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  1. #41
    The Insane Kujako's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danishgirl View Post
    Yep but that's exactly why I don't want FR un-glyphed for the current content. Cause I have Nature's Swiftness with a 1 min CD as a self heal and Might of Ursoc for the HP boost.
    Which is fine. But what you SAID was "I use the glyphed Frenzied, cause I don't want it to empty my entire Rage pool." which is nonsense given how Frenzied Regeneration and the glyph now work.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

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  2. #42
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    if you don't want FR to burn rage you just never use FR, cause whether it is glyphed or unglyphed FR has a rage cost.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Danishgirl View Post
    There's a few things I'd like to clarify; First of all, I do NOT use Maul in my rotation. Cause as we can all agree, the Rage cost is too high and using Maul will be at the expense of your survival abilities.

    I use the glyphed Frenzied, cause I don't want it to empty my entire Rage pool. True that if I just want the extra healing bonus and I'm sitting at 100% HP or very close to 100%, then the glyph is kinda crap. But with Might of Urzoc, Barkskin, Survival Instincts and Savage Defense, I don't really think I'll be using Frenzied all that much. Again, this is in the current content and I'm sure it will change come MoP.

    But we are discussing the abilities in the current content and surviving is really not an issue on any fight in Heroic DS. So I'd much rather prefer to have some more dmg output and that's a bit hard the way all our offensive abilities have a CD and the way our rotation is meant to include defensive abilities like SD and FR.
    Didn't mean for my post to be directed at you, actually, since you seem to be doing well with Guardian. My post was more directed at a very large crowd of people who are playing like it's 4.3 and don't understand why their survival is horrid.

    With respect to FR, you'll use it a LOT more in MoP raids. Whether people glyph it or not will likely depend on playstyle. I will say, like Kujako mentioned, is that unglyphed FR actually uses less rage (unless you use it at 60 rage) than glyphed FR, which has a fixed 60 rage cost. Blizz intends us to use one or the other, not necessarily at the same time, so again... it's personal preference.
    “Society is endangered not by the great profligacy of a few, but by the laxity of morals amongst all.”
    “It's not an endlessly expanding list of rights — the 'right' to education, the 'right' to health care, the 'right' to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. Those aren't rights, those are the rations of slavery — hay and a barn for human cattle.”
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  4. #44
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    can i just say, that bear tanking at level 15 is really problematic. because we only have Mangle, Maul, Growl and Savage Defense. . .

    Oh i can't wait for Level 28 (Thrash and Faerie Fire)

  5. #45
    Cry on your keyboard. You aren't allowed to dps as a guardian until your tears weigh enough to push the keys.

    I went from druid being my absolute favorite character I've ever played in and MMO ever to absolutely fucking despising my tank more than anything on Earth. It doesn't even feel like I'm playing a druid anymore.

    However for Single Target I just spam whatever is off Cooldown (Thrash and Swipe included if Im completely our of Rage)

    That's the other thing, being out of rage is something that happens CONSTANTLY if you want to use Savage Defense, and without Savage Defense, we get absolutely obliterated. We've been 1 healing Ultraxion for nearly 5 months, and this week I was getting obliterated to the point where we had to 2 heal it. The thing I loved about my druid is that in good gear I could gem Agi, use Agi trinkets, and, in general, do lots of DpS while still being an effective tank if I played properly.

    I could rant forever, but I wont. :[

  6. #46
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    your ranting about the fact that you no longer do damage as a tank, right? cause tank really aren't supposed to be doing damage anyway.
    Certainly not anymore.
    Last edited by Grubjuice; 2012-08-30 at 06:51 PM.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grubjuice View Post
    your ranting about the fact that you no longer do damage as a tank, right? cause tank really aren't supposed to be doing damage anyway.
    Certainly not anymore.
    And yet, with Incarnation we now do more then we used to. So Blizzard seems to disagree with your hypothesis. Personally I'm more interested in threat then DPS, but Blizzard has opted to make the terms interchangeable.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

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  8. #48
    In full BiS gear at the end of an expansion, I should be able to do a shitload of DPS. Its that simple. The only reason I continued playing a tank was because I could make small tweaks to my gear and rotation as I got better gear and watch my DPS become better and better.

