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  1. #141

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Kerfax View Post
    I actually meant that HR is horrible compared to where it was in DS since that was Joy's last experience with Holy. I'm also not saying its terrible, but that is one of the main mindset changes that people have had to get over after DS. So many people tried to heal like we did then and just couldn't be successful because they tried to rely on HR too much.
    Ah yeah, i didnt play pally in DS so I didnt have that problem :P

  3. #143

  4. #144
    Item - Paladin T15 Holy 2P Bonus (New) Increases the healing done by your Daybreak ability by 50%.
    Item - Paladin T15 Holy 4P Bonus (New) Increases the healing transferred to your Beacon of Light target by 20%.
    The new 2pc looks weak. Daybreak usually does pretty terrible % healing, even on AoE fights. I think we will keep hold of the current 4pc until the new 4pc. New 4pc looks decent since typically I find a lot of my healing is done via beacon already.

    The only problem losing the current 4pc from PvE / PvP is that HP generation is going to feel slow again. I still think standard HP generation is too slow, particularly in 10 mans. The new beacon 4pc will encourage us not to not heal the tank so we will lose some ToR HP generation too. Short of lots of stack and heal fights I think HP generation is going to feel really sluggish next tier.

    And my shockadin won't enjoy dropping the current 4pc when doing dailies either.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Pasture View Post
    The new 2pc looks weak. Daybreak usually does pretty terrible % healing, even on AoE fights. I think we will keep hold of the current 4pc until the new 4pc. New 4pc looks decent since typically I find a lot of my healing is done via beacon already.

    The only problem losing the current 4pc from PvE / PvP is that HP generation is going to feel slow again. I still think standard HP generation is too slow, particularly in 10 mans. The new beacon 4pc will encourage us not to not heal the tank so we will lose some ToR HP generation too. Short of lots of stack and heal fights I think HP generation is going to feel really sluggish next tier.

    And my shockadin won't enjoy dropping the current 4pc when doing dailies either.
    If we know blizzard right. its not 50% + 20% its most likly 20% of 50%. I still see both of this t15 set bonuses as weak. Not sure if its worth droping 4pc T14 over. 2 sec on shock is alot of HP reg.

  6. #146
    I also agree that the tier bonuses seem kind of weak. Daybreak does ~3-4% of healing and I don't think more people grouped together causes it heal for more so it's more or less a static 50% increase for a total of 1-2%. Another 20% to beacon of light if the addition is multiplicative granting a total of 60% is also in most cases a mere 3-4% in healing as most beacon healing is around 20%. I'm hoping they will adjust the set bonuses to make our healing better and more interesting to play based on changes to spell mechanics (such as the 4-set T14) rather than relatively minimal base healing output improvements which don't really require increased skill or adjustments in play to utilize.

    Edit: Can't do math.

  7. #147
    The Patient Kerfax's Avatar
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    I'm not entirely sure how I feel about these set bonuses. I think that in the next tier, with more spirit, we will likely cast more HR and get more Daybreak, but its still underwhelming. Beacon on the other hand is a strong amount of static healing. I think that it will likely be stronger than it looks on paper, but my issue with it is that our four piece is completely geared towards single target healing. I'd prefer a four piece that could be used for either single target or aoe healing.

  8. #148
    Been reading abit on holy paladins lately. Mostly I'm looking to do some PvP most likely, on my paladin alt.

    Good basic guide, so thanks for that.

    Now I searched abit around for this, but coulden't seem to find any good macro's that seems like a must have for holy paladin, pve or pvp. If anyone got some insight on usefull macro's or a site for it, feel free to share. I'm currently healing using mouse over and grid, quit simple but it seems okay Maybe I need some other addons to.
    One reason for WoW decline I often hear is that its an old game and naturally people get bored with it. But TV is much older and people still watch that. Surely if a thing you once enjoyed keept staying fun, you would still use it?

  9. #149
    The Patient Kerfax's Avatar
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    I'm not the type to use macros for healing, although I know some people like to Glyph Beacon and then macro Beacon onto their DL and FoL so that any time they cast it they get HP. Its at the cost of the Beacon heals, but it has its upside.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightelfsb View Post
    Now I searched abit around for this, but coulden't seem to find any good macro's that seems like a must have for holy paladin, pve or pvp. If anyone got some insight on usefull macro's or a site for it, feel free to share. I'm currently healing using mouse over and grid, quit simple but it seems okay Maybe I need some other addons to.
    Only one I'd say is essential is if you're not using Glyph of Divine Plea, you should have one to cancel the buff with /cancelaura Divine Plea, you can put that in your main DP button or have it separate, but other than this and the one Kerfax mentioned theres not a lot of beneficial macros for holydins

  11. #151
    Beacon Swapping has been the first thing i started doing when I entered my first heroic dungeons and 10man raids/lfr, and i don't see a reason why paladins shouldn't be doing it.
    The Glyph: Beacon of Light was easy overlooked when MoP first launched, but as i notice when comparing my healing with that of other paladins, does make a difference.
    In reality Beacon of Light not proccing a GCD is a Healing Increase (as it prevents overhealing, and when combined with DL (FoL is just a no-no) gives holy power, wich in turn makes for more Light of Dawn's (and procs through Devine Purpose) increases your healing done (I can make a complicated math line explaining it is more beneficial then the 50% healing it would otherwise do to your beaconed target, but i'll spare you that).

    Especially when combined with the Talent : Unbreakable Spirit and Glyph : Divinity, the above becomes even more self explainable (you want as much holy power generation as possible).

