hit/exp). Which implies that, even though it has a useful benefit, it's still minor compared to what the others provide.
    Last edited by Deathgoose; 2012-12-12 at 02:55 PM.

  13. #413
    How good is prot at doing dailies?

  14. #414
    Quote Originally Posted by pkm View Post
    How good is prot at doing dailies?
    Fire up second wind and gather all the quest mobs you need and aoe them down.

  15. #415
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkm View Post
    How good is prot at doing dailies?
    Indestructible but takes a little longer to kill stuff, except in cases where you have the option of gathering a lot of mobs all at once, like with some of the klaxxi dailies. Most of the time, I have no problems holding 5+ mobs as fury, but for largest numbers and really hard hitting mobs prot is better.

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  16. #416
    Ok, I got a really stupid and obvious question but I never saw anyone talk about it.
    Why the hell is mastery considered to be the most important stat when Shield Block makes mastery completely worthless (given the fact you have it up all the time, which i do) and the other way around, the more mastery you have Shield Block becomes worse.
    Thanks

  17. #417
    Mastery: Critical Block
    Requires Warrior (Protection)
    Requires level 80
    Increases your chance to block by 4% and your chance to critically block by 18%.

    Shield Block
    60 Rage
    Instant cast 1.5 sec cooldown
    Requires Warrior (Protection)
    Requires level 18
    Requires Shields
    Raise your shield, blocking every melee attack against you for 6 sec. These blocks can be critical blocks.

    Though most people consider expertise and hit to be more important than mastery anyway.

  18. #418
    Thanks alot.

  19. #419
    The Lightbringer Zell the Stormbreaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathgoose View Post
    Not necessarily less effective, just sluggish in feel.
    I think a lot of longer-term warriors (of any spec) feel this way; I know I do. I logged in on the first day of 5.0 and literally wondered what they'd done to my toon of over half a decade. We're into 5.1, and I still feel this way.

  20. #420
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    Anyone got dps tips or tricks for garalon heroic as prot warrior ?
    I can barley do 40k dps. (DK offtank pulling 55-60k)
    And we hit enrage couple times(1% wipes yaaaay...)

    Part of it is that im 2nd person kiting, so i miss a good 10-20 seconds where i cant dps at all. (Tried getting around it but they're bit anal about patch placement.)
    I try to be on legs whenever i can and on body rest of the time.
    Using sblock glyph, bb+reck+banner+pot pulls and then again for execute phase.

    Forgot to log
    Last edited by santa666; 2012-12-30 at 03:42 PM.

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