    Without dps as a tank there is absolutely no drive, whatsoever, to continue tanking for me.

    Sitting there and spamming my absolutely abysmal excuse of a rotation and sitting at the shittiest dps numbers I've seen in years is not conducive to me staying a tank.

    I should also say that our burst dps is fine, its the sustained dps that I find offensively bad.
    Last edited by moveth; 2012-08-30 at 06:55 PM.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danishgirl View Post
    Yep but that's exactly why I don't want FR un-glyphed for the current content. Cause I have Nature's Swiftness with a 1 min CD as a self heal and Might of Ursoc for the HP boost.

    I don't want it to eat my Rage, since that means no Rage for offensive abilities and in the current state of DS, it's just about rushing through as fast as possible tbh.
    It's up to 60 rage. You can use it with 20 rage, 40 rage etc. Think of it this way, the more rage you use on frenzied regen the more it will instantly heal you.
    Last edited by rated; 2012-08-30 at 07:50 PM.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kujako View Post
    And yet, with Incarnation we now do more then we used to. So Blizzard seems to disagree with your hypothesis. Personally I'm more interested in threat then DPS, but Blizzard has opted to make the terms interchangeable.
    That is definitely a threat CD. and so is Berserk

  11. #51
    Without dps as a tank there is absolutely no drive, whatsoever, to continue tanking for me.
    Then you weren't tanking for the right reasons in the first place.

  12. #52
    The Insane Kujako's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grubjuice View Post
    That is definitely a threat CD. and so is Berserk
    Yup. That being said however I'm liking Force of Nature more since it some what makes up for the lack of a secondary taunt ability.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

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  13. #53
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    how are treant's actually working for Guardian? What do they do what do they work on? how durable are they?

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grubjuice View Post
    how are treant's actually working for Guardian? What do they do what do they work on? how durable are they?
    They get 10% of your health each, seem to have a fair amount of armor (they can take quite a few hits), they dont hit hard at all, but they have a taunt. Think of them as being simular to Army of the Dead. So you cast it, pick where the trees will pop-up, and they take over tanking by spamming taunts. They can even be used to take debuff hits like the Madness of Deathwing impales.

    Regrettably the Guardian pets changed late in the beta and I've not seen anyone with updated information as to their specific durability and scaling information. However, from my loose testing, I have yet to see them die while tanking heroic 5 man bosses. So they seem very durable.
    Last edited by Kujako; 2012-08-30 at 08:09 PM.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

    -Kujako-

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kujako View Post
    Which is fine. But what you SAID was "I use the glyphed Frenzied, cause I don't want it to empty my entire Rage pool." which is nonsense given how Frenzied Regeneration and the glyph now work.
    I know what I said and perhaps I worded it wrong. My reason to use the glyph (as already stated several times), is that I want maximum Rage for dmg output. Thinking that the self healing isn't really needed.

    That said, I decided to test an un-glyphed FR and I must admit that it's really nice and that I didn't find myself starved on Rage. But it also meant, that I couldn't squeeze in SD as I did before.

    Now to a funny thing that just happened during Sinestra.

    We went Heroic BoT to get some achs for new raiders and I decided to un-glyph FR to test it better. When Sinestra was at 60%, there were only 4 of us alive. A Prot Paladin, Rogue, Spriest and me on the boss. We 4 manned it with no problems, and I just kept spamming FR and Natures Swiftness, ofc using SI and Barskin as well. Even while doing that, my dmg output was rather crazy. I ended as third on dmg done and second on healing done.