    Looking at the T15 2p and 4p bonus i think Blizzard is trying to tell us something, strenghtening all the things i've said earlier even more.
    I think people underestemate the 2p bonus in combination with the 4p bonus. Daybreak already effectivly doubles your HS and with the added bonusses becomes even more.
    Although i have to agree that the T15 bonusses push you towards a certain rotation/spec, while the T14 don't, they are pushing us towards using more group healing instead of single target healing (might have to do with the upcoming encounters perhaps?)
    Last edited by skuzzie; 2013-01-15 at 04:05 PM.

  12. #152
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skuzzie View Post
    Especially when combined with the Talent : Unbreakable Spirit and Glyph : Divinity, the above becomes even more self explainable (you want as much holy power generation as possible).
    ???

    Quote Originally Posted by skuzzie View Post
    Daybreak already effectivly doubles your WoG/EF and with the added bonusses becomes even more.
    What are you talking about?

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    ???
    Unbreakbale Spirit and Divinity work well together, and by increasing the holy power generation (and spendation) makes your LoH and Divine Shield (which lets you hand of Sacrifice the MT again) available again fast


    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    What are you talking about?
    I have mistaken myself here, will edit it out of my post. I was confusing myself with something else.
    It ofcorse should have been HS, and not the WoG/EF
    Last edited by skuzzie; 2013-01-15 at 04:05 PM.

  14. #154
    I could potentially be wrong, but doesn't Daybreak proc only off HR?

  15. #155
    It procs on your first HS you cast, after indeed having cast HR

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by skuzzie View Post
    Although i have to agree that the T15 bonusses push you towards a certain rotation/spec, while the T14 don't, they are pushing us towards using more group healing instead of single target healing (might have to do with the upcoming encounters perhaps?)
    I have a hard time understanding this. In my mind, the T14 4pc pushes us towards a "rotation" much more than the T15 bonuses with a 4second Holy Shock cooldown. I'm not sure how additional Daybreak healing and Beacon transfer "push" us into a rotation, but I would like to hear why you think that's the case.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Dubalicious View Post
    I have a hard time understanding this. In my mind, the T14 4pc pushes us towards a "rotation" much more than the T15 bonuses with a 4second Holy Shock cooldown. I'm not sure how additional Daybreak healing and Beacon transfer "push" us into a rotation, but I would like to hear why you think that's the case.
    HS is not in a rotation, you just use it every time its up, shortening the cooldown is a healing increase, and well the reduced mana cost on HR is nice and all, mana cost reduction doesn't 'force" you into using it more. While T15 forces you to use HR because the daybreak bonus is a healing increase, and worth using (mana cost reduction isn't an incentive to use the abilitie more often, as it still doesn't increase your healing output, it just makes it more bareable to do) and well the 4p bonus combined with the 2p bonus makes it so you 'do' want to swap your beacon around more, instead of keeping it on the same target only for it to go into overhealing.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by skuzzie View Post
    While T15 forces you to use HR because the daybreak bonus is a healing increase, and worth using (mana cost reduction isn't an incentive to use the abilitie more often, as it still doesn't increase your healing output, it just makes it more bareable to do)
    I disagree entirely. T15 doesn't force you to use HR at all. If it is suitable to use HR then you will use it anyway. If it isn't suitable then you won't, because if it isn't suitable to use HR then it isn't suitable to use Daybreak either. They both rely on a stacked group.

    In short, the 2pc doesn't force you to use more HR. It won't change our HR usage at all. We'll just get a small bonus to our AoE healing when we're in a situation where we can use HR.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Pasture View Post
    I disagree entirely. T15 doesn't force you to use HR at all. If it is suitable to use HR then you will use it anyway. If it isn't suitable then you won't, because if it isn't suitable to use HR then it isn't suitable to use Daybreak either. They both rely on a stacked group.

    In short, the 2pc doesn't force you to use more HR. It won't change our HR usage at all. We'll just get a small bonus to our AoE healing when we're in a situation where we can use HR.
    If you call 50% small . I already use HR alot on our melee group, or stacked ranged group.the mana cost realy isn't an issue. And i can safely say HR will stay in my rotation, and probably make into others aswell, especially as mana becomes less of an issue for players.

  20. #160
    The mana cost of HR is not the only problem with using HR in a situation where there are are not many people close together. We rely on the beacon to keep the tank up and if the HR transfer to the beacon is only that of healing 1-2 people, then we are potentially putting him in a bad place, something similar to using holy light when the tank is taking heavy damage. Daybreak at most takes up to 5% or so of our healing so a 50% increase to 5% can be considered not as attractive as some of the other T15 set bonuses we've seen.

    It seems to be like Blizzard has tried to adjust our AoE healing many different ways T14 bonus, T15 bonus, smart heal to HP, LoD increase. None of them have been extremely attractive and in fact the 2-set T15 bonus could end up providing a similar amount of healing as the change to LoD (which came in a patch). This is not to say we don't have other methods to fall back on or that HR is weak, which it's not in grouped situations. I could think of some better set bonuses than static increases on healing such as making Daybreak a smart heal on nearest X targets (currently heals everything within 10 yards), increasing the radius on HR not to the extent that it would replace our single target heals but enough that basic raid mechanics such as spreading 8 yards which is required on some bosses does not prohibit usage of it for mana efficiency/utility reasons. If they want get us latched off our beloved T14 4-set, they're going to make more appealing.

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