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  1. #81
    Mechagnome Etapicx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcis View Post
    Could it be an indication that in MoP we have to move to spirit-based weapon enchants - if there is such one in MoP?
    Power Torrent was still mostly a regen enchant not a throughtput enchant in cataclysm before MoP pre patch.
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  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Etapicx View Post
    Power Torrent was still mostly a regen enchant not a throughtput enchant in cataclysm before MoP pre patch.
    Hmmm, I wouldn't exactly put it that way. It was still the enchant of choice even when we clearly didn't need regen. It was a solid boost to throughput, just that it was also better than Heartsong, the typical healer regen enchant, for us because of how Revitalize and Innervate worked.

  3. #83
    Mechagnome Etapicx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashrr View Post
    Hmmm, I wouldn't exactly put it that way. It was still the enchant of choice even when we clearly didn't need regen. It was a solid boost to throughput, just that it was also better than Heartsong, the typical healer regen enchant, for us because of how Revitalize and Innervate worked.
    Well of course it increased our throughput but still uncontrollable throughtput procs and healing is no gogo.
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  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Etapicx View Post
    Well of course it increased our throughput but still uncontrollable throughtput procs and healing is no gogo.
    That's the bit I don't agree with For other healers, maybe. For resto druids, it was almost always worth it during progression since we're buffer / support healers. It's a bit like the "crit is RNG" argument and I disagree with that too.

    IMO, any effective healing done by us as support healers is worth it. Power Torrent procs complemented that playstyle in early progression since we weren't overhealing a lot.
    Last edited by Ashrr; 2012-09-29 at 09:27 PM.

  5. #85
    Mechagnome Etapicx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashrr View Post
    That's the bit I don't agree with For other healers, maybe. For resto druids, it was almost always worth it during progression since we're buffer / support healers. It's a bit like the "crit is RNG" argument and I disagree with that too.

    IMO, any effective healing done by us as support healers is worth it. Power Torrent procs complemented that playstyle in early progression since we weren't overhealing a lot.
    Uncontrollable procs for healers are bad because you simply can't control them since the damage can go up and down, And the only playstyle change with picking Power Torrent was to track it together with Innervate CD because during the procs because you would have healed as much as you did with the proc as you would've done without the proc.
    BTW why are we still continuing this discussion Power Torrent is long gone now i hope.
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  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Etapicx View Post
    Uncontrollable procs for healers are bad because you simply can't control them since the damage can go up and down, And the only playstyle change with picking Power Torrent was to track it together with Innervate CD because during the procs because you would have healed as much as you did with the proc as you would've done without the proc.
    BTW why are we still continuing this discussion Power Torrent is long gone now i hope.
    Because the Jade Spirit enchant is pretty much a Power Torrent with an additional Heartsong-like proc only when you're below 25% mana. The other MoP enchant that procs off heals is Windsong which has an extra uncontrollable factor of a random stat (spirit excluded) on procs. Do you feel both of these are useless for the most part?

    I expect to be among the worst geared players during my guild's progress as healers are last priority and we also have a mistweaver. I might stick with Heartsong if I have longevity issues but the moment I feel I'm good on regen, I'm upgrading to a Jade Spirit.

  7. #87
    Fluffy Kitten Myrrar's Avatar
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    Random throughput procs are fine and are better than on-use procs.

    While on-use procs may seem better for healing due to being able to use them at high damage/low mana/bad in general situations, random proc things like PT ended up being a way higher throughput increase overall for the entirety of a fight than any on-use thing is. We never wanted on-use trinks unless they were just really OP at the time, which rarely happened.

    Now, is a mass amount of constant int better than something like PT, ofc.

    PT was best because it gave basically as much regen as Heartsong due to the int, and gave throughput because of the int. It was most definitely a throughput enchant because at the end of a fight it gave a mass amount of overall effective throughput.

    You can only say 'random procs are bad' if you are either claiming straight stats are better or on use is better. Passive stats are ofc better, but not something you will be able to replace a random proc with on trinks or enchants. They are significantly better than on-use.