    So I can surely see the upside of an un-glyphed FR. But as Arielle said, it will be encounter based come MoP. Right now I don't really think it will matter much. And regarding our rotation; Well, Thrash does a crap ton of dmg and next after Mangle, it was my second highest dmg ability. I kept my dots rolling, Mangle on every CD and FF when there was nothing else.

    Although I did have moments with nothing to use, I guess it's about perfecting the rotation. That said, I'd still love to see the CD on Lacerate removed

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Kujako View Post
    They get 10% of your health each, seem to have a fair amount of armor (they can take quite a few hits), they dont hit hard at all, but they have a taunt. Think of them as being simular to Army of the Dead. So you cast it, pick where the trees will pop-up, and they take over tanking by spamming taunts. They can even be used to take debuff hits like the Madness of Deathwing impales.
    Unfortunately, at least as of Tuesday (unless it was hotfixed behind the scenes), my treants as Guardian were not taunting boss-level mobs. However, they were taunting the Wing/Arm Tentacles... too bad those aren't tanked and accomplishes nothing. I don't think it's intended for the treants to taunt boss-level mobs, even though it's an actual Taunt they use. Wish it worked for me, though!

    With respect to moveth, I think you're doing something wrong if you're not putting out good damage numbers and constantly out of rage. If you truly are just hitting whatever's off cooldown, that might be your problem. The only offensive ability that costs rage is Maul, and if you use it on CD w/o sufficient rage generation, you'll never have rage for SD/FR. Also, certain abilities have a chance to proc a free Mangle when you use them, making them a priority over others. Also, only auto-attacks and Mangle will generate rage now in terms of damaging abilities, so if you are not making contact with your target, you're not generating rage.

    Also... the Vengeance change is ridiculously good for tank DPS in DS. Since it's based off of unmitigated damage, things like Hour of Twilight and Impale should shoot your Vengeance up to ridiculous levels. My OT on Madness was over 200k AP after Impales, and things melted like butter. I know personally on Ultraxion I was at least at 160k AP from Vengeance at one point, and never did I feel threatened or on the verge of dying.
    Last edited by exochaft; 2012-08-30 at 10:04 PM.
    “Society is endangered not by the great profligacy of a few, but by the laxity of morals amongst all.”
    “It's not an endlessly expanding list of rights — the 'right' to education, the 'right' to health care, the 'right' to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. Those aren't rights, those are the rations of slavery — hay and a barn for human cattle.”
    ― Alexis de Tocqueville

  17. #57
    The Insane Kujako's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    Unfortunately, at least as of Tuesday (unless it was hotfixed behind the scenes), my treants as Guardian were not taunting boss-level mobs. However, they were taunting the Wing/Arm Tentacles... too bad those aren't tanked and accomplishes nothing. I don't think it's intended for the treants to taunt boss-level mobs, even though it's an actual Taunt they use. Wish it worked for me, though!
    Only things I've seen them unable to taunt, are things that cant be taunted... but I've not done any extensive testing as of yet.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

    -Kujako-

  18. #58
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    So I decided to bite the bullet and do what I haven't done since the start of wrath...put maul on my bars and not marco it to my other abilities. Found my rage generation to be even better and that clunky-ness/delay in my rotation is now gone cause I'm using maul during that time lol

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by rated View Post
    So I decided to bite the bullet and do what I haven't done since the start of wrath...put maul on my bars and not marco it to my other abilities. Found my rage generation to be even better and that clunky-ness/delay in my rotation is now gone cause I'm using maul during that time lol
    But maul is not on the global cool-down, so that means you're missing a beat in your rotation unnecessarily. I macro it in, but with a modifier. So I just hold SHIFT during my attack rotation to fire off some mauls. Likewise, ALT fires off Savage Defense.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

    -Kujako-

  20. #60
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    We're doing the same thing, just using a different method to achieve our goal. With that said, you're missing a beat cause you don't use thrash single target ;p

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