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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by voltaa View Post
    I was aware that arcane that arcane is currently not viable but I woke up ten minutes before raid so I didn't bother respeccing and I have always been one to pick the unpopular mage spec and make it work. And I am not misinformed about the rotation at 90, I am quite aware that arcane is just fire with a hard hitting dump spell added to the mix (nuke, hit procs, dump charges, keep bomb up) even with the IW, being FORCED to use procs rather than having use them strategically took away the only element of complexity from arcane's playstyle
    Forget Arcane. It won´t work until you get the regen from level 90 talents.

    I am sad that I won´t be able to push over everyone else with the Sinestra trinket. =/

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Noxiye View Post
    I can imagine the bolded part leading to Frost Mages getting the same reputation as they had in early Cataclysm. If Ice Lance hits for more than Frostbolt, something is off. Blizzard needs to figure out a way to make Frost good for PvE without making them OP in PvP. It doesn't seem like they can.
    I forgot to mention that I have ice lance glyphed and it was hitting two dummies every time. I tried it again on a single dummy (and after reforging haste > mastery) and now FB was 30% of my dmg and IL was 25%.

  3. #43
    Good feedback guys, keep it coming (and if possible, lets focus on feedback rather than back and forth checking of facts in this thread, thanks! It'll just make my job easier lol :P )


    So here is some of my feedback. After an entire night of raiding, playing and testing on live, not much has changed from the feedback I can give from beta.

    Arcane is pretty borked. Fire and Frost work very well in raids.

    Some PvP feedback I think would also be worthwhile.

    Last night I focused primarily on the second tier talents, the survivability tier; Ice barrier, Blazing Speed and Temporal Shield.

    As far as PvP is concerned, it just seems like nothing can beat Ice Barrier. Temporal Shield is almost completely useless (though, as many of you know, it rocks for PvE), and Blazing speed just needs something more to make it even mildly comparable. I think I've narrowed down the issue to the fact that Ice Barrier works against any type of opponent (melee, casters and hunters) whereas Blazing speed is only really useful against melee.

    As far as specs go, having spent a considerable time PvPing as all three, I can safely say Arcane is a total and complete joke for anything outside of random BG spamming, and given the total nerf to Arcane's burst, even that is not possible anymore (i.e. chaincasting into a target will actually make you go OOM before you kill the target).
    Fire is the surprise entry to the PvP arena for Mages. It has fantastic control and absolutely lethal on demand burst. Frost, as always, is working very well.


    I will try to make a more focused PvP analysis soon. I already have a thread out here going into very fine grain detail into why Arcane PvP has pretty much failed in MoP, but I'd like to do a "why Fire is working" one soon too.


    Your thoughts?

  4. #44
    Herald of the Titans Shangalar's Avatar
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    Fire has been great for PvP most of this expansion, even in some high end 5v5, not sure for the other brackets. On Beta there have been reports that it's great in pvp, but I haven't tested.

    As far as raiding goes, I've tested all three specs on dummies, got 36-37k single target with Frost, 39k as Arcane with NT and Barrage cleave on one additional target (Ironforge) and 46k as Fire with one additional target sucking the dots spread by Inferno Blast.

    Tried Fire in LFR Siege of Wyrmrest, was fun, but it's really easy getting high damage with 32% crit raid buffed plus the multiplier from the spec. Trying to get a Fall of Deathwing queue to try Arcane on Ultraxion, so far all I've been getting is to the last boss where I did 67k.

    My personal opinion is that currently at 85 Fire is the weakest spec regarding complexity. Arcane damage depends on knowing when to hit that extra Blast and when not to and when to time Power, use a mana gem or evocate. Whatever you might feel, Arcane is still the spec that requires the most input from the player. Fire is beyond simple, not that it's ever been complicated. Frost is very very fun and I enjoy the feel of it, but follows a relatively simple pattern which can be picked up really fast using 'Needtoknow' timers.

    I believe that with the addition of Alter Time and level 90 talents, all 3 specs will become even more engaging, especially Frost because I think it will have the most work to do with precisely timing alter time. Arcane will have more to deal with based on the level 90 talents.

    I'm sorry zomgDPS, but I really can't agree with your continuous bashing of Arcane. Your comments are just not what I see and do in practice.

    ____

    EDIT: I know that Fire is currently top of the three specs, most of my comment is not about numbers.
    Last edited by Shangalar; 2012-08-29 at 09:22 PM.

  5. #45
    I just solo cleared all coilfang instances in Outland as Frost. (a) AoE loot rules (b) Frozen Orb is OP, you can just pull the entire instance, throw one of those, profit!