  8. #88
    Mechagnome Etapicx's Avatar
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    I did not call power torrent bad, I did not say Jade Sprit was bad either, I stated that Power Torrent was used in consideration that it gave more mana regeneration then heartsong hence why Holy Priests Holy Paladin and Resto Shamans (Most off them) Used Heartsong instead because it was a beter option but also for those spec mentioned more mana regen= throughput.
    An uncontrollable proc is worser then a proc you can control because you get the proc right before or right after you really needed that extra healing. I am not saying you should avoid procs but i am saying if it is an option the get something you can control then it's probably a beter idea to take the proc you can control rather then the uncontrollable one. If you don't delay and slack much with your use effect i can't see you losing alot of total healing done.
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  9. #89
    Fluffy Kitten Myrrar's Avatar
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    On-use trinkets are bad for resto druids. The main reason is that you either 1. use them on CD, which equals less overall throughput/bonuses by the end of a fight compared to a passive trink, or 2. Use them in high damage phases but in the end it just doesn't end up equaling the same amount of throughput. (Again, most of the time.)

    If your raid is in danger of people dying during high damage phases 99.9% of the time the difference between a trinket proc wont save them. The only time this isn't the case is something where the whole raid takes a mass amount of damage and you're using aoe heals to get multiple people above a certain mark. While having a nice proc is always good, you don't gear like that. You gear what's going to be most successful for a fight, not hurt your overall effective healing in case someone mouth breath keyboard turns into all the void zones.

    There was almost never a point where on-use trinks were recommended, they always fell behind. This is talking from a min/max standpoint ofc.

    Now, we haven't had this choice for enchants but it's the same idea. Resto shamans used heartsong for mana tide. Holy pallys used PT. Disc priests used PT. And most Holy priests used PT unless they had bad gear. Like us with innervate, timing up shadow fiend with PT procs makes PT and heartsong almost identical total mp5 wise.

  10. #90
    Going by my own testing and having a little chat with Blood Legion's Affinitii, I'll be going absolute full spirit for quite some time during the early raiding of Mists of Pandaria. So many guides and sites say "Have enough Spirit and then focus on Intellect" but I honestly believe in a more full on Spirit approach to the early raid game. We'll see if it's a succesfull approach or not.
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  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Ixuzcc View Post
    Going by my own testing and having a little chat with Blood Legion's Affinitii, I'll be going absolute full spirit for quite some time during the early raiding of Mists of Pandaria. So many guides and sites say "Have enough Spirit and then focus on Intellect" but I honestly believe in a more full on Spirit approach to the early raid game. We'll see if it's a succesfull approach or not.
    Same here. I would take the currently available guides with a grain of salt anyway, like this one, it appears that it will not be seriously maintained (if at all) and still has a bunch of errors people pointed out a month ago...

    In previous expansions the bulk of the guides were supported by material from EJ, and right now the resto druid guide at EJ is in transition.
    Last edited by Sprucelee; 2012-10-01 at 09:35 AM.
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  12. #92
    Fluffy Kitten Myrrar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sprucelee View Post
    Same here. I would take the currently available guides with a grain of salt anyway, like this one, it appears that it will not be seriously maintained (if at all) and still has a bunch of errors people pointed out a month ago...

    In previous expansions the bulk of the guides were supported by material from EJ, and right now the resto druid guide at EJ is in transition.
    I agree. In the past when I wrote the guide I had Hamlet and a few other extremely dedicated theorycrafters who were constantly updating the latest numbers and on top of pretty much everything. It seems all the top rdruids as far as putting knowledge into the community have quit or rerolled. Went from having some of the best theorycrafters in the game to having none.

    Everything has changed a lot, I wouldn't take anyone's advice from blogs or guilds unless they had numbers to back them.

    I agree with the guides on spi though. Ending the fight more than 25% mana is pointless. If you go into a new encounter and see you need more regen, then you change. I would never just stock up on spi and leave it at that. If raids are going to be anything like the past reg modes will be 1-2 shotable, until HMs regen may not even be an issue. So, saying 'have enough spirit' is completely correct. The amount of spirit is just going to be different for everyone.

    Beginning of the expansion I'd always just make sure to have different weapon enchants, trinkets, blah blah in my bags in case I was having mana issues.

    Edit: Raids start this week and this is when we get the most traffic for our guides. I will be going back through all of them and replacing those not active. It was part of the requirements to have their guides up, we need active writers.

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