Way too many abilities.

[Divinespeed]

I think people grossly overstate how important this whole “EJ says this” phenomena really is. The significant majority of raid leaders in the game will accept a player doing something potentially sub-optimal if they’re a committed and attendant raider whose performance is consistent.

This whole attitude of “you do what’s best or GTFO”, and it’s extremely vocal forum cabal, are the root cause of the talent debacle that’s just went live. Most reasonable people simply don’t view the game that way and do so because they like the idea of their guildmates having fun. The breaking point for attendance isn’t whether you’re doing the absolute best you can, it’s whether or not you’re holding the raid back.

Cue somebody saying “you’d never raid with us with that scrub attitude” and my pre-emptive response:

I wouldn’t want to.

Enjoyment and guild camaraderie > Internet bullying and ostracism.

Every. Single. Time.

Exactly what I was getting at, perfect performance doesn't make you any better or worse than the rest of your raid group, so enjoying the game is what you should aim for. Some, like myself, enjoy maximizing their performance and seeing improvements week in and week out. But many others are just there for the conversation, which is fine as well.

[Pua]

Exactly what I was getting at, perfect performance doesn't make you any better or worse than the rest of your raid group, so enjoying the game is what you should aim for. Some, like myself, enjoy maximizing their performance and seeing improvements week in and week out. But many others are just there for the conversation, which is fine as well.

I feel that's a point that I should have made, and I'm glad you brought it up.

It's unfair to imply, which I maybe inadvertantly did, that you either play for "performance" or you play for "fun". The two aren't mutually exclusive, and I know many players who get their most enjoyment out of being the best they can be and playing at the highest level possible. Naturally, a lot of players get absolutely no fun out of raiding with others they feel are holding them back due to not caring quite so much.

And that's okay, it really is. Nobody should feel ostracized by what others want, I'd just like to see a community that supports this view rather than one that bullies others who don't conform.

I hope that's a bit clearer.

[Divinespeed]

I feel that's a point that I should have made, and I'm glad you brought it up.

It's unfair to imply, which I maybe inadvertantly did, that you either play for "performance" or you play for "fun". The two aren't mutually exclusive, and I know many players who get their most enjoyment out of being the best they can be and playing at the highest level possible. Naturally, a lot of players get absolutely no fun out of raiding with others they feel are holding them back due to not caring quite so much.

And that's okay, it really is. Nobody should feel ostracized by what others want, I'd just like to see a community that supports this view rather than one that bullies others who don't conform.

I hope that's a bit clearer.

Yup, totally agree. There are millions of people that play this game with millions of different goals. Whether you come to these forums to figure out how to maximize DPS or how to tame a pink dinosaur because it's cute, we shouldn't judge your reasoning, but rather help you get to achieving your goal.

OT with this post, some are going to say "too many abilities" some are going to say, "it's perfect, it raises the true skill cap of the class" and some are going to say "your bad gtfo, L2Play." If the we get rid of the third, and could stay at a civil community that just discussed the issues at hand, maybe we could come up with solutions to these issues.

[lilatia]

a lot of the extra abilities that clog bars are useless. unless things are changing drastically. slows,snares silence can go bye bye since nobody seems to care about kiting anything anymore.(sad i miss days the glory days of kiting and cc) same with cc abilities people just break cc and really on the healer and tank to keep everyone alive. macroing cds to main abilities takes them off the bar mostly as well. Now will you to MAX dps for the spec this way.? no but so long as you keep up with others dps wise everything else is just for ego, or ocd perfectionists...or heroic progression (actually i debate that last one i feel consistency and planning as a whole raid is far far more important) basically unless you know the situation is going to call for something just ditch them to a secondary bar