  6. #46
    Loving my afflock so far. Got so sick of ignorant people bitchin' about low DPS on trash. Afflocks were always low on trash, high on bosses. The trash DPS is way up, just hope we didn't sacrifice too much on bosses.

  7. #47
    The Undying Wildtree's Avatar
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    but but but.. we're in the mages section.... whats a lock doin here? blasphemy!!!

  8. #48
    Wrong thread
    Last edited by Zavri; 2012-08-29 at 09:19 PM.

  9. #49
    Herald of the Titans Shangalar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zavri View Post
    Tried Arcane with a high mana conserve, was only able to sustain 45-50k dps on LFR ultraxion.

    Had a ridiculous amount of mastery too, 48% I believe.
    How were these 45-50k compared to the other people in the group and compared to how you performed before the patch?

  10. #50
    Eh posted in the wrong thread, meant to post in the arcane one.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Asmodias View Post
    I played around with Frost last night.

    I haven't done any reforging at this point, my stats are: (I need to turn a crap load of that mastery into haste...)

    SP: 10466
    Haste: 13.18%
    Hit: 16.60%
    Crit: 18.78%
    Mastery: 37.44%

    Link to gear: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...smodias/simple

    I was very surprised. Just fooling around I was doing 45-50k. Ran with Nether Tempest to start with and was pretty bad at keeping it up :P

    What really stood out to me... the lack of mana usage. I'm sitting at 105k mana and never dropped bellow 100k. I haven't felt this good about frost since T5.

    My goal for tonight is to mess with Arcane. I have been Arcane (with a couple of deviations to fire) since the start of T6. If it plays anything like frost does, I am really going to enjoy it.
    You should really try frost with frost bomb. The explosion guarentees the brain freeze proc so it gives it more of a "rotation" then just random procs from NT and LB.

  12. #52
    High Overlord Groblje's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zavri View Post
    Reforges should be close to optimal, kinda just winged it since I normally use wowreforge and its down.

    Anyways, stats are:

    ( Full BiS + Legendary minus 1 ring )

    Hit: 14.93%
    Crit: 34.51%
    Haste: 18.02%
    Mastery: 19.15%

    Stats are with molten armor and arcane brilliance.

    Ran LFR alot tonight

    Ultraxion: 55-63k
    Morchok: 60-68k
    Zonozz: 58-70k

    Could definitely improve inferno blast usage. I think the legendary is eating up heating up procs, which is causing wasted inferno blasts to force a pyro proc.

    Maybe this issue "might" cause the legendary to not be BiS ? Need more testing.

    But so far definite DPS Boost as fire. I played frost a tiny bit but was pretty shit. And Arcane is broken and not usable.
    I don't think that's going to be more of a DPS loss than the overall legendary procs are a DPS gain. Will ofcourse need more testing, but I myself think Dragonwrath will stay BiS.
    Last edited by Groblje; 2012-08-29 at 10:44 PM.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Mage1 View Post
    Still have better stats than you. How are you doing such high dps... only way is from the leg.

    Someone else please try and prove me wrong, but as long as you aren't blind, compare both my stats and his stats and then decide for yourselves why he is doing 54 k + DPS on ultrax and I'm stuck at 40 k.
    just bc you have great gear doesnt mean your good. maybe he is just better then you. anyways you sound really really mad bro

  14. #54
    Some more PvP feedback.

    I extensively tried Fire vs Arcane in PvP. Fire wins hands down no contest. It beats Arcane in every single category.

    In general, Arcane just has no answer to the sheer amount of pressure and burst Fire can put out on demand and at will. The fact that Fire's burst can be executed while also being totally mobile is just icing on the cake.

    Relative to fire, Arcane takes what seems like YEARS to 'ramp up' its burst. But the real nail in Arcane PvP coffin is the not only the fact that to burst it has to be completely stationary (the only mage spec that needs to do this) or the fact that it takes over 15 seconds of chain casting to actually be at a position to burst, but also the fact that after all that effort, the burst is so very easily shut down.

    Unlike Fire's burst, which comes through a series of instant casts, Arcane needs to stand there and channel a double AM stack, which basically puts a MASSIVE sign on the mage's head saying "interrupt me please". There is just nothing the Arcane mage can do about this. The more I play and the more I compare the more I am baffled on what exactly Blizzard was thinking giving two of the mage specs instants and short duration cooldowns as their method of burst and giving the third the completely unworkable "stand there for ages casting and channeling".

    This would make sense if to facilitate this "stand and channel" method of burst that blizzard actually gave the Arcane mage something that allows him to create an opening where he can do that, but all Arcane mages get is slow, probably the weakest of the 3 specs' spec abilities.


    Anyone else have any PvP feedback?

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