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  1. #81
    The Patient Kerfax's Avatar
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    @ Tides I don't have any exact math on the subject, but I think that Jade Spirit is a much stronger proc than Windsong. Even if the way they work is vastly different, the Int and Spirit (When low on mana) seems a lot stronger to me than getting separate Haste/Mastery/Crit buffs.

    @ Brackit I would say to use the tier legs and possibly change back if you feel that the 1000 Spirit will make a huge difference. I don't think the change will be too high since a lot of that is going into Mastery which is very HPM efficient, but keep the Leggings of Sagacious Shadows in your bags for the time being.

  2. #82
    Today is my lucky loot day! Got the 496 chest off Galleon as well! So I was able to make up that 1k spirit after all!!

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Kerfax View Post
    It's a very unique option in my opinion. We have burst AoE healing already (Holy Radiance) and we have strong single target heals that can cover the same area as Stay of Execution. Light's Hammer is a consistent AoE though. None of our other spells do that.
    It's still one of our best aoe spells, I was just saying that they added an extra 30 seconds on the CD. Light's hammer is still too strong. I feel that they should buff the healing on holy prism and execution sentence.
    Last edited by Venism; 2012-11-09 at 03:01 AM.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Venism View Post
    I feel that they should buff the healing on holy prism and execution sentence.
    They can't buff Execution sentence. In order to compete with AoE it would have to be buffed ridiculously. It won't happen. There are PvP ramifications too.

    Holy Prism doesn't necessarily need a straight healing buff. It needs to me a smart heal (currently it heals pets, ghouls, people on full health etc) and probably a range buff to 30 yards etc rather than 10 to get around the positioning requirement a bit.

  5. #85
    thanks a lot, helped me very much!

  6. #86
    Does anyone actually use Sanctified wrath then? I know i do, but i only do LFR at the minute although i might raid a bit once i get a new job in dec. Also, is Holy aveneger better with WoG or Ef? I still personally use SS at the moment.

  7. #87
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    I have not used SW yet, but I feel that it will be incredibly strong once we have access to our four piece bonus. I also think that SW will likely be best for movement heavy periods of consistent damage. It may possibly be my talent of choice for a fight like Lei Shi.

    I find that Holy Avenger is actually best as an AoE burst cd. Using it to chain HP Builder>LoD for the full 15 seconds leads to a lot of AoE healing.

  8. #88
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    From OP

    100 Mastery Rating: 0.00837 / (1+0.1995) = 0.00698, about 0.7% relative healing increase.
    100 Crit Rating: 0.005568 / (1+0.1535) = 0.0048, about 0.48% relative healing increase.
    100 Haste Rating: 0.0078 / (1+0.144) = 0.0068, about 0.68% relative hps increase.
    100 Spellpower: 100 / (10180 + 9000) = 0.0052, about 0.52% relative healing increase.

    Can you provide a link to the post where you got these numbers. Ty.

  9. #89
    The Patient Kerfax's Avatar
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    Didn't realize that the link hadn't posted.
    This is where I found those numbers. They're from a while ago and from Beta, so I'm not entirely sure if they're still completely up to date. I haven't found any new theorycrafting though.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkeeee View Post
    Does anyone actually use Sanctified wrath then? I know i do, but i only do LFR at the minute although i might raid a bit once i get a new job in dec. Also, is Holy aveneger better with WoG or Ef? I still personally use SS at the moment.
    Sanctified Wrath doesn't feel as strong to me as the other 2 options. Divine Purpose, particularly with the pvp 4-set, is one of the most powerful mana conservation tools we have available because it allows us to pull extremely high healing per mana. Combining DP and the 4-set allows us to very nearly go mana-neutral, even while maintaining high healing output.

    Holy Avenger is a better comparison to Wrath since they are both effectively throughput cooldowns. I prefer HA in this case because of 2 things.
    1 - HA gives a larger benefit for AoE healing, since it allows us to go for a HR/LoD rotation while weaving in Daybreak buffed holy shocks. This is one of the most powerful group healing cooldowns in the game, easily competitive with tranquility or healing tide in terms of shear hps (although it is very mana intensive).
    2 - HA has a shorter cd than Avenging Wrath, has a similar duration (18 seconds instead of 20), and provides a larger flat benefit to our healing (30% instead of 20%).

    As for the WoG vs. EF debate, EF is flat out better in almost every situation. Simply because of the way that EF functions (with the HoT being transferred to your beacon target), you can beacon a target, roll EF on the rest of the raid, and your beacon target will receive substantial, steady healing far exceeding what SS is capable of. Basically, the strongest setups right now use Eternal Flame and either run Holy Avenger (build gear to be spirit heavy), or divine purpose with the 4-piece pvp set and run mastery heavy.

  11. #91
    Is there a good site to figure out optimization? MrRobot is telling me Haste yet I'm reading nothing but Mastery on here and I can't find a conclusive answer to which is superior.

  12. #92
    The Patient Kerfax's Avatar
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    Short answer, Mastery is better for HPM and Haste is better for sheer HPS. This has led to most people running Mastery because of the state of regen at the moment.

    As for a site that you can use for optimization, http://wowreforge.com/ is great for helping you maximize your stats. You can alter the stat weights and just set secondary stats numerically higher than others depending on what you want.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Kerfax View Post
    Short answer, Mastery is better for HPM and Haste is better for sheer HPS. This has led to most people running Mastery because of the state of regen at the moment.

    As for a site that you can use for optimization, wowreforge is great for helping you maximize your stats. You can alter the stat weights and just set secondary stats numerically higher than others depending on what you want.
    How should I weight them though? Mr.Robot has Haste at .75 and Mastery at .55. Oddly, reversing them makes the site suggest gemming for pure Haste rather than the opposite.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian23 View Post
    How should I weight them though? Mr.Robot has Haste at .75 and Mastery at .55. Oddly, reversing them makes the site suggest gemming for pure Haste rather than the opposite.
    Brian, askmrrobot.com has haste at 0.55 and mastery at 0.50. Just checked, you probably mixed it with spirit. And if you do reverse the weight it does correctly suggest mastery over haste.

  15. #95
    When it comes to EF vs. SS... in terms of healing comp, I'm a little torn. On the one hand, I love EF... it's new and fun and does a crap ton of healing, wonderful how you can have a few on the raid transferring through beacon, etc. On the other hand, I usually heal with a druid and a monk, and I wonder if SS would be a better choice for the raid. (Should also be mentioned, tanks are druid/dk and there are no other paladins.) I've run both, and while I love seeing big numbers with EF, I just wonder if it's wasted with that particular comp since druids and monks are both strong hot healers.

    Both are obviously viable options, but I wonder which would be more beneficial... SS uptime, or the steady stream of healing through EF + beacon? I've always known that meters aren't the be-all and end-all of healing, but would this be one of those situations where the answer would be to say screw it to ranking as a healer for the sake of the raid?

    This is in a 10 man raid, btw. Thoughts?
    Last edited by Taygete; 2012-11-27 at 01:54 PM.

  16. #96
    The Patient Kerfax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taygete View Post
    When it comes to EF vs. SS... in terms of healing comp, I'm a little torn. On the one hand, I love EF... it's new and fun and does a crap ton of healing, wonderful how you can have a few on the raid transferring through beacon, etc. On the other hand, I usually heal with a druid and a monk, and I wonder if SS would be a better choice for the raid. (Should also be mentioned, tanks are druid/dk and there are no other paladins.) I've run both, and while I love seeing big numbers with EF, I just wonder if it's wasted with that particular comp since druids and monks are both strong hot healers.

    Both are obviously viable options, but I wonder which would be more beneficial... SS uptime, or the steady stream of healing through EF + beacon? I've always known that meters aren't the be-all and end-all of healing, but would this be one of those situations where the answer would be to say screw it to ranking as a healer for the sake of the raid?

    This is in a 10 man raid, btw. Thoughts?
    This is definitely one of the situations where I would say its likely better for your raid progression to go with SS. The monk and druid are both very strong at raid healing, through HoTs specifically, so you're just overlapping their niche. While EF also does decent healing for tanks, it definitely isn't as strong as it could be if you healed your tanks directly and had SS up on the one taking the most damage. I think that for progression fights, specifically fights with high tank damage, you should be running SS and prioritizing tanks to let the other healers do their thing. Once stuff is on farm you can go back to EF to have fun with huge throughput.

  17. #97
    Great guide. I was just wondering if you planned on updating the EF/SS choice based on the bug that is currently haunting EF users and WASN'T fixed in 5.1. I'm talking about the autoattack bug that happens whenever you have 3 or more EFs rolling: it treats these hots as if you were casting, so if you try to autoattack for mana you just stand there looking like a pathetic waste of existence. Today I decided to switch to SS until this mockery of game design is fixed.


  18. #98
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    I hadn't realized about that specific bug, so I'll make sure to add that in. I really don't think it affects EF gameplay very much though. One of the upsides to EF, especially when used alongside the PvP four piece, is extremely mana efficient. This likely more than makes up for not being able to melee.

    I do also know that the PvP 4 piece no longer procs from DP EFs though, so that combination will likely not be used as often.

  19. #99
    I hadn't realized about that specific bug, so I'll make sure to add that in. I really don't think it affects EF gameplay very much though. One of the upsides to EF, especially when used alongside the PvP four piece, is extremely mana efficient. This likely more than makes up for not being able to melee.
    It's not an issue in most fights. I'd just like it noted because on some encounters: ELEGON DRIVES ME CRAZY. You have a lot of dead time after the sparks go down where you can autoattack the pillar, and you can't because you have 5 EFs rolling. Maybe now it's not so bad, but for people that just got into normals that extra bit of mana could be vital.

  20. #100
    Paladin (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)

    Light of Dawn healing has been increased by 5%.
    Holy Prism will now always Heal the 5 closest allies with the lowest health.
    Holy Prism a smart heal?? LoD buff?? *happy dance*

    I might go ahead and go back to SS now... in addition to the whole raid comp thing. More LoD and I can't wait to play with prism again. Not that I don't like our aoe heal, but I loved having prism there where judgement used to be... it just fits nicely. *woohoo*